PhD in Social Psychology without BA/MA in Psychology

[troy.princess]

Is it even possible? Do I have any chance at all? 

 

Background: 

I have a BA in Business and an MBA with a major in Marketing and Consumer Behavior, both of them Magna Cum Laude. 

Two years ago I applied to PhD in Consumer Behavior and despite my 5 years experience in research and consulting, 700 in the Gmat test, good letters of recommendation and (I believe) a strong SOP, I was rejected. I believe it was due to my research interests since I was told directly by a professor whom I met with are "not very business school oriented and I would probably be better off applying to Psychology/Sociology". 

 

It took me 2 years to recover from the heartbreak of rejection but I might apply again at the end of this year.  

 

I mainly interested in research of culture and social cognition and implicit/explicit attitudes and although I do not have any degree in psychology, I have a strong background and knowledge in these subjects.

 

I believe I can get a high GRE score. 

 

Officially most programs state that undergrad in Psychology is not required but is recommended.

 

I would like to hear your honest opinions about my chances. It's a dream of mine and I don't want my heart broken again.

 

Thanks!  

 

 

 

[kaister]

It definitely is possible.  So just look at what most psych phd programs require.  You've got the knowledge and fit down already, as it appears in your post.  The next things I would suggest looking into is what your research experience is.  You will definitely need some research experience in a psychology lab or doing psychological type research.  Next will be psych courses, most importantly would be research methods and quantitative skills like a stats course.  I'm not sure what an MBA gives you in terms of research, so you may already have some of things down already.  I know people who have had their masters in education or sociology go into social psych, so realize it is possible to get there from a different discipline.  The most important thing I think will be showing that you have some experience doing psychological research, so that they know you can be successful in that and that after all that you still want to pursue social psych.

Have you looked into organizational psych at all?  A lot of them are housed in the business department but are supervised by professors with their degree in psychology, a lot even social psychology.  Some of my interests are in culture and social cognition as well and in my search I had to let go a couple of professors whose interests matched mine because they were part of the business dept.  Although that's irrelevant if you've already decided to you want a degree specifically in social psych.

[JungWild&Free]

How many programs did you apply to the first time?  Those all seem like great credentials unless you only applied to one program, because PhD programs, especially in such specialities, only take a handful of students or less.  If you only applied to one, then I wouldn't even take that as a sign that you have a bad fit for B-school, but as a sign that you had a bad fit with that program.  There is quite a trend for B-School to be employing social psychologists these days (I work for one at a very highly ranked B-School, I accepted an offer at a psych program affiliated with a highly ranked B-School employing 4+ social psychologists in joint appointments, etc.)  I would think seriously about applying for a marketing PhD where your mentor, and your research, will focus on these consumer behavior interests you have.  Some programs to look at would be Duke Fuqua School, Chicago Booth and University of Michigan's Ross School.  These are just some of the programs I am aware of with large psych tie-ins.  I think this sounds like a great path for you if you are interested because B-Schools value work experience more than psych programs do.  At this point, you would need at least some research experience to be seriously considered at a psych program without a psych degree and you might want to think about the time-line of that committment.  I think you can be successful either way, but you shouldn't rule out B-School in your research. 

[BeingThere]

I think a professor at my school got her PhD in social psych but her undergrad was in marketing.  I concur with what has been said above.  I would add one thing.  Since you don't have a degree in psychology, one objective way to show that you have some knowledge about psychology is to take -- and do well on -- the GRE Psychology subject test.

[mlannie]

I got my BA and MA in linguistics, with a thesis on language in marketing and consumer perception of ambiguous customer service scenarios.  I've been accepted into a Ph.D program in social psych, and they'll likely accept my MA thesis so I can skip the year 2 project.

 

I didn't take the psych subject test.  Don't know if that hurt me or not with other schools.  I definitely got the vibe that my unconventional background was a huge plus at some schools (I was first or second choice for multiple profs at the school I got into) and a big drawback at others (didn't hear back at all from most), so I'd say apply widely and contact POIs as much ahead of time as you can.

