Worried about returning to alma mater for PhD

[TheCleve]

Hi all -- long time lurker.

 

After accepting an offer from my undergrad institution, I'm beginning to get nervous about how I'll navigate the new dynamics, and I was hoping for some perspective from academics.

 

So:

 

I decided to accept an offer from my BA Alma Mater -- a top ten (in English) public university -- because, among other things, they courted me pretty heavily, offered me great money, and really are one of the best fit schools I applied to. I wasn't very methodical in my applications, and consequently applied to quite a few schools that are good and brand name, but not particularly suited to my interests. But as August approaches, I'm getting worried about how to gracefully transition back to the same university as a grad students. My worries are as follows:

 

1. I'll be entering the PhD program directly from undergrad with this app cycle year in between, so I'm afraid I'll still be fresh in the faculty's mind as a precocious undergrad rather than as the serious and (hopefully) capable grad student I want to present as.
2. I'm also not sure how to deal with already having established relationships with professors. Most of my strongest relationships are with new, up-and-coming profs, and I was told when I accepted the offer that a few of our department's academic rock stars were particularly struck with my application. I feel like this is a blessing because it means I can branch out in new directions and broaden my intellectual/academic horizons despite the fact that I'll be returning to the same cesspool, so to speak. Luckily the department is large, so there are many faculty members I've never even met, but how do I navigate classes, department social functions, picking advisers  etc.? I feel this irrational aversion to taking any classes taught by profs who know me despite the fact that at least of few of these classes would be most rewarding. Should I avoid them, at least for the first semester until I've established myself?    
3. Finally, my partner, who now attends a different PhD program attended this university for his MA, which is where we met. I got to know his MA cohort pretty well -- the rich and collaborative relationships between grad students in the department being another reason I chose this program -- and a few of the PhDs on a smile-and-wave basis. His cohort is gone, but I'll be returning to the program where I'll kind of know some of the students which feels so much more awkward to me than if I were simply a stranger. I know if I wanted a fresh start I should have accepted a different offer, but is there a way to make a return to old stomping grounds feel like a new adventure?

 

 

TL;DR, I guess I'm asking how to make the transition from the undergrad persona that many of the faculty and students knew me as to a more professional and collegial one?

 

Thanks for any input.

[ComeBackZinc]

Are you worried about the "academic incest" thing? Some people claim that fear is overblown; some people think it's a genuine and deep problem. I dunno, myself, but I'm sure I would worry. The fear, I take it, is that if you've gotten all three degrees from the same school, you've never been assessed by anyone but a small number of individuals, who might be promoting you out of personal regard and obligation rather than your value as a young scholar. I don't really have an opinion myself, but I've heard it talked about a bunch.

[Datatape]

I wouldn't worry too much.  These are the same professors who were on the adcom and who are working to woo you so heavily, so they probably really want the chance to work with you again.  A number of students at my Masters institution made the jump from undergrad to M.A. and they were treated no differently than students like me who got their Bachelors elsewhere.  You will be challenged and pushed more than you ever were in undergrad, no matter who you choose to take classes with.  That is the best way to treat it like a new adventure: you will be going back to a familiar place but with a totally new set of goals and a much more focused educational course.

 

As for going out on the job market, I think it's a legitimate concern.  In all candor, there will probably be a few institutions who toss out your application because of it.  With that being said, while researching schools I have seen a number of professors at all levels, including R1s, who got all their degrees from one institution, so it is by no means a job-killer.  The best thing to do is just let your research and scholarship speak for itself and give them no doubt that the reason University of X brought you back as a PhD student is because of your academic excellence, not because they liked you.

[ComeBackZinc]

As for going out on the job market, I think it's a legitimate concern.  In all candor, there will probably be a few institutions who toss out your application because of it.  

 

That was my fear as well.

[jmu]

I accepted a PhD offer my alma matter as well, though under slightly different circumstances as I only spent the last year and a half of my degree here rather than the whole thing. My department is also fairly large because it is interdisciplinary and I have connections with a few professors already (including having a class this semester with my first year mentor when I start the grad program.) These professors have pushed me harder and offered me a lot of advice because they saw potential in me. They expect more of me because of my relationship with them, I certainly don't expect it to be easier. Like you, there are a number of people in the department who I don't really know and they are people I'm interested in working with. The fact that my professors know what I am capable of means that they will push me harder in my coursework because they know what I am capable of.

 

I applied to the program because it is, by far, the best fit for me of any program in the country and it is the only program of its kind that I know of. I feel that I will develop there better than any other program and if after two years I don't feel that way, I will ask for the master's degree and go somewhere else. I was worried about the idea that my work wouldn't be taken seriously for staying but these were alleviated when people (at multiple schools who are on search committees) told me it's an overblown fear if you are constantly presenting and publishing your work while still in grad school. The same goes for applying for national competitive grants and fellowships and association paper competitions. The more you actually get your work out there the less important it's going to be.

[practical cat]

Are you worried about the "academic incest" thing? Some people claim that fear is overblown; some people think it's a genuine and deep problem. I dunno, myself, but I'm sure I would worry. The fear, I take it, is that if you've gotten all three degrees from the same school, you've never been assessed by anyone but a small number of individuals, who might be promoting you out of personal regard and obligation rather than your value as a young scholar. I don't really have an opinion myself, but I've heard it talked about a bunch.

