PhD programs in Microbiology/Immunology

[nns91]

I am currently a junior and have started looking into applying for PhD programs this coming fall. I am just wondering if you guys can suggest me some schools that I should be looking at (or range of schools)? I understand that I should talk to my professors for info and I have been doing that. I just want to have some additional input from people who are going through the process or have recently been through the process.  Also, what do you guys look for when looking for programs besides finding a program where you are interested in working with a couple different professors?

My profile is below:
International Student
Small Liberal Arts School
Major: Biology
GPA: Currently 3.695 (Major GPA: 3.82) Bad grade in Orgo I
Research experience: since sophomore year and 3 summers so far. Will have at least one paper published later this year (most likely 2nd author), summer program off campus this summer (mentor has really impressive profile so hopefully if I can show him my ability, I will be able to get a good letter from him)

 

 

Thanks a lot, guys !!!

[mrmolecularbiology]

1) talk to PIs you work with/advisors etc. They should be able to help guide you to the top people/places (keep in mind they will probably be biased to their alma mater)

2) I'm not a big fan of rankings but it is a decent place to start http://graduate-school.phds.org/rankings/immunology ( I Recommend only using the NRC and Research productivity scores)

3) Once you Know the "Top" places begin looking at the labs at theses places and try to find institutions that have many faculty in your specific research area. 

4) Try not to limit yourself geographically: remember graduate school is not forever, so go to the best place for you, location should be secondary. ( The offer I accept was in a state I never intended to live in but I fell in love  with the program and the faculty that are a part of it).

[pombe]

Once you have a couple of potential PIs identified, the NIH RePORTER tool is very helpful when looking at faculty project funding and history.

[nns91]

Thanks a lot for your suggestions, guys. I have been searching for schools using the departments' websites. This way I am able to identify school with departments that I am able to find professors whose research projects I am interested in. However, I am not sure if those schools are too high for me? Is there anyway to gauge my strength base my on current profile? Which range of schools am I decent candidate for?

 

Of course I have been talking to professors and will be talking to more ( I am going to a small school. There is only one microbiologists/immunologists by training and he is so busy with many things so I won't be able to talk to him till next term. He did not even go to grad school in the States). I just want some additional information from another source, specifically from people who are going through the process or have just recently been through it.

[arnds]

As an internatinal student, I think your outlook should differ from the rest. The first thing I looked into a program is how friendly it is for the international student (you can see that by checking out the current students' profile); if there was enough number of international students without a masters degree from US university etc. Next you need to match your credentials with the credentials of the international students already accepted in the program. Following that, if you feel you are competetive enough, then you may proceed to the next level, like checking out if there ae faculty members working on the subject you prefer (like if you are interested only in tumour immunology, it does not make sense to apply to some place where people are working on host immunity to microbes). And finally, but not essentially, contacting a few faculty members beforehand and communicating your interest in joining their lab and getting their response helps; or at least everybody think so. In my case it did not occur. I did not contact any faculty of the two places from where I received acceptance; on the contrary I contacted a faculty member who sounded very enthusiastic about me of a school that rejected me following an interview. So the things are not universal.

[nns91]

Thanks alot guys !!!! Also I have been having this concern for a long time. I did not do well in organic chem (just had a bad term). I do not really plan to go into strict orgo/chemical biology research. Therefore do you guys think having a bad grade in orgo I weakens my application a lot ? I am planning to take biochem next fall.

[nns91]

So I have decided to do some research on programs and have found around 20 programs that I am interested in. For some programs, such as Penn, they have Microbiology in the CAMB while Immunology is by itself. What should I do in those cases ? I know I am interested in both fields, maybe a bit toward immunology so should I apply to the Immunology program and then look for people who are doing microbiology in the program?

 

Here is my list so far. Could you guys provide me some comment? I know I should not let my credentials prevent me from applying to schools that I like but I acknowledge the fact that I need to pass a threshold before I can think about applying to those top schools.

 

 

Harvard

Yale

Princeton

Rockefeller

Weil Cornell

Cornell

Chicago

University of Washington

Penn: 

Columbia

Mount Sinai

Dartmouth

Brown

NYU Sackler

Stony Brook 

Mayo Clinic

Tufts

University of Rochester

University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign

[biotechie]

University of Washington only accepted around 3-5 students for Immunology, this year... and had over 100 applicants. Be careful, there.