 

I did have a psych background to some extent, but not much.  3 semesters in an infant development lab, an undergrad minor, and one graduate class.  I tried to use specifics from the field in my SoP, though, to make it clear I knew the area.  I also had super high GRE scores, which I was told helped.

Edited March 13, 2013 by mlannie

[Peaceful Learner]

On 3/11/2013 at 9:43 PM, troy.princess said:

Is it even possible? Do I have any chance at all? 

 

Background: 

I have a BA in Business and an MBA with a major in Marketing and Consumer Behavior, both of them Magna Cum Laude. 

Two years ago I applied to PhD in Consumer Behavior and despite my 5 years experience in research and consulting, 700 in the Gmat test, good letters of recommendation and (I believe) a strong SOP, I was rejected. I believe it was due to my research interests since I was told directly by a professor whom I met with are "not very business school oriented and I would probably be better off applying to Psychology/Sociology". 

 

It took me 2 years to recover from the heartbreak of rejection but I might apply again at the end of this year.  

 

I mainly interested in research of culture and social cognition and implicit/explicit attitudes and although I do not have any degree in psychology, I have a strong background and knowledge in these subjects.

 

I believe I can get a high GRE score. 

 

Officially most programs state that undergrad in Psychology is not required but is recommended.

 

I would like to hear your honest opinions about my chances. It's a dream of mine and I don't want my heart broken again.

 

Thanks!  

 

       I think you absolutely have a chance mainly because very well respected social psychological scholars are thriving in research fields related to business and consumer behavior, and your experience may be seen as adding something new to their program.  As a result, it will be most important for you to clearly outline your interest in the field of psychology.   From your description, it sounds like social psychology and/or judgment and decision-making programs may suit you well.

 

     Accordingly, it may be beneficial for you to check out the trajectories and research interest of the faculty members in (Please note: Although these programs provide doctoral training in business and behavioral science, the listed faculty all have PhD's in social psychology or a closely related judgment and decision making science) the University of Chicago School of Business and Behavioral Science--(e.g., Eugene Curuso, Nicholas Epley, Jane Risen, Wilhelm Hoffman, Ayelet Fishbach, and Christopher K. Hsee), the Northwestern Kellog School of Business --http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/-- (e.g., Derek Rucker, Galen Bodenhausen--actually in the Psychology department, Ulf Bockenholt), and the Stanford's Graduate School of Business --http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/users/ztormala-- (e.g., Dr. S. Christian Wheeler & Zakarary Tormala).  Overall, the University of Chicago's social psychology program has a lot of the faculty with dual professorship appointments in business and psychology.

 

      I say all this to say that you can take a few approaches.  One approach is that you can use their research interest to make a link in your statement of purpose that illustrates how your interest coincide with social psychology and JDM (and how you've fallen in love with the field, blah blah).  Another approach would be to apply to professors at those or similar business programs who did their doctoral training in psychology.  IMHO, I would look at those social psychologist in the previously listed business programs as a starting point to your faculty and program search as there are wonderful non-business faculty who focus on what you're interested in.  Maybe take a look at Dr. Galen Bodenhausen at Northwestern as he is actually an advising faculty member in social psychology with interests in implicit/explicit, culture, and consumer behavior research (I thinki).  Although you probably already know this and it may not be helpful, also try going to socialpsychology.org. There, you will find PhD program rankings to some of the top programs and links to the faculty's research interests.  As a starting point, I know that  Northwestern, Washington University in St. Louis, University of Chicago, University of Rochester, University of British Columbia, UCLA, and Cal-Berkley have faculty that focus on some of the things that you're interested in.

 

[santei]

I think you are actually more well-equipped than you might think! For my part, I am graduating with a BA in humanities and liberal arts (history and philosophy) with no research experience. I will be attending a research masters in experimental psychology next year at top-5 world school. So as you see, it is definitely not impossible! 

