Advice on awkward situation?

[InquilineKea]

As for my background - I'm an astrophysics major from the University of Washington. There was an AMAZING professor at UW who encouraged me to pursue climate modeling, particularly the climate modeling of planetary atmospheres, and I feel like I almost owe my life to her (and to the UW Atmospheric Science department, which is just SO amazing despite my limited interaction with it). My main research interest is planetary atmospheres - but I'm really starting to realize that I'd now be happy with anything as long as it's highly computational. I wish I had realized this earlier because I wouldn't have gotten screwed out of opportunities I could have had because of this.

 

I'm in a really huge bind right now. Part of it due to my own mistakes that I'll learn from, part of it due to a chain of misfortunes...

 

So last year was a really good year for me. I got into my first choice (UChicago) with a top student fellowship and I also got into Brown. To be honest, I could have gotten into more schools if I wasn't so picky about exoplanets (Yale, Columbia, possibly even MIT). I was interviewed for Yale, but by then I was so certain that I was going to go into Chicago that I didn't bother even trying during interviews (and ended up being too obsessed with exoplanets). And with Columbia, I now realize that my personal statement was so exoplanet-obsessed that it made it difficult for anyone with funding to take me on (even though the admissions committee had ruled me as qualified last year) - a Columbia professor I visited, in fact, told me that.

 

Sadly, I was forced to decline my UChicago acceptance because I accidentally went into the wrong bathroom. It's VERY hard to believe, but it happened. I'd have kept this secret if things went well at Brown. Unfortunately, they're not, and I'm being put in an extremely difficult bind due to this. So it has to be let out.

 

So I took Brown's offer and it seemed to go okay at first. I was going to have multiple advisers (doing a project on climate modeling of the Eocene period). But then one of them left (the news came just a few weeks into the semester). Then this led to the other 2 advisers not being able to take me on. One is in the Physics department, so I would have to transfer to physics if i were to work with him (unfortunately, I don't think it's feasible for me to transfer to physics at this point). The other wasn't much of a research fit to begin with, and disowned me. I think she really wanted to interact more with the other adviser, and I was the perfect route for doing that.

 

So this is leaving me with research fit issues here, and I might be dropped from Brown if an adviser is not able to take me on by the end of the semester. The one issue is that I'm not sure if anyone is willing to take me on. I am kind of a stretch for the department research-wise because it doesn't have much climate modeling. It is expanding in climate modeling, however, as it just added a new oceanography modeler this year and it JUST hired someone else new who will be coming this summer. I'm currently taking the oceanographer's class, but he told me that he didn't see too much research fit between us (part of this was my own doing because I gave the impression of being exoplanet-obsessed when I first contacted him), and he is only planning on slowly expanding his group (he already has one new student now).

 

I just emailed the new climate modeler hiree who is coming this summer, and am waiting for a reply. There can be no guarantee that she will take new students next year, however.

 

I will look into my other options here, but I was advised that it may be difficult to find someone willing to take me. They have to be taking on new students *and* they also have to consider me to be a better fit than any of the other students they are taking on. I DO believe that the school/department really does have my best interests in mind and is really doing what it can do to help me.

 

I did apply to other schools this year. I'm on the top of the hold list for Penn State (I was a top applicant there, but there is someone who is stronger who is competing for the same slot). I visited and it's possible that I might have good research fit there with one adviser in particular (he isn't a climate modeler but he is famous and works on exoplanets - though this does not necessarily mean that the projects available are exoplanet-related projects). But again, faculty changes are affecting things. PSU is going to lose two climate modelers who co-supervised planetary atmosphere projects in the past, but it is also gaining one planetary atmosphere person.

 

At the same time, the burden of proof should always lie on the decision to transfer. Especially transfer after 1st-year. It makes everyone suspicious about something, it makes Brown look bad, and it could hurt my chances at applying for fellowships next year. Plus, there's no guarantee that things will work out there, especially given all the stuff that has happened to me last year. Transfer is ultimately a gamble, and the gamble probably has a less than 50% chance of working. If I were to remain in Academia, transfer might be the best option. But the chances of remaining in Academia are most likely less than 50% given everything that happened + the sequester + the sequester's especially hard impact on planetary science.

 

I applied for fellowships this year. I got rejected by NSF because i got a traditionalist reviewer (see https://www.quora.com/Grants/How-would-one-go-about-mentioning-Quora-under-the-Outreach-component-of-NSF-when-one-is-applying-for-the-NSF-Graduate-Research-Fellowship ). NDSEG looks more promising, but I doubt the chances are higher than 50%. DOE CSGF I'm still waiting on but am not too optimistic.

