Another "thinking to quit PhD" thread

[Tall Chai Latte]

Dear Forum,

 

I am considering leaving my PhD.

 

I've written about my situation before (see ), so long story short, I am half way into my third year and already a PhD candidate, and just within the past month my projects started to take off, new funds coming in, new collaboration formed, etc. But I cannot pretend anymore: I am not learning anything new. I may be in a different field and learning a different set of general knowledge, but I am not learning any new techniques. My projects are designed to "fully utilize" my background and techniques I already know how to do, which are technologies PI wants to have in the lab (not her strength). As time goes on, it seems that there is no sign of switching me closer to what the lab is good at. In fact, the lab is so interdisciplinary that there isn't really a core technology we claim to be an expert in. There is someone working on cell lines, basic biochemistry, biophysics, mouse models... Majority of which is not the PI's expertise. I insisted on letting me go and get trainings for my projects, it took months for her to finally agree. There are some days when she is in a good mood, working with her is great, and other days, everything you do is just plain wrong -- you are just never fast and productive enough by her standards. 

 

I fully understand that my PI shoulders a lot of responsibility as the head of the lab. Being a female and a professor at the same time is a difficult task in itself, so I don't want to blame her for being pushy or less mentor-y. After all, I am responsible for my learning. But at the same time, I am just slaving away -- without gaining anything significant. I have two big and two small projects rotating around, each project is different enough if one of them works out, it could change the direction of my thesis (so I have no thesis committee at this point). I feel really behind compared to other students in my cohort.

 

At this moment, I don't see myself going for a academic career. Does anyone have a good suggestion about how to leave, because I am now the only grad student in the lab? Is there another perspective I should think about before I spill the beans to higher-ups? 

 

Thanks guys. Any advice is appreciated. 

[Dal PhDer]

I was at your point and considered leaving. I had a talk with my advisor to let him know how unhappy I was and my options. I think there are several things you can do before you actually quit quit.

 

I would first talk to your advisor and let her know what you're thinking. Sure this might be difficult..but, if you do decide to leave, it won't be out in left field. This also gives her the opportunity to talk with you about what YOU really want out of the PhD. Since you're not solidified into a dissertation, it sounds like you have the opportunity to perhaps change projects? Maybe even labs? As hard as it is, I might feel her out, and just let her know what you really want out of the program/degree, and that if you can't get it, you're thinking of leaving.

 

I would also talk to your graduate coordinator. I went to mine, and it was a confidential talk. She really helped me shift through why I was unhappy. Was it that I don't want to do research? or perhaps it was my topic, or my environment. There are many things that can contribute to a bad experience, and make you not want to continue, but you are so far in and have accomplished so much, that you should really consider if it's the PhD that you are not enjoying, or the situational/circumstantial variables that are the cause of your unhappiness.

 

I would also go to a career counsellor at your school. They would be able to help you figure out what opportunities you have available what your current education, and what you would have with a PhD. They may also be able to help you with other opportunities that you might not know about.

 

Also, look around on the internet at jobs. This is REALLY what helped me. When I was unhappy and considering my choices, I searched around to see what I could do with my current education, what jobs were out there that I like (and what I needed for them), and where my PhD could take me. This did a few things for me: (a) solidified for me that a PhD was what I wanted, ( showed me that I had many more opportunities with my PhD than my Masters, and © scared the shit out of me!

 

Having gone through these emotions of not wanting to continue and feeling like it's a waste of time, I know what it's like- you just want to get the weight off your shoulders and leave. But I would REALLY recommend talking to the above people, and taking two weeks off where you do NO work...you don't think about it, you don't stress about it, and you don't care about it. Give yourself some time to clear your head and think. Then go back and reassess. It'll let your emotions ease, and you can really figure out what you want to do.

 

Also, another way to think about your PhD is that it's a means to an end. I know it's not the BEST way to think about it, but it's true. A professor I really respect told me that. He said that really, it's just one tiny step in your entire career- so think about the bigger picture. You might not be learning something new now, but your PhD may be the step you need to get you into a position to learn new things, to do new things, and to do what you want. I think a lot of students put weight on their PhD, in that they believe it has to be a profound process with some earth shattering outcome- but, at least in my area, it's really just a hoop you have to jump through to begin your career in doing what you love.

 

Take care, and if you ever need to chat- PM me!

 

Good luck! And know that in the end, whatever choice you make, if you make it for yourself, is the right choice. 