I'm wondering if this might be less of a concern in the case of the top ten?

[TheCleve]

That was my fear as well.

 

 

I'm wondering if this might be less of a concern in the case of the top ten?

 

I spoke briefly to a Notable Name in our department about just this, and she said something to the effect of, "Oh, that only matters if it's not a good school." Caveat being that she earned her Notable Name a good 20 years ago. I'm out to expand my horizons, and I think putting out enough varied, timely and original work and making connections with people beyond my own department -- which I ought to be doing anyway -- should keep me thinking with an eye to the discipline as a whole.   

 

The job market is what it is, so I'm jumping in banking that I'll do enough good and interesting work which, compounded with program prestige, will neutralize any concerns about academic incest. 

 

 

 

I accepted a PhD offer my alma matter as well, though under slightly different circumstances as I only spent the last year and a half of my degree here rather than the whole thing. My department is also fairly large because it is interdisciplinary and I have connections with a few professors already (including having a class this semester with my first year mentor when I start the grad program.) These professors have pushed me harder and offered me a lot of advice because they saw potential in me. They expect more of me because of my relationship with them, I certainly don't expect it to be easier. Like you, there are a number of people in the department who I don't really know and they are people I'm interested in working with. The fact that my professors know what I am capable of means that they will push me harder in my coursework because they know what I am capable of.

 

I applied to the program because it is, by far, the best fit for me of any program in the country and it is the only program of its kind that I know of. I feel that I will develop there better than any other program and if after two years I don't feel that way, I will ask for the master's degree and go somewhere else. I was worried about the idea that my work wouldn't be taken seriously for staying but these were alleviated when people (at multiple schools who are on search committees) told me it's an overblown fear if you are constantly presenting and publishing your work while still in grad school. The same goes for applying for national competitive grants and fellowships and association paper competitions. The more you actually get your work out there the less important it's going to be.

 

JMU, thanks for this. 

[Two Espressos]

I'm wondering if this might be less of a concern in the case of the top ten?

 

Bingo.  I think it's still better to have degrees from different institutions, as enjoying a wide variety of perspectives and departmental cultures is never a bad thing, but, TheCleve, I don't think getting a Ph.D. at your alma mater would be career suicide by any means.

[KeelyMK]

I've been feeling more stigmatized the more I talk to my school's faculty about staying for my PhD. A couple profs that I've worked with before and would love to work with again are very excited at the prospect of me staying and say that it is the best fit both academically and socially, but when I speak to faculty I haven't yet met or worked with, I'm not met with nearly as warm of a reception. So I'm bummed out at the mixed messages I'm getting- all the professors (except for those excited 2 or 3) have basically, if not explicitly, said "we'd be happy if you stayed, but it's not generally advised". To which my unspoken reply is, well if I'm not supposed to come then why did I get accepted? Blah, I is frustrateds.

[blakeblake]

Don't worry, TheCleve.  I got my BA and my MA at the same institution.  It was a little awkward at first.  There are formalities to navigate (It's "Dr. Smith" to my undergrads, but grad students can call me "Janet.")  Very awkward = one of my former teachers (a TA PhD student with full responsibility for one of my undergrad classes) and I started going to the same parties.  After a month or two, everything falls into place and you get used to things.  Don't be afraid of taking classes with your former undergrad profs.  It will delight them to see your academic and professional progress since you were a wee sophomore.

 

And don't forget: your department hand-picked you to come back for another round because you're awesome, so go out there and give 'em hell!

[isabelarcher]

KeelyMK: Anecdotal evidence but my dept chair (at another UC) has BA/MA/PhD all from Berkeley, too. And she's clearly doing just fine. Maybe more of a concern at smaller, less known schools?

[Whylion]

I know of at least two schools that don't accept applications from their own graduate-- Stanford and Princeton. I guess they mean it when they say its a bad idea to continue your undergraduate institution. Does anyone know of other schools with this policy?

[AurantiacaStella]

I think we shouldn't take well-established profs' success despite the fact that they attended only one school as proof that the same will be true for us. The job market is very different now. In such a competitive field, it's never good to have something on your CV that could get you eliminated from consideration for a job right off the bat.

[jmu]

I think we shouldn't take well-established profs' success despite the fact that they attended only one school as proof that the same will be true for us. The job market is very different now. In such a competitive field, it's never good to have something on your CV that could get you eliminated from consideration for a job right off the bat.

 

If the job market is very different now than it was then, it is going to be even more different still in the next 7-10 years. We should be making decisions based on what will make us the academics, not making concessions in our development for current trends.

[ErnestPWorrell]

do UC schools tend to favor admitting their own students more than the average bear? or is that just my imagination?

[ComeBackZinc]

If the job market is very different now than it was then, it is going to be even more different still in the next 7-10 years. We should be making decisions based on what will make us the academics, not making concessions in our development for current trends.

 

It has to be pointed out that people have been predicting a recovery in the tenure track job market for several decades, and that has never happened.

[lisajay]

do UC schools tend to favor admitting their own students more than the average bear?

 

i think i see what you did there, & i like it.

[isabelarcher]

do UC schools tend to favor admitting their own students more than the average bear? or is that just my imagination?

I kind of think so. I go to a UC, and when I was talking to my advisor w/in my department about grad schools she was like, "And of course you can apply here. You would definitely get in with full funding." Definitely presumptuous of her but still nice to hear.