 

Since you're interested in Micro/CMB and Immunology, you might consider an interdisciplinary (IDP) program. They sortof let you follow your interests more broadly at the beginning while you're rotating, and then let you specialize as you get into your research. You still have the option to take classes that interest you in all of that school's IDP fields. There are lots of these, but the ones I interviewed at and have experience with are Baylor College of Medicine Interdepartmental Program in CMB and University of Florida IDP in Biomedical Sciences. UF seems to take lots of international students. Baylor takes 15 or so per year for this program, and UF takes upwards of 30 students... or more.

Edited March 26, 2013 by biotechie

[arnds]

I don't wanna sound discouraging, but I think you are aiming too high. If you intend to apply to such high profile schools, you need to have multiple publications, preferably an exposure to the US system of research via summer project over there or something of that sort. In any case, if you don't wanna compromise with the school ranking, you have to increase the number of applications (at least 20). Don't mix yourself with the domestic students who may have similar backgrounds.

[nns91]

I am currently attending an undergraduate institute in the US. I have had experience working in 2 different labs(one I am working in right now and one I worked for a month in high school at a pretty well regarded research university) and will be doing a summer program at a bigger university this summer. I am doing my best to finish lab work for this one paper that will go out probably in either September or October (probably 2nd author). Does it change anything ? 

[biotechie]

On 4/5/2013 at 4:55 PM, nns91 said:

I am currently attending an undergraduate institute in the US. I have had experience working in 2 different labs(one I am working in right now and one I worked for a month in high school at a pretty well regarded research university) and will be doing a summer program at a bigger university this summer. I am doing my best to finish lab work for this one paper that will go out probably in either September or October (probably 2nd author). Does it change anything ? 

 

A month of research in a single lab doesn't really mean much in my opinion; it takes up to 3 months before you get used to the place and actually generate useful data. I would recommend having at least two full years of research experience before applying (more is better!), and if you want into those schools, everything about your application needs to look good. You need strong letters from research advisors, a strong statement of purpose, and a strong research statement. GPA may hurt you unless your GRE is very high. The more publications the better. 

It is okay to apply to schools that are so high ranking, but also pick a couple that you like that are mid-ranked... and like I said before, definitely look at IDP programs!

[nns91]

Before applying, I will have almost 2 years of research experience. I hope to get strong letter from my current research advisor, my academic advisor who knows me on a personal basis, and my upcoming summer advisor. I am working the hardest possible to publish a paper soon (We are finishing up this paper and plan to write it later this summer). I am working in a brand new lab with a new system (have not really been touched for the past 50 years or so) and we have a small lab ( my prof just came to my school last year and I am the only person that has been with him since day one). I don't know if this will make any difference.

 

So I guess my GPA is too low? Right now it is at 3.7. Hopefully, I can pull it to a 3.72 before I apply. So what do you think is a mark for somewhat "decent" gpa? 

 

I am definitely looking into IDP programs. I guess I am just unsure which range of schools should I apply to? Should I just not worry about very good schools as I will stand no chance and focus on mid-ranked schools?

[Isi]

I don't wanna sound discouraging, but I think you are aiming too high. If you intend to apply to such high profile schools, you need to have multiple publications, preferably an exposure to the US system of research via summer project over there or something of that sort. In any case, if you don't wanna compromise with the school ranking, you have to increase the number of applications (at least 20). Don't mix yourself with the domestic students who may have similar backgrounds.

 

You don't need publications for these schools. Of course, they help a lot - but they are not necessary

[Winteriscoming]

I'm an international and I recently got accepted into the IMV program at University of Rochester, but I also applied to Princeton and University of Washington. University of Washington accepts very very few internationals per year, but if you have an outstanding gpa and GRE (being this last one the important one being an international) and your LoR is strong, you can give it a try. But as biotechie said... not the easiest one here. 

Princeton... I really don't know as they simply rejected me, but I guess it's more or less the same: excellent GPA and GRE and you'll have a chance. Maybe the funding issue makes them accept more internationals at Princeton though. 

At Rochester I think it was all about the fit in my case.   They normally take 9-10 new students per year. 

 

Good luck!! 

[nns91]

Thanks a lot for your comment! I actually went to high school in Rochester and did a rotation in the Bio department at University of Rochester when I was a senior in high school. Therefore, I will definitely put UofR on my list. 

 

So I guess with the "excellent" GPA criteria, I am not so qualified at those top schools?

[Gram Neutral]

I know that University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign is very friendly to International students( I go there). Actually, they have like the 2nd most international students out of any University in the US. 