 

Peaceful Learner gave you some really good tips and I mostly agree with them as well. UChicago's program sounds very similar to your research interests that you mentioned. One thing that wasn't yet mentioned though is that if you want to apply to purely psychology/sociology departments (i.e. no behavior/social cognition ones), then it will be harder for you to make a case for how your previous education connects to and enriches your current research goals. Although it may be harder, it may prove to be a great advantage for you if you can clearly connect your interests from your MBA to your current interests. Research in psychology is already quite interdisciplinary and covers a vast area of topics in both quantitative and qualitative research, so your knowledge of and training in some more specific area (such as business and customer related behavior) may be very beneficial to your application. It may even become a deciding factor for some programs where you need to distinguish yourself more from the general applicant pool with background in psychology. 

 

As I said earlier, you (as well as all the other people, who replied to your questions) do actually have backgrounds in some very related disciplines to psychology and sociology. Nowadays even computer science, theoretical physics, or engineering are quite related to some topics within the field of psychology. 

[cogneuropsy]

For my part, I am graduating with a BA in humanities and liberal arts (history and philosophy) with no research experience. I will be attending a research masters in experimental psychology next year at top-5 world school.

 

I'm considering doing something similar. Would you mind sharing which programs you considered and why you chose the one you did?

[troy.princess]

Its definitely possible! I have a BA in Television, Film & Media Studies and decided to change my life around and pursue psychology.

 

Given that my background was devoid of ANY science/psych courses and research, I took nearly a year to take some pre-req psych courses (and paid out of my own pocket) so that I could apply to the M.A. Program at a Cal stat university. I finished all the courses, applied and got in.

 

Come June, I will be graduating with an MA in psych and will start my Ph.D. in neuroscience this fall.

 

That said, I think your experience and goals align well with psych. I know rejections are tough, but keep in mind that most of the time, its not because you weren't good enough. The "fit" of the applicant to the program and faculty also play a large role. To be honest, by GRE scores were abysmal. Yet, I still got in the program due to - and this is IMHO, my strong SOP, letters of rec, and more importantly, the match of my research interests with a particular faculty member.

 

So my advice is, start looking up faculty that share identical/similar research interests as you and email them your inquiries. Although if you lack research experience that's specific to social psych, it may be a better route to go for an MA first. Because the whole point of a general MA in psych is to give you the necessary research experience that's heavily weighted in Ph.D. programs. Things may look tough at the moment, but your hard work will definitely begin to pay off soon enough.

 

Thank you for your kind encouragement! 

 

I wish I could apply to Psych MA's but unfortunately I really don't have the budget to go to an unfunded program. 

[troy.princess]

It definitely is possible.  So just look at what most psych phd programs require.  You've got the knowledge and fit down already, as it appears in your post.  The next things I would suggest looking into is what your research experience is.  You will definitely need some research experience in a psychology lab or doing psychological type research.  Next will be psych courses, most importantly would be research methods and quantitative skills like a stats course.  I'm not sure what an MBA gives you in terms of research, so you may already have some of things down already.  I know people who have had their masters in education or sociology go into social psych, so realize it is possible to get there from a different discipline.  The most important thing I think will be showing that you have some experience doing psychological research, so that they know you can be successful in that and that after all that you still want to pursue social psych.

Have you looked into organizational psych at all?  A lot of them are housed in the business department but are supervised by professors with their degree in psychology, a lot even social psychology.  Some of my interests are in culture and social cognition as well and in my search I had to let go a couple of professors whose interests matched mine because they were part of the business dept.  Although that's irrelevant if you've already decided to you want a degree specifically in social psych.

 

Thank you for your response!

