Professional ambitions outside academia...?

[geitost]

I am not sure if this is the correct forum to post this in, but here is something I am wondering: It seems that the vast majority of students applying to PhD programs in the U.S. as well as the vast majority of those completing their PhDs at U.S. universities go into academia. In Europe, by contrast, it is way more likely for students holding a PhD degree to work for think tanks, the government or civil service, NGOs... (I am talking specifically about the Social Sciences)

 

In the same vein, some people on here have written that some professors tend to be skeptical of/ lukewarm towards students who do not seek a career in academia. Is this a general tendency? How (un)common is it for PhD students to explicitly seek a career outside academia, and are they perceived differently by faculty and their colleagues? And if my goal is not an acadamic career, should I be as upfront about this as possible (e.g. request to work as a research assistant rather than a teaching assistant) or is it best to keep quiet about it?

[tarrman]

Most people definitely do not go into academia in America. There just aren't enough faculty positions available to accommodate all the Ph.D. students. It's much more common to see people go into industry (at least in science and engineering).

In the social sciences, there are definitely fewer jobs in industry for Ph.D.'s, but it depends on your major. I'm sure sure plenty of economists can find work in consulting etc., but I imagine those in history usually end up in academia. Some majors really don't have much use outside of academia.

I've never heard of an advisor getting upset over what the student chooses to do for a career, and I don't think you need to be up front about it.

Edited March 13, 2013 by tarrman

[bamafan]

I am not sure if this is the correct forum to post this in, but here is something I am wondering: It seems that the vast majority of students applying to PhD programs in the U.S. as well as the vast majority of those completing their PhDs at U.S. universities go into academia. In Europe, by contrast, it is way more likely for students holding a PhD degree to work for think tanks, the government or civil service, NGOs... (I am talking specifically about the Social Sciences)

 

In the same vein, some people on here have written that some professors tend to be skeptical of/ lukewarm towards students who do not seek a career in academia. Is this a general tendency? How (un)common is it for PhD students to explicitly seek a career outside academia, and are they perceived differently by faculty and their colleagues? And if my goal is not an acadamic career, should I be as upfront about this as possible (e.g. request to work as a research assistant rather than a teaching assistant) or is it best to keep quiet about it?

 

I'm not sure where you got this idea, but like the above poster said, the majority do NOT end up in academia. Aside from the fact that many people want an additional degree for salary reasons (depending on your field, a BS is a dead end as far as upward mobility without a doctoral degree), academia is so crowded and competitive that you see first-time professors routinely fail to get tenure and drop out. 

 

Of course, it depends on field. I don't want to speak for others, but I imagine in a field such as literature, for instance, the more clearly defined path is academia. But for any of the sciences, incl social sciences, I think industry-bound PhDs outnumber academics significantly.

Edited March 13, 2013 by bamafan

[bamafan]

Also, I've never heard of professors being against someone with a planned future in industry. That doesn't make any sense. Half the professors out there spin off companies that become major players in industry. Of course, they don't want industry necessarily poaching their people, but they realize that after a student graduates, even if they do a post doc, it'll probably be elsewhere. 

[cleverfool]

Also, I've never heard of professors being against someone with a planned future in industry. That doesn't make any sense. Half the professors out there spin off companies that become major players in industry. Of course, they don't want industry necessarily poaching their people, but they realize that after a student graduates, even if they do a post doc, it'll probably be elsewhere. 

While it is true that most people do not going into academia, I have run into a few professors who have told me that they feel like failures if their students don't go into academia (or, that this is the prevailing feeling of the program). I have also had interviews where PIs have been pretty snarky about the quality of work going on in industry and the people who end up there - which is awkward because I currently work in pharma. However, I've also had the opposite - professors who say the like it when students have goals other than academia, because most people will not be able to go that route.

Point being that this prejudice is probably pretty rare anymore, but it definitely still exists.

I would be upfront about your goals, only because that way your adviser can help you figure out what experiences would be most beneficial in helping you get the job you want. And, if you do find one of those people who isn't as supportive of your career goals, you'll want to know as early as possible so you can either switch advisers, or find other guidance within the department.

[alkalifly]

I have asked some of the prospective advisors I am considering working with about this very question.  Across the board, the responses I have gotten are that these professors recognize that academia is not for everyone, and that there are lots of good reasons to pursue work at the Ph.D. level outside of academia.  However, this is in the field of earth sciences, so it may be different in the social sciences or humanities

[pears]

alkalifly, i get the vibe that it's the same in archaeology, at least to some degree. i have no intention of doing anything except "pounding the ground" until i'm too old to work, at which point, i might pursue a law degree (among other things, i'm interested in NAGPRA, native rights, tribal consultation and legal reform, and so on). i really enjoy helping people, and, although academia is an easy route for funding, it just doesn't seem like the right path for me- at least not for a while. i'm sure the reactions depend on both the person and the field of study.

[geitost]

Thanks for your input, everyone. The cases I have read about might have been exceptions or maybe the situation is a little different in my field of study. When I looked at the recent-ish placement records of the schools I applied to, I believe there wasn't a single person who didn't get a position at a university. But you're giving me hope by sharing your own experiences, and I now think that it might be better to bring up my plans sooner rather than later (for the reasons cleverfool mentioned).

[pears]

best of luck! my wager is that you'll be fine- as long as you've got conviction, passion, and good reason behind your plans, it's pretty hard to butt heads with someone who has the confidence to stick with their plans and not flim-flam their way into someone else's.

[abeilles]

Also, I've never heard of professors being against someone with a planned future in industry. That doesn't make any sense. Half the professors out there spin off companies that become major players in industry. Of course, they don't want industry necessarily poaching their people, but they realize that after a student graduates, even if they do a post doc, it'll probably be elsewhere. 

 

I've asked at every interview both what grad students have gone on to do, and what the faculty HOPE that grad students will go on to do. in my experience (within my field), the majority of the faculty I have spoken to have stated that they would like their students to go on to careers at R1 research institutions, while acknowledging that some students may follow other trajectories. there have been a few exceptions (at one university, every faculty member I spoke to said they just want to their students to pursue a career that will make them happy -- a pleasant change!) but on the whole, it's been very academic-focused.