 

One issue with me is that I have Asperger's and ADD. I *think* things will improve - I've made so many mistakes and I've learned from them. But who knows. All sorts of random events have hit me over the last year (I've been disowned by more than one adviser), and it's possible they may happen again.

 

I'm not sure if I'm revealing anything that's too personal. If I am, feel free to suggest things that can be edited out. At the same time, I'm just in a massive bind and need all the possible suggestions I can get, because there is the very real possibility that I may even have to leave graduate school. Part of this is due to my own mistakes (I often assume that things will ultimately work out for the best, but unfortunately, these assumptions don't always work).

 

Professors at Brown and at Columbia did advise me to try out other schools (particularly Arizona, Colorado, and UCLA). I also really should have applied to Cornell. I am kind of regretting not taking their advice more. I would be very hesitant about moving from Brown to any of those schools (Arizona has someone with very good research fit but it's a state that I simply wouldn't want to live in), but I was simply not aware of how serious the situation at Brown was at the time. But the past is the past and I'm just not sure what I can do anymore.

 

Some have advised me to look into options outside of Academia. I *am* considering this, but the job market is just too horrible right now. A recruiter I know from Quora did contact me and did send my resume out for quant positions. But that didn't work out. The other issue is that I'm simply not sure if I can be happy doing anything other than science. There would also be a very high risk that I'd be fired, too...

 

==

 

For what it's worth, I think that climate science is inherently interesting in its own right, and given the choice between climate science and planetary science (but not both), I might just choose climate science. That said, highly-generalizable solid earth geodynamics might be interesting too (though I would have to go through more coursework for that).

 

If I absolutely have to, maybe switching fields might be an option. Computational biology might be the most feasible. But the burden of proof must always be placed on the decision to switch fields, as usual. But I have a poor GPA (in the low 3's) and was only able to get in the schools I did due to recommendation letters from people who were known in the field. This isn't really an option if I switched. I have near-perfect GRE scores though 96th/96th/99th/89th Biology.

Edited April 4, 2013 by InquilineKea

[pears]

holy moly that is a long post. for your benefit, i'm going to try to reduce this into a few bullet points for ease of reading. you'll probably get more responses that way. please correct me if i'm wrong at any point!

 

 

·  Background: Astrophysics major, did undergrad at University of Washington. Studies climate modeling, particularly of planetary atmospheres, per a professor’s recommendation.

·  Would be happy studying anything highly computational.

·  Last year: got into UChicago with fellowship (top choice), and Brown. Interviewed at Yale, also considered Columbia and MIT.

·  Had to decline UChicago’s offer because they went into the wrong bathroom (???), took Brown’s offer, but things are not going well there.

·  At Brown: meant to have multiple advisers, one left, so the other 2 couldn’t take them on. One is in Physics dept.; transferring not feasible now. Other adviser abandoned them.

·  May have to leave Brown if an adviser cannot take them on, but there may not be anyone. There is one new climate modeling hiree, but they may not take on new students. Also competing with incoming students for research fit.

·  Applied to other schools: at top of waitlist for Penn State, but there are also pending faculty changes in OP’s dept.

·  OP is worried about how they and Brown will look if they transfer after their first year, and the gamble of transferring. Also advised by professors to consider AZ, CO, UCLA; regrets not applying to Cornell. Hesitant about moving from Brown but also in a bad situation.

·  OP applied for fellowships: rejected by NSF because of reviewer (???), waiting on DOE CSGF and NDSEG. Worried about finding non-academic options; probably not an option.

·  OP has Asperger’s and ADD.

 

 

i added the (???)s as an indicator of things i'm skeptical of. i'm sorry, but there has to be more to the uchicago situation. it may be to your benefit to fully explain that, because i don't see why uchicago isn't a transfer option. also, i think it's odd that you're pushing off a grant rejection... but then again, i have no firsthand experience with that sort of thing, so it may well be possible that a great proposal can be shut down by a single reviewer with non-compatible views.

Edited April 4, 2013 by pears

[callista]

OP, I found this list - AZ is on it. http://www.collegexpress.com/lists/list/colleges-for-students-with-aspergers-the-very-friendly-ones/421/

[InquilineKea]

holy moly that is a long post. for your benefit, i'm going to try to reduce this into a few bullet points for ease of reading. you'll probably get more responses that way. please correct me if i'm wrong at any point!

 

 

·  Background: Astrophysics major, did undergrad at University of Washington. Studies climate modeling, particularly of planetary atmospheres, per a professor’s recommendation.

·  Would be happy studying anything highly computational.

·  Last year: got into UChicago with fellowship (top choice), and Brown. Interviewed at Yale, also considered Columbia and MIT.