[fuzzylogician]

Following up on something Dal PhDer said, I think it's very healthy to think of a PhD as a means to an end -- the end being getting a job, academic or otherwise. To that end, you may need to develop certain skills or to obtain a certain formal level of education in the form of a graduate degree. So you need to ask yourself if you need a PhD in order to obtain the skills or formal education that is required for the job you hope to get after you graduate. If so, then despite it not being ideal, since you're mid-way through your third year and past the difficult course stage (and quals?) I'd say it's worth sticking it out. If you quit, you won't try this again and you're essentially blocking off the avenues that you could go down with the PhD.

 

It sounds to me like you're doing perfectly fine in your program - you have several ongoing projects that could produce your dissertation research and you have all the necessary skills to carry a project through to fruition. Although I understand that you would like to learn new skills, I think it may be helpful to reassess why that is so; you have a strong footing in a certain area in your lab where you can be a leader, and it appears that you are given freedom by your PI to work within those areas -- why not embrace that with both arms and run with it? You could produce a good thesis, graduate and move on quickly. Why do you need to go into new areas that you're not familiar with? That's likely to set you back in your work. Maybe it's time to zero in on the project that your dissertation is likeliest to be based on, and work on getting it to an advanced stage? I guess I'm just not sure why you have this need to go outside your comfort zone to learn new techniques at this point in your career or why you think that working within what you know is "not learning anything new," as you write.

[Tall Chai Latte]

Thanks Fuzzy and Dal PhDer for your replies. I guess the whole "I'm not learning anything new" is just my emotion talking, because I'm a little tired about being in school for so long. My advisor does give me a lot of freedom to work in the assigned areas, and the projects are played to my strength. Although the science is taking off, I found myself not wanting to do research anymore, or at least not wanting a research career in the future for the lack of financial stability. This is when I realize PhD is no longer a necessity for me. With my extensive bench experience, I do see myself having a career in medical laboratory science, and being a practical person and science lover, this probably fits me better.

 

If I continue on, I will inevitably have to do a post doc (a short one) before quitting academia. How do I start having this kind of conversation with my advisor, when everything is apparently going well?

[Dal PhDer]

To comment on the 'learning new stuff' topic...I've been in that thought and let it weigh me down...but came to the realization that your PhD isn't so much a process to learn new things, but it's a process about really honing in on your skills and becoming an expert in one area. Now, I am coming from a social science background, where I'm really referring to content areas...perhaps in a life sciences it's different...but in the end, maybe think not about what new things you can be learning, but if there is anything left to learn in what you already know...that sounds like a fortune cookie quote.

[Tall Chai Latte]

Haha, it does sound like a fortune cookie quote, "think not about what new things you can be learning, but anything left to learn in what you already know". 

[Eigen]

I wouldn't be so sure that you'll necessarily have to do even a short post-doc, if you want to leave academia. I've had friends that have gone straight into industry, especially those that made connections while in grad school. 

 

I really do understand where you're coming from- my situation is very much the opposite. I'm learning lots of new things, but none directly tied to my research, nor is it really going anywhere. On the upside, I'm learning a lot about how to repair broken instruments. On the downside, until I successfully get them working, my research isn't going anywhere. 

 

I try to take the time when I'm either not making progress, or when I feel like I'm not learning anything new to make myself go learn something new. I keep a notebook of "ideas for the future" in areas I want to branch out into, or could see myself working in when I finish and am looking for a research area of my own. It keeps me reading things that aren't directly related to what I'm doing now, and it challenges me to get out and learn new areas (for me, in chemistry, that's branching out into cell culture techniques and molecular biology) as well as trying to draw connections between new fields and my current one (putting imaging techniques and chemical techniques into biological systems). 

[Tall Chai Latte]

Thanks guys for all the great advice. I've made an appointment with the career center to explore my career options, we'll see how it turns out. Thanks!

[Eigen]

Good luck!

[prettyuff1]

 Good Luck.. I am in the process of leaving now and untangling with my advisor has been the most difficult...

 

 However I came to this decision after months of meeting with a counselor, planning my post grad school options, and sticking it out.  My plan does involve going back to school, but to train another definite job.I recommend taking time off where you don't think about academia/bench work and really think about what you want in life. Is an industry career right for you? what do you want from life? Not just professionally, but family wise, financially how will getting your PhD help you?

 

 I answered those questions and realized that getting a PhD wouldn't help me achieve those goals in the next 10 years.

 Answer those questions for you, or if  you have done them make them clear.. dont let anyone talk you down for doing it.. 

 

 PM me if you want to know how to leave.. It's actually pretty easy