[aberrant]

I know that University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign is very friendly to International students( I go there). Actually, they have like the 2nd most international students out of any University in the US. 

this doesn't sound right to me. i thought it depends on the funding from each department. hence, you can have a department that accept half their students international, while the other department accept 1 out of 30 of their available slots, for example. plus, i'd say the percentage of acceptance from the application pool would be more meaningful than the vaguely called "number" here. after all, we are talking about probability here, aren't we?

 

Thanks a lot for your comment! I actually went to high school in Rochester and did a rotation in the Bio department at University of Rochester when I was a senior in high school. Therefore, I will definitely put UofR on my list. 

 

So I guess with the "excellent" GPA criteria, I am not so qualified at those top schools?

you'll just have to get excellent GRE and GPA, pretty much perfect in a sense, to have a shot in top tier schools / ivy league schools (ivies are not necessarily top, it depends on the field. but they are just as competitive.)

Edited May 7, 2013 by aberrant

[nns91]

Do you have a vague idea of what is an excellent GRE and GPA ? I am just trying to see if I can think about those top schools.

[biotechie]

On 5/6/2013 at 8:49 PM, nns91 said:

Do you have a vague idea of what is an excellent GRE and GPA ? I am just trying to see if I can think about those top schools.

 

I would say that you would need scores better than mine. Research experience is also incredibly important, and can help you if your GPA/GRE isn't quite up to snuff. I'm fairly sure my 6 years of research experience are the only reason I was considered at WashU. I was waitlisted at UCSD and at WashU St. Louis (which was the top in the nation in my program).

To get an idea based on me, and once again, I don't think I would have gotten interviews without my research:

Undergrad GPA: 3.67

Masters GPA: 3.8

GRE Quant: 73rd percentile

GRE Verbal: 73rd percentile

GRE Analytical Writing: 4.5

 

Interviewed and accepted at Baylor College of Medicine and University of Florida (both interdisciplinary in the top 35 schools), invited and declined interview to University of Utah (cell, molec), rejected from UWashington (Immunology only taking 3 students and over 100 applicants), waitlisted at UCSD and WashU St. Louis ( Number 16 and number 1 in biomedical sciences; UCSD called me for an interview from the waitlist after I accepted my other school).

 

Getting the interview also depends on how you portray yourself and how your Letters of Rec portray you. If you had a 4.0 and high GRE but wrote a really lazy, uninformative, and uninteresting personal statement and research statement, you probably would get passed over for the 3.7 student who expresses themselves well and shows their passion for research. Your personal statement and research statements are your chance to draw them in and make them remember you. Make sure your LoR writers know you well and can give you a thoughtful and positive recommendation.

Honestly, you need to worry a ton more about research fit and how you will feel at the school rather than just the name. I know I'm going to get an awesome education, and I'll still be working with people at the top of my field. Don't pick a school based only on the name. Pick somewhere where you can be happy.

[nns91]

Oh definitely, I am looking for research fit, not just the name. I am just worrying about what if I am interested in research that are going on at those "top" schools?

 

I am quite confident with my primary letter of rec since it will be from my research professor. He knows me really well as I am one of his first students. I will definitely work hard on my personal statement to make sure that it stands out.

 

Thanks a lot for your infor though. I really appreciate it!!!!!

[nns91]

So I am trying to specifically narrow down my school list now !!!! I have this one big problem. I know for sure I am interested into microbiology/immunology (slightly more with immunology). However, I don't know how to narrow down my specific interest in the specific field. For example, I find that I am interested in way too many different subfields within immunology (pretty much all of them). I know that I am not a big fan of transplantation immunology. Other than that, I like pretty much anything else: innate immunity, adaptive immunity, immune response to infection (esp viral infection).

 

With these broad ranges of interest, what can I do to narrow down to search specifically for schools? Do you guys have any tip?

[biotechie]

On 6/2/2013 at 10:06 AM, nns91 said:

So I am trying to specifically narrow down my school list now !!!! I have this one big problem. I know for sure I am interested into microbiology/immunology (slightly more with immunology). However, I don't know how to narrow down my specific interest in the specific field. For example, I find that I am interested in way too many different subfields within immunology (pretty much all of them). I know that I am not a big fan of transplantation immunology. Other than that, I like pretty much anything else: innate immunity, adaptive immunity, immune response to infection (esp viral infection).

 

With these broad ranges of interest, what can I do to narrow down to search specifically for schools? Do you guys have any tip?

