Not so effective lab communication. How to deal?

[Tall Chai Latte]

I'm in no way thinking less of international students/postdocs. In fact, I think they are pretty awesome and hardworking. On the other hand, I've been living in the US for 10+ years since my middle school days and am probably very americanized. 

 

A little bit on the lab dynamics (I won't disclose the country of origin of others): my Boss Lady is an Asian with no communication problems, so working with her is great. The rest of the lab consists of foreign post docs coming from the same country Boss Lady was originally from, and there's me, the only graduate student. People in the lab tend to speak to each other in their native tongue, and I'm perfectly fine with it. When they talk to me, I usually respond in the same language (also my native language), except when we have to talk about science (I'd be switching to English). Here comes the hard part -- they didn't receive much science education in English. When we communicate with each other, I can't understand a single science term they say, and they are equally confused when I say things in English. 

 

As I mentioned before, I received a big chunk of my formal education in the US, and I feel more comfortable using English on a daily basis. While Boss Lady honors this preference, the rest of the lab just doesn't get it. How do I deal with this situation? With the arrival of another new post doc (also the same asian country), I feel I will be singled out very soon. I will become the only person who can't understand science in whatever language they prefer. One of the newer postdocs stopped talking to me after I told her I would prefer she speaks English, maybe I came off as a bit of a stuck-up??? 

 

Or I'm just looking too much into it? I don't know. Forum, how would you deal?

 

P.S. My school is in the States, up in the North.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Tall Chai Latte

[fuzzylogician]

Well, the best proactive way to solve this problem (that I can come up with) is helping them learn the English terms, and maybe in the process you can also learn some terms in the other language. If you otherwise know the language, simply start writing down terms you don't understand or that you think your colleagues don't know. Find out what they mean, tell them. Rinse, repeat. You probably want to declare that you are doing this and explain it as an effort to improve communication in the lab, and you may want to get your advisor's support in doing this. If spun in a positive light (you want to understand them better, be able to participate more, whatever) then hopefully no one will be offended by you "teaching" them English or them having to teach you basic words in the other language. With your advisor's help, they may also understand that it's important for them to know the English terms if they want to be part of the larger scientific community beyond their lab. But probably part of making this work would involve you learning some of the language they are using, because taking a step in their direction is helpful when you are asking them to take one in your direction.

 

(ignoring discussions of what happens when some people in the lab don't speak the other language at all, and the appropriateness of using other languages in such settings -- concentrating on a low-level solution only. It's hard to stop people who share a language from using it.)

[zapster]

Considering your lab will be pursuing publications in English language journals, can you use that as bait to try and get the others to speak 'science' in English ?

 

It may help to try and speak one-on-one with a couple of postdocs - preferably those who have been around for some time or you know the best and have a discussion with them on whether moving the lab discussions to English (wrt work related issues) will be beneficial to the group at large - try and position this as something that will be productive for the group (e.g. postdocs will move on to other schools where they may not have such a homogeneous environment, publications will be in English, understanding of the subject literature in English might improve - whatever works) rather than this being "your personal preference" ? Raising it as a question rather than asserting your opinion might work better. If you get one or two others to start speaking in English more often, a cascade effect is sure to rub-off on the others.

[Dal PhDer]

Oh gosh. I've never been in a situation where an international student didn't want more experience and help developing their english skills.

 

My question is- how does your advisor talk to them? Do they require them to speak in english or their native tongue? Do you have lab meetings? Are they in english?

 

My own opinion is that you are all at an english speaking school in and english speaking country. As zapster said, they will be required to present, write, discussion, etc. their own work in english, so it's of value to them to know how to do that comfortably- so helping them to learn the terms early, would be useful.

 

I do think that it would be nice for you to help them with this, but at the same time, I feel that it's a big burden to put on you - especially if they're not that particularly motivated to learn english- I think it would be a lot of extra work for you, and might put you in a tough situation with them if it seems like you're coming off as 'teaching' them ...I don't know if what I'm saying is coming off the right way- but I'm just expressing concern for you over this situation- you don't want to get into a worse situation where none of them want to talk to you! (Btw,it seems very silly and childish that the post-doc won't talk to you now...)

 

I think you're in a tough situation, and I would base my next actions on what your supervisor does, and even approach your supervisor and express your concern. I don't know if this is too passive-aggressive *sneaky look*, but could you maybe say 'I'm finding it difficult to talk about the lab's work with the other students as I don't know the terms and content in ______ (their native tongue). Do you have any good reference material that could help me with my ______, so that I can better participate in discussion with them?"  This would at least point you to some material that could help you out, it would present the situation to your advisor without putting anyone in a bad light, and would also show that you're determined/motivated to engage with the other students. 

 

Good luck! Let us know how it turns out!

[iExcelAtMicrosoftPuns]

Everyone else has some very good advice.

But

I'm concerned with why they (whom ever "they" are) only accept post-docs and grad students from a particular country of origin.

Are there no other students who are qualified or interested in this lab? From an outsider looking in; it feels so wrong to compartmentalize a lab by country of origin.

[risingsun11801]

Does your PI speak to everyone else in their native language? If so, she is doing them a great disservice to their careers. I worked for a PI from Asian country and others in the lab were from the same country, but the PI laid down a strict English-only rule at work. I later worked at a different institution and the entire center had an English-only policy. Some still had casual conversations in their native language, but not in front of any faculty and not pertaining to their research. These rules were made for the benefit of trainees, and even people who had their scientific training in their home country and moved to the US a few years ago were able to communicate in English and were taking free pronunciation classes offered by the institution. I would worry more about being in an environment which is not invested in the development of trainee skills. I agree with the above poster- why is everyone in your lab from the same country? This could lead to exploitation of trainees quite easily.