 

My MBA allowed me to develop my research skills by demanding that we do independent research in all of our seminars and projects and I also studied 4 statistics courses and 3 research methods courses during my undergrad and MBA. In addition, I had my own consulting practice where I designed and executed full research projects for my clients in the field of consumer behavior (I'm almost 33, yeah I'm old ). Unfortunately, I did not have the opportunity to work as a research assistant, so I hope that the experience I do have can be enough.

 

 

I really have no experience in the field of organizational psych nor do I feel that my research interests will align with this department interests. I feel that I can be more beneficial to me to do a PhD in pure social sciences even if later I'll stay in consumer behavior. 

[troy.princess]

How many programs did you apply to the first time?  Those all seem like great credentials unless you only applied to one program, because PhD programs, especially in such specialities, only take a handful of students or less.  If you only applied to one, then I wouldn't even take that as a sign that you have a bad fit for B-school, but as a sign that you had a bad fit with that program.  There is quite a trend for B-School to be employing social psychologists these days (I work for one at a very highly ranked B-School, I accepted an offer at a psych program affiliated with a highly ranked B-School employing 4+ social psychologists in joint appointments, etc.)  I would think seriously about applying for a marketing PhD where your mentor, and your research, will focus on these consumer behavior interests you have.  Some programs to look at would be Duke Fuqua School, Chicago Booth and University of Michigan's Ross School.  These are just some of the programs I am aware of with large psych tie-ins.  I think this sounds like a great path for you if you are interested because B-Schools value work experience more than psych programs do.  At this point, you would need at least some research experience to be seriously considered at a psych program without a psych degree and you might want to think about the time-line of that committment.  I think you can be successful either way, but you shouldn't rule out B-School in your research. 

 

I applied to two programs, but I think that only one application was what I consider to be "a good one" since I only wanted to go to this one program. 

 

I'm aware of the trend in business schools but as you said, they employ the social psychologists which means that these people all did their PhD in psychology. It's funny but there is actually more people from pure social sciences background that get accepted to marketing PhD than from a business background. 

 

I read the description of the NYU social psych department and it is like a re-write of my SOP from my past application. 

[troy.princess]

I think a professor at my school got her PhD in social psych but her undergrad was in marketing.  I concur with what has been said above.  I would add one thing.  Since you don't have a degree in psychology, one objective way to show that you have some knowledge about psychology is to take -- and do well on -- the GRE Psychology subject test.

 

This is actually a VERY good idea! 

 

Can you spare any advice how should I prepare for this test? I checked the practice book on the ETS website for the Psych subject GRE and I did know the answers to most of the questions . This was kind of encouraging. 

 

Also, will the departments accept my scores and even look at it even though most of them state it is not required? 

[JungWild&Free]

I applied to two programs, but I think that only one application was what I consider to be "a good one" since I only wanted to go to this one program. 

 

I'm aware of the trend in business schools but as you said, they employ the social psychologists which means that these people all did their PhD in psychology. It's funny but there is actually more people from pure social sciences background that get accepted to marketing PhD than from a business background. 

 

I read the description of the NYU social psych department and it is like a re-write of my SOP from my past application. 

 

One of your problems was probably the amount of applications you put out.  Because a lot of PhD programs only take a handful or students, or less, most people apply to several (I applied to 13!)  So I wouldn't be that discouraged by the first rejection because it sounds like you sort of put all your eggs in one basket. 

 

The trend in B-schools to hire psychologists means that, yes, they did their PhD in psychology.  But consumer behavior is also a social science, and it's much more related to marketing than, say, developmental psych.  There is definitely a trend for people with social backgrounds to go into marketing, but they have to make the same case you will have to going to psych from a marketing background:  why is your experience relevant and why do yo want this degree instead of a consumer behavior degree?  In all reality, the majority of marketing students still come from business backgrounds and less come from social backgrounds.  I don't see either background hurting you in the current climate of inter-connectivity.  And, like I said before, B-schools appreciate business experience way more than psych programs will (unless you worked in some type of social work or charitable capacity).