Offer holders, how do you make your final decision?

[rising_star]

imri1986, impossible to answer since it all depends on the cost of living. As in, $15K in Bloomington is way better than $25K in NYC, though the NYC school is offering more on paper.

[imri1986]

rising_star, so what would you say is a good way to calculate whether your funding offer is good or not. if it's about cost of living, is it simply subtracting the amount of rent you would pay during a year or are there more variables to take into account?

[AKACaz]

I'm not currently attending, but I did quite a bit of research on stipends and whether it's 'good' or not definitely depends on your own costs. You'd probably need at least 25-27k to live comfortably in New York, for example. UPenn's is closer to 21k because the costs of living in Philadelphia are that much lower. Calculate the monthly total of your rent, utilities, public transportation and/or car lease/gas, prescriptions, and minimum food costs, multiply it by 12, and that'll be close to your subsistence level. If your stipend exceeds it, all well and good.

 

On another note, my impression is that automatic (i.e. that you're just given and don't need to apply for) summer funding/stipends are pretty rare. If you're offered that, it would at least be a sign of goodwill/desire for you on the part of the department.

[Sio68]

On another note, my impression is that automatic (i.e. that you're just given and don't need to apply for) summer funding/stipends are pretty rare. If you're offered that, it would at least be a sign of goodwill/desire for you on the part of the department.

 

I was wondering about this too. From what I've read, automatic summer funding seems to be quite the thing! Is this true? I get the impression that it's something that you don't appreciate until you're in the programme, and thus many prospective students don't realise its importance.

[AKACaz]

I'm not entirely sure - probably should have left that to a current student! I came to that conclusion based on a lot of departmental websites - most of them talk about applying for summer funding, or it being contingent upon a good performance in teaching. My boyfriend doesn't get it automatically (he's in his 5th year), though he was accepted off a waitlist...

 

Basically, if you think about it, many places have 9-month stipends. Ergo you either save, or you get to the summer caught out short. Having summer funding automatically in those situations is, if not necessarily a great boon, at least more convenient.

Edited February 11, 2013 by akacentimetre

[pudewen]

On another note, my impression is that automatic (i.e. that you're just given and don't need to apply for) summer funding/stipends are pretty rare. If you're offered that, it would at least be a sign of goodwill/desire for you on the part of the department.

It's not necessarily a sign of anything. At Harvard, we get summer funding automatically for the first two years (though after that you need to apply for things). At several of the top schools (especially private ones), all funding packages are identical, so in general there's no reason to worry about whether a school like Harvard or Princeton is giving you a "good offer" - they're just giving you what they give everyone they admit.

 

Basically, if you think about it, many places have 9-month stipends. Ergo you either save, or you get to the summer caught out short. Having summer funding automatically in those situations is, if not necessarily a great boon, at least more convenient.

 

We actually get 10-month regular stipends (though this probably varies by school), but the basic point is correct. Though if you're planning to go abroad for research/languages over the summer, you end up having to apply for extra funding anyway - at least, I did. For that reason, it's well worth asking current students how easy it is to get funding from the school itself for those sorts of things; it's usually easier (both in terms of chances of getting money and in terms of how much effort applying takes) to get funding when it's commonly available from some program at your university.

[rising_star]

rising_star, so what would you say is a good way to calculate whether your funding offer is good or not. if it's about cost of living, is it simply subtracting the amount of rent you would pay during a year or are there more variables to take into account?

Yes, there are other variables. akacentimetro mentioned a lot of them. But you also need to consider that costs for electricity, food, and household items varies from one location to the next. For example, in Bloomington, you may be able to shop at Wal-Mart/Target fairly easily while in NYC that may not be the case. That could mean you pay $1 for every 4 rolls of toilet paper, which will add up. Also, consider differences in the cost and your use of electricity/heat. I know friends that moved to NYC from places like Pittsburgh and found that their monthly electric more than doubled. If you live in a place where it's cold and dark in the winter, you'll spend a lot of money in those months staying warm and lighting the interior of your abode. Compare that to a Southern/warmer place, where your electric/gas will be the highest in the summer, rather than in the winter.  A good cost of living calculator (and there are some out there) will help you figure out these other costs by making adjustments in these areas for you.