As for advice, I'm not sure what you can do to force others to learn English when they don't seem interested. An option may be to casually mention something to your boss or higher personnel to bring the situation to their attention. I suspect they already know about their poor English speaking skills and don't care either. Sorry for the negativity.

[ak48]

Everyone else has some very good advice.

But

I'm concerned with why they (whom ever "they" are) only accept post-docs and grad students from a particular country of origin.

Are there no other students who are qualified or interested in this lab? From an outsider looking in; it feels so wrong to compartmentalize a lab by country of origin.

 

Just from the odds I'd figure that there are just way more Chinese / Indian people pursuing a STEM PhD, so there's one big factor. Another one is that I know there's a perceived notion (which I disagree with) that, for example, a Chinese Professor will feel more comfortable dealing with Chinese/Chinese-American students because they know the culture s/he comes from.

 

(And to put stereotypes of work ethic aside). 

[Tall Chai Latte]

Whoa, I didn't expect to get this many responses on this matter. Thanks everyone!

 

To answer some of the questions above, my advisor usually initiates conversations in English. The others usually respond in their native tongue, and as the conversation goes, everyone would be talking in the non-English language. As for me, everything is English only because I don't feel terribly comfortable if my advisor speaks to me in *our* native language (not to mention I can only understand science in English). It's great that my advisor respect this and thinks it's important to maintain some English speaking environment in the lab. In the early days of the lab's existence, my advisor did impose the "English-only" rule, but as time went on the rule faded, now everyone just talks in whichever language they are most comfortable with. 

 

Our lab meetings are conducted in English, and everyone presents their work in English. But the overall communication ability is still not very high, as fuzzy mentioned, it's hard to stop people from using a shared language.

 

I don't think we are filtering out potential applicants based on ethnicity/country of origin, it just happens that the post-doctoral applicants for our lab over the years are from the same country. The graduate program is very diverse though, I enjoy my cohort very much. 

[aberrant]

As I mentioned before, I received a big chunk of my formal education in the US, and I feel more comfortable using English on a daily basis. While Boss Lady honors this preference, the rest of the lab just doesn't get it. How do I deal with this situation? With the arrival of another new post doc (also the same asian country), I feel I will be singled out very soon. I will become the only person who can't understand science in whatever language they prefer. One of the newer postdocs stopped talking to me after I told her I would prefer she speaks English, maybe I came off as a bit of a stuck-up??? 

 

Or I'm just looking too much into it? I don't know. Forum, how would you deal?

 

I don't know how did you present yourself to this new postdoc, so I'm unsure if I can answer this particular question. Here is my experience though (ps. I didn't come to the U.S. until 6 years ago, for college.):

 

1. When I was an undergrad, my lab consisted of largely asian researchers even though my advisor isn't. I communicate with a couple others (who are from the same home country) mostly in our mother tongue, but English when we talk about science and when there is at least one person in the lab who doesn't speak our mother tongue. Your concern was reflected by one of my former colleague, that my former advisor asked us to communicate in English at all time during lab work. We did for most of the time, but not quite after work hours and talk about unimportant things. Following the same principle, even if there are one or two of my former colleagues would speak my advisor's mother tongue, my advisor always speak / responds in English when the conversation occurs in the lab.

 

2. Lab that I'm working in: ~75% of the population are native speakers of this official language of my home country (not my mother tongue) including my boss. My boss speaks in English at all time, even though the remaining of the 75% (75% - my boss) of my colleagues communicate in this language when they talk to each other. While I couldn't care less what they talk about in the lab, through one of a couple casual conversations, they understand that 1) I can understand most of the things they said/say, but 2) I prefer to speak in English. Therefore, I openly "invite" them to feel free and speak in their mother tongue have we ever converse, but I would respond in English. My colleagues totally understand where I come from, hence there is no communication problem, especially in science since they have learned specific terms in English (as fuzzylogician questioned/suggested). 

 

I would say focus on your study (science) and screen out things that do not contribute to your work. If situation like this is an issue that bothers you a lot, then bring it to your boss and ask for her advise. If there is a science question that you need to talk to your colleagues, maybe a few words from that language will improve your communication efficiency with them (while help them to learn those words in English).

 

I wouldn't bring race to the follow-up discussion mentioned above. There's not much valid discussion on why one is preferred over the other.

Edited February 27, 2013 by aberrant

[Tall Chai Latte]

Just from the odds I'd figure that there are just way more Chinese / Indian people pursuing a STEM PhD, so there's one big factor. Another one is that I know there's a perceived notion (which I disagree with) that, for example, a Chinese Professor will feel more comfortable dealing with Chinese/Chinese-American students because they know the culture s/he comes from.

 

(And to put stereotypes of work ethic aside). 

 

I disagree with the perceived notion you mentioned as well. Rather, I think it's the opposite -- that an international postdoc will gravitate towards an advisor of the same ethnic background. For the students, they usually go with someone who's very different from their own.

[Tall Chai Latte]

Thanks guys, for all the great advice. Next time, I will take the approach of mixed language usage to make our communication more effective. 

[ak48]

Y'all could end up creating a pidgin specific to your lab. seems like most labs do that with acronyms anyway.