 

I don't think you need to narrow your interests down, really. I went into my application cycle with an interest in general cell physiology and immunology, with specific interests in epigenetics, transcriptional regulation, cancer, and autoimmune disorders. I'm more cell physiology than immunology, and that's a wide net of interests for that field.

 

What is going to be important is that you show them that you DO have a wide set of interests because not only will that show them that it is likely that you'll be able to find a lab to work in (rather than having interests that are too specific and finding nobody) but also that you should be able to adapt and learn in many lab environments. I don't think that is a terrible problem to have unless it makes you indecisive when it comes to selecting a lab.

 

You've mentioned a few areas of immunology. That may seem broad to you, but it is going to help you in the labs that you'll ultimately be vetting for a place in. Each university is going to have a different sortof "set" of professors. Go into the websites for these schools, and see what the research profile looks like for these professors. Can you find 3 or more that you think you could work under? Do you look at their research and think it is interesting? If you can find that, then keep the school on the list.

 

Then go through the requirements for classes, stipend, living expenses, teaching requirements, location etc. Anything that you can find. Maybe, like me, you don't want to have to worry about classes for more than two years or not getting to take prelims until year 3 of PhD. That might make you think twice about applying to a school.

 

You should be able to rank the schools this way from "best" to "worst" via your own system and independent of the ranking system everyone and the schools will keep telling you about. While going to a "top-ranked" school looks good on your resume, your fit in a program and with the PI you'll ultimately study under is going to have a larger impact on your success. Becoming a good scientist working under an expert in your research area at a #35 school will make you more likely to succeed and get into a good post-doc than going to a #10 school in a lab that doesn't publish or do much. If you can't find a good environment for yourself to work in, rank isn't going to matter. So... I guess what I'm trying to say is rank is a little important, but make sure that you're in the right fit, or you may find yourself struggling.

 

Ideally, you'll end up with a list of at least 6 schools that you still want to apply to. None of them are going to perfectly conform to your list of wants and what you perceive now as needs. You'll realize once you get there that your needs aren't quite what you think they would be, but your school still should fit. The school I'm going to attend has only one year of classes and prelims, then straight into candidacy. The only thing I don't like is that it is in the city (Houston), but I think I will still be happy there.

 

Good luck! Let me know if you want any info on the following, though I might not know about Immuno Specifically:

WashU St. Louis (DBBS)

UW, Seattle (Immuno)

UCSD (Biomed)

Baylor College of Medicine (Cell Bio/Immuno)

University of Florida (IDP Immuno and Cell Bio)

University of Utah (Molecular Bio)

[nns91]

Thanks a lot for your detail answer !!!! The reason I was wondering was because the other day, I went to talk to my micro/immunology professor about grad school stuff. He told me to narrow down my interest before we could pick out schools. He was like, you should know whether you are interested in host defense against bacteria or virus or T cell regulation or B cell regulation or Cancer immunology so on and so forth. Honestly, it is so hard for me to narrow down now. I might have a much better idea when I get to the school and do a few rotations.

 

I know that I prefer host defense against viral infection but I also like T-cell regulation, B-cell regulation, innate, adaptive.... Though I don't plan to go into cancer immunology or transplantation immunology. I still want to learn about those things.

 

I have a long list now of schools (about 18) that I am interested in. I have searched the websites for professors' research interest. One thing I don't know about is how active is their research and how much grant they have? How do I judge these things? In general, how do I know whether a school has active research and a good amount of grant? 

[biotechie]

One thing you can do is go here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed

Type in the professor's full name, and it will list any publication with the professor's name on it, and you should be able to get an idea of how active the lab is by number of publications with the professor listed either first or last author. If they haven't had many (less than 3-5) in the past 5 years, be cautious. If they haven't had any, I'd avoid the lab. Since you're searching them via PubMed, you'll also be able to at least read abstracts of their papers, if not the whole thing. People who are straight microbiology might not be as searchable in this forum.

 

I personally don't know how to see if they have tons of grant money or not, and that might not be something searchable for us. Odds are, if they are publishing often, they're funded.

 

Be careful about wanting to choose your interest when you do rotations... your professor is right. You should have an idea... but you can get that idea based on the research areas and projects these professors are working on that you can look up right now.

Edited June 2, 2013 by biotechie

[nns91]

I think I have a general idea about what I want to do. However, I am not too sure about specific. For example, I know that my interest lies within immune response against viral infection. You think that might be a decent "general idea" about waht I want to do? But I guess your point earlier was keep my options open while still having a specific target ?