 

Anothe variable is travel. How far/often will you travel to see family/friends? Do you have access to a major airport? If not, how much are conference flights likely to cost you?

 

Oh, and here are a few more that are growing in importance. Does your tuition waiver cover fees? If not, how much are fees each semester/year? For example, at my MA institution, grad students paid close to $500 a semester in fees. At my PhD institution, we pay ~$250/semester, though that number has increased every year I've been here (when I came, we paid ~$55/semester). Also, health insurance. What does it cover and how much are you going to pay for it, if at all? If you're female and considering children, you should see how that will be handled. If you have a family, you should investigate how much it will cost to cover them.

[imri1986]

rising_star, thank you for the elaborate response! would you suggest to ask the department all of those questions? (about the additional fees and what the health insurance includes) also does the health insurance programs give usually include dental?

 

akacentimetre, i private messaged you. check it out whenever you can!

[TMP]

Re: summer funding... back to my post the first page.  It is important to ask about students' survival in the summer.

 

This is all truly no different from getting a job when you live on your own and make your own salary.  When you see your stipend, break it down in 12 months, not 9 or 10 and that's your actual income before taxes (unless you're an employee as in being a TA).

 

These are the kinds of questions your parents should be able to answer too, not just us.  In fact, treat this moment as an opportunity to prevent a potential gap with your family.  Talking to my parents about finances made them understand the kind of life I'm living in order to be able to do what I love to do.   They can't relate to my work or relationships with my professors specifically but they can understand the economics and finances of a doctoral education.  I do think giving them a picture of the financial reality of being an academic keeps our relationship strong- they can better appreciate the time I need to invest in my work to get it done including applying for grants and fellowships and the reasons behind my own spending on professionalization.  And why I can't always take vacations when I'd like to or for how long I'd like.

 

Also your family may be able to give you insights that you (or we) might not otherwise have from living on their own for a much longer time.

[CrazyCatLady80]

imri1968 - Don't know if you are from the area, but I have lived in L.A. most of life and have a pretty good idea about cost of living expenses. Live somewhere in The Valley - it is cheapest. Despite getting a lot of money last year, don't expect a huge amount from UCLA. I am guessing it is going to be somewhere between 16-18,000. 

[fossilchick]

I second rising_star on asking about the fees.  Investigate this on the Graduate School's website.  Ask the DGS and/or graduate students in the department, if you're put in touch with them, about other expenses students incur at the university.  At my PhD institution, students on TAship or RAship (virtually all of the PhD students, for their first 4 years) have a tuition waiver that includes health insurance and some of the mandatory fees, but health insurance is mandatory, so once students are off-stipend they are required to purchase the plan at a cost of upwards of $2500 for one person.  But at least they can plan for that eventuality.  I have colleagues at schools where the fees look low, but they are hit with a charge if they want to use the gym, go to the Health Center, get a library card, have a mailbox at school, etc., and they are being nickled and dimed. 

 

Along the lines of summer funding, what, if any, resources does the department or Graduate School have for conference or research travel?  Are there financial awards or prizes that students compete for?  Are there dissertation-finishing fellowships that are controlled by the department or the university?  Does the University have any affiliations that tend to get their students awards?  (For instance, a historical society that has an award just for a doctoral student from that university working in the collections.)  If a school has a weaker funding offer but funds their students through summers and/or dissertations, it might look like less money up front but pay out more overall.  Believe me, you will want that when you are a year from finishing!

[rising_star]

imri, you could probably find information on tuition, fees, and health insurance on the university's webpages but, I guess you could ask the department. I wouldn't bother but that's only because a bit of googling for the information would take less than 5 minutes.

[GuitarSlayer]

For me, it comes down to how enthusiastic the POI is about my topic and me, but also funding.  I rather have someone who is super supportive of me than a financial package with all the bells and whistles.  I've worked full time while doing the masters, and while I would prefer not to do that again, it's not the worst thing in the world.  Health insurance is a big deal.  Funding opportunities in the summer as well as job positions on campus or otherwise also is worth considering. 

