Make a decision before being offered funding?

[RubyBright]

I have a slight problem. One school has accepted me so far, and I was (am) delighted, but when I asked about funding, I was told that they won't offer TA/RA-ships until people commit to attending. There aren't enough assistantships for the entire incoming cohort, so there's no way to know if I'll be offered one or not. However, this is an out-of-state school, and I can't afford to attend unless given aid... is it normal to be asked to commit when you don't even know if you can afford to attend? How can I politely ask for something more concrete, here? I don't want to sound greedy, but there's a huge difference in financial burden between a tuition waiver + stipend versus no aid at all.

[epsilon]

You don't have to accept the offer until April 15th. I would just sit tight, tell them you are waiting to make a decision until you have all of your options.

[Eigen]

You don't have to accept the offer until April 15th. I would just sit tight, tell them you are waiting to make a decision until you have all of your options.

 

This is not true at all. 

 

First, the April 15th CGS resolution only effects offers of funding, not offers of admission. So it doesn't apply to this situation. 

 

Secondly, a school doesn't have to abide by it, and in fact not all graduate programs are even signatories of the resolution. 

 

You can try to use the CGS resolution to negotiate more time to decide, but it's hardly some set-in-stone rule. 

[misskira]

I wouldn't be able to accept under those conditions.

[RubyBright]

You don't have to accept the offer until April 15th. I would just sit tight, tell them you are waiting to make a decision until you have all of your options.

 

Well, that won't really help. They won't decide whether or not they're offering me funding until I accept - whether it be now, or April.

 

I wouldn't be able to accept under those conditions.

 

That was my first reaction too, but it's starting to look like this might be my only offer... so I'm not sure what to do. 

[iowaguy]

I would just shoot them straight and let them know you're delighted by the offer, but wouldn't be able to afford the program without receiving a TA/RA.  Therefore, you are unable to accept the offer without that guarantee of funding.

 

All of which is true, per your OP.

 

Otherwise, you might end up in an unfunded PhD program...

[selecttext]

do you have a supervisor at that school yet? if so, that is the person to contact 

[RubyBright]

Yes, that's the person I've been talking to.

[LeatherElbows]

I've had a similar offer from a program that asked me to commit well before April 15. It could easily be that such programs can't decide funding packages until later or want a more accurate idea of who is in the recipient pool first. Unfortunately, I am more inclined to think that it is a ploy to get students to commit before they hear from other programs. In this case, I would be very careful about committing.

 

I think you are right to tactfully discuss your funding concerns with your potential advisor. You are being responsible, not greedy. Get their input and take the opportunity to get to know them a bit better. I hope things work out well.

[misskira]

Can they give you any idea on the average funding rate of previous years?  For example, the program I applied to guantees full funding +stiped to all accepted students.  However they don't determine the source of funding until after their cohort is figured out.  Then they match funding sources to candidates based on fit.  They have fellowships, grants, and ta positions as funding.  Another program I looked at boasted that all students for the last 10 years have been fully funded, even though they don't specifically guarantee it.

 

Also, can you find out the rate of funding as you progress?  I would be willing to have some loans my first year as a masters level student with the understanding I would funded for the remaining years.

[Linelei]

I don't have any knowledge or advice to offer you, RubyBright, but I just wanted to say I'm sorry you're dealing with this! It does not sound greedy at all to be worried about money, and you are right that it makes a big difference. Do you know when you'll hear from the other programs you applied to?

[TakeruK]

Like others said, you should say that you can't fully commit right now without full funding information. I think very few grad students are ever offered a stipend large enough that it would be "greedy" to ask for more. Although I understand why some schools have to oversubscribe and can't promise funding until they know who's coming, it's really unfair -- would any of the faculty there have accepted their job offer without salary information? 

 

Sometimes schools ask/probe their candidate students in advance, in hopes of knowing who really wants to go here and who just applied as a "safety" so they can better gauge how many offers to actually make (they won't want to make too few offers and have everyone go elsewhere and then it's too late to get more people to come in).

 

Two big questions are:

 

1. Are they giving you a deadline to reply? 

 

2. Is this your top choice school/program?

 

Scenarios: 

A: If there's no deadline and this isn't a top choice (i.e. you would attend other places if they gave you offers)

Then just sit tight. Let them know that you are still waiting to hear back from other schools and you can't make a decision right now, especially not without financial information. If you're more interested in other places, then having the financial information right now isn't going to make a difference. In the end, if this is your only offer, you can just accept, see what the funding is, and if you don't like it / cannot live on it, then withdraw and apply again next year (or do something else completely -- the idea is that accepting now doesn't mean you're locked in). 

 

B: If there's no deadline but this is your top choice (i.e. you would attend this place if the funding is good enough)

Then you could let them know that you really do want to go there but you can only do so if you are funded. Again, even if you accept the offer now, it is NOT legally binding -- after all you can always drop out of school whenever you want. You might lose any deposits but it's unlikely you have to make deposits until it's time to register for class.

 

C: If there's no deadline but this is one of your top choices (i.e. you are strongly considering this place still)

Then, I think you should wait and see what the other schools say. If you get funded offers elsewhere, tell this school about your offer and see if they can at least make you some kind of promise on funding if you do attend. If you end up not getting in anywhere else, then it's basically the same situation as B.

 

D: If there's a deadline and this isn't a top choice

Then this is probably a safety school for you and you would want to hold onto the offer until you get into somewhere else. So, I would ask for an extension -- they would probably give it to you since I think the main purpose is to weed out people who already know they are going elsewhere. Keep asking for extensions until you hear back positively from a better choice. Once you have a more favoured school, then you can decline this offer. If you don't get in anywhere else OR if they decline your request for extensions, then this is Scenario A -- just accept the offer and withdraw if you don't like the financial package, or if you get into a better school.

 

E: If there's a deadline and this is your top choice, or it's one of your top choices.

Then, I think you should let them know that you are very interested in going to this school and accept their offer. Again, you are not legally obligated to anything so you can withdraw at any time, including after finding out they don't have funding for you if that's the case. Also, if you end up getting accepted to another school that you end up liking better, withdraw from this first school.

 

Basically, the bottom line, I think, is that accepting an offer is not a contract that you have to attend. (Unless it says so when you go to accept but I've not seen that before). The CGS resolution that requires you to go through some process to get out of this first school before accepting an offer from another school doesn't even apply since there is no funded offer here, so the CGS resolution doesn't apply. You would still have to formally withdraw from the original school, but you aren't usually even officially registered as a student until later on in the year. So it might be just as easy as writing a letter to the DGS stating that you no longer wish to attend their program. 

[RubyBright]

Thanks for the advice, all! I applied to four schools. I've been rejected at one, have heard nothing from another (but they're down my list), was waitlisted at my top choice, and this school is my second choice. I tried to make it clear that I really need to know if I'm going to be funded or not, and I was told that I may hear a little more in a couple of weeks. Hopefully they're more forthcoming then. In the meantime, I'm still hoping that I'll make it off the waitlist at my top choice, which would make this a moot point. 

[TakeruK]

Working out the details could mean that they are figuring out exactly how they are going to fund you. Most optimistically, it means that they have nominated you for an internal fellowship/award and that hasn't been decided yet. Maybe profs are trying to fight for their favourite student to get a departmental award. Or maybe you are not involved in the award but depending on who it goes to, it could cause ripple effects downstream in terms of who gets TAs, who gets RAs, etc. It really does sound like you will be fully funded, but exactly how is the question. That's how I would interpret the situation, anyhow!