 

That said, I don't want to be saddled with debt for my PhD -  $100-200k debt is not a happy thing, even if your adviser is the most awesome in the world. 

 

Since I do the history gig in late medieval/early modern Europe, having a Medieval Studies center/degree offering there (even if you aren't going to be doing medieval studies as your actual degree) indicates that significant support will be there for me in terms of languages and people in the field.  Same idea for a Renaissance center, Asian studies, etc.  You may not be going for that specific of a field, but you have the resources. 

[Sio68]

I'm thinking a few people might be wondering about the following, and hoping for advice from those in the know!:-

 

How honest should you be about where you stand with applications? I don't mean whether you should talk to your schools about where you want to go, but rather, should you mention to them that you do have other offers? Lots of us might have a good idea about where we want to go but feel like we want to take time to think everything through, and visit a couple of places (after all it's a huge decision). Others might not have received all their decisions yet.

 

Should you be upfront about this?  Or should you just stay quiet, and non-committal? If it's the former, how much detail do you give?

 

I get the impression that very few people jump on the schools straight away and go "I'm coming!!". 

[lafayette]

I'm thinking a few people might be wondering about the following, and hoping for advice from those in the know!:-

 

How honest should you be about where you stand with applications? I don't mean whether you should talk to your schools about where you want to go, but rather, should you mention to them that you do have other offers? Lots of us might have a good idea about where we want to go but feel like we want to take time to think everything through, and visit a couple of places (after all it's a huge decision). Others might not have received all their decisions yet.

 

Should you be upfront about this?  Or should you just stay quiet, and non-committal? If it's the former, how much detail do you give?

 

I get the impression that very few people jump on the schools straight away and go "I'm coming!!". 

Why would you tell them if they don't ask? It might come up during visiting to which you should probably be honest. But I have a feeling most won't ask. I think places know you are musing over choices -- or at least waiting for more results. I think a 'thank you, I'm honored' is merited if a specific POI reaches out to you, but otherwise you don't have to be involved in long discussions (...unless you want to be. Asking questions is for the best).

[New England Nat]

So as someone who will be talking to people visiting month...

 

You should tell people you have other offers because they'll be able to answer your questions easier.  Now i wouldn't say "oh i've already decided against you i'm just wasting your time and money by indulging this visit."  But I know i certainly told someone last year they should take offer to go work with Richard White at Stanford and I know people who got told to go to Harvard at our visit.  Especially with the current grad students, they don't have a bone in if you come or not.

 

Though I'm liking Lafayette enough that I want her to come  

[Sio68]

Thank-you both, this is really helpful.

 

I don't really want to bring it up voluntarily but there are a few situations on the horizon where I might have to just fess up. One is that I think it could come up on visit days and wanted to make sure that honesty is generally the best policy- I hadn't thought that grad students could of course help you to muse over things.

 

The other thing is to do with a funding issue, which is a tad more complex.

 

But thank-you both again!

[New England Nat]

If you aren't comfortable doing it, don't do it, but the grad students will generally be helpful and they will have a better sense of the strengths and weaknesses of the department than you do.

 

But than again i also notoriously last year told someone not to go to grad school at our visiting days because they were rather obsessed with the job market.  If you are that obsessed (and I do think about it) while you are starting grad school you are just going to torture yourself for 6 years.

Edited February 12, 2013 by New England Nat

[TMP]

Thank-you both, this is really helpful.

 

I don't really want to bring it up voluntarily but there are a few situations on the horizon where I might have to just fess up. One is that I think it could come up on visit days and wanted to make sure that honesty is generally the best policy- I hadn't thought that grad students could of course help you to muse over things.

 

The other thing is to do with a funding issue, which is a tad more complex.

 

But thank-you both again!

 

Don't worry.  Grad students are very honest people.  It's the faculty who might not be  That's why I emphasize talking to the DGS, your potential adviser, and grad students.  If the information isn't consistent, double check with original party that told you the info that the second party "revised."  If nothing else, just ask the grad coordinator; s/he is the eyes and ears of the department.

 

I did tell students at both campuses of my offers.  The students were happy but if not a bit envious.. because in these days it is a rarity to have choices!  Do tell them of your funding structures if they're that different.  The students at a school where I had the fancier offer (but they didn't know the precise nature, only the framework of fellowships and TAship years) immediately told me to take the other package... simply because they would love to have that particular structure and did explain to me why it's worth it.  I was quite very surprised considering that these students were attending a bigger brand name university.  Their insights on funding the PhD were invaluable and I still keep their words in my mind.

 

Also ask about teaching load- how many discussion sections?  How many undergraduates each?  Do ask students about their TA-ing experiences- how do the professors handle the TAs' assignments?

[Roxelana]

In addition to all that was said above, I also urge you to look closely at the faculty outside of just your advisor and think ahead to courses you will take and how you might want to craft your generals fields. While it may be a bit difficult to predict, choosing a school that is strong in a subfield you find both interesting and useful for your larger project will not only help mold you as a historian, but also give you options if the unthinkable happens and your advisor leaves. I know some people at other programs who were compelled to drop their programs and follow their advisors or begrudgingly make major changes in their fields due to situations outside of their control.

 

And a note on summer funding: only the luckiest of us have promised summer support for pre-dissertation research and language training. Ask around about the availability of university wide summer funding and get a general feel for how many people in the department apply for and get external fellowships and grants for the summer. Is it an organized system where everyone is aware of their options or a chaotic free for all? 

[CageFree]

In addition to all that was said above, I also urge you to look closely at the faculty outside of just your advisor and think ahead to courses you will take and how you might want to craft your generals fields. While it may be a bit difficult to predict, choosing a school that is strong in a subfield you find both interesting and useful for your larger project will not only help mold you as a historian, but also give you options if the unthinkable happens and your advisor leaves. I know some people at other programs who were compelled to drop their programs and follow their advisors or begrudgingly make major changes in their fields due to situations outside of their control.

 

And a note on summer funding: only the luckiest of us have promised summer support for pre-dissertation research and language training. Ask around about the availability of university wide summer funding and get a general feel for how many people in the department apply for and get external fellowships and grants for the summer. Is it an organized system where everyone is aware of their options or a chaotic free for all? 

 

This. I ended up changing minor fields because I realized that the prof. I was interested in working with for the minor was not a good fit for me, but is the only person in that subfield. I'm not sure I would have picked a different school given the options I had, but it's something to consider.

 

Also, funding for summer can be subfield dependent. In my program, relatively generous summer funding is almost a given for my particular subfield, but it's not so in others.

 

If you have any wiggle room (i.e. can try to improve an offer), I would strongly push for some kind of summer funding guarantee, even if it's for one summer.

Edited February 13, 2013 by CageFree

[bloopbloopbloop]

What are peoples' thoughts on declining an admissions offer before you've heard back from all of the programs to which you applied?  I got into a couple of programs that are low on my list (I applied to too many in the first place) and I'm wondering if I should go ahead and free up a spot for someone else.  At the same time, I feel like it's only fair for me to weigh all of my choices, which would also send the impression that I'm taking all of my offers seriously.  I imagine that might help me to maintain connections with the POIs I'm turning down.  Thoughts?

[erikmoorelaw]

If I receive multiple offers, I am going to take my time and not start declining until I am absolutely certain. Once you say no, you can't take it back, and I always want to leave all of my options open. That said, there are those schools that will trump any other offer I receive on my list, so my decision will be pretty quick. I think it may just depend on what schools you have heard back from. I like the idea of freeing up space for others, though.

[New England Nat]

If you have an offer you know you are going to decline you should go ahead and decline it.  You aren't really weighing your offers.  I even withdrew my applications from some places I knew I wasnt' going to before they could make a decision.

[bloopbloopbloop]

Yeah, after talking to professors at the programs that are on both the high and low ends of my list, they all seem pretty clear on what my top choices are without me having to tell them (eerily so, in fact), so it might be better for me to just decline.  I don't think it will read as that disrespectful to go ahead and decline offers from schools where they already know I'll be a better fit elsewhere.  Thanks!