·  Had to decline UChicago’s offer because they went into the wrong bathroom (???), took Brown’s offer, but things are not going well there.

·  At Brown: meant to have multiple advisers, one left, so the other 2 couldn’t take them on. One is in Physics dept.; transferring not feasible now. Other adviser abandoned them.

·  May have to leave Brown if an adviser cannot take them on, but there may not be anyone. There is one new climate modeling hiree, but they may not take on new students. Also competing with incoming students for research fit.

·  Applied to other schools: at top of waitlist for Penn State, but there are also pending faculty changes in OP’s dept.

·  OP is worried about how they and Brown will look if they transfer after their first year, and the gamble of transferring. Also advised by professors to consider AZ, CO, UCLA; regrets not applying to Cornell. Hesitant about moving from Brown but also in a bad situation.

·  OP applied for fellowships: rejected by NSF because of reviewer (???), waiting on DOE CSGF and NDSEG. Worried about finding non-academic options; probably not an option.

·  OP has Asperger’s and ADD.

 

 

i added the (???)s as an indicator of things i'm skeptical of. i'm sorry, but there has to be more to the uchicago situation. it may be to your benefit to fully explain that, because i don't see why uchicago isn't a transfer option. also, i think it's odd that you're pushing off a grant rejection... but then again, i have no firsthand experience with that sort of thing, so it may well be possible that a great proposal can be shut down by a single reviewer with non-compatible views.

It's very hard to believe. I'm also not sure if I can be comfortable with fully disclosing the contents of the emails... All I can say is that a few people have seen the contents of the emails, and none of them believe that transfer is a viable option after that. Not after a year, at least. Maybe wounds might heal after 2. Maybe.

 

It's possible that there is more to the UChicago situation than just the bathroom - I have a feeling that it might have been with my some other immature behavior of mine when I visited (which I deeply regret now) that made one of his other prospective students feel uncomfortable. Since it's important that a student gets along well with other students in an adviser's research group, this may have been the ultimate factor that made them force me to decline their offer.

 

One of my potential advisers at UChicago said that the way I handled the situation had shaken his faith in my judgment. Looking back at my emails, I can see that I said things that I probably should not have said.

 

The other said that he has a responsibility to make women in his research group feel welcomed, and that my actions (going into the wrong bathroom) did not make them feel welcomed. It may have been more related to the fact that I said some immature things during visiting day that I now regret

 

All of this could simply be immaturity, which can be corrected with time. But there could be issues even deeper than this immaturity. Maybe they ultimately boil down to "trust". I have no idea.

 

One pattern I have seen is that advisers have been really excited to take me on at first, only then to later disown me. Whether this is likely to happen in the future, I have no idea... It does make me very hesitant to consider the option of transfer, but there is also the possibility that I may have no other choice. There is a very real possibility that I could transfer and get screwed over. I don't think that it would happen again, but history says otherwise...

 

One issue is that I don't inform advisers that I have Asperger's/ADD before they take me on. It's difficult to think of an icebreaker to introduce that. One does not simply adjust to the personality defects of their students. The student (with their personality defects or whatever) must adjust to their advisers. The dean at my school actually strongly urged me to get social coaching (which could be covered by Brown insurance).

 

It's still probable that my grant would have been rejected even without that one reviewer - I probably only would have gotten honorable mention at best. But I do have a very unusual personality/background that makes some people (like the UW Atmos prof I was closest to) think that I'm destined for greatness (I won the McCormick Fellowship with a 3.18 GPA for a reason...), and other people think I have no hope in life. Basically I'm an orchid child (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/12/the-science-of-success/307761/ ) so this makes luck of the draw a lot more important to me than most... It really depends on the attitudes of the reviewers.

 

Whatever it is, if the remote possibility still exists, UChicago would absolutely absolutely absolutely be my first choice if I had a chance of coming back there again. I would even be willing to drop out of graduate school for a year in order to pursue this option. Everyone from the UW Atmospheric Science department who knew me last year was so excited about me getting into UChicago because they knew that the fit was so perfect. There were people at other schools who knew that I got into UChicago and who were then wondering "why isn't he at UChicago?"

 

The fit was so perfect that it made professors at other schools feel more uneasy about taking me on.

 

I just cannot be the one who initiates such a conversation. Someone else would have to do it.

 

Who knows. If it happened, maybe things would work out for the better if I got kicked out first, and then transferred in later after 2 years. The message they gave me was very strong, and I have every incentive to follow it.

Edited April 4, 2013 by InquilineKea

[InquilineKea]

OP, I found this list - AZ is on it. http://www.collegexpress.com/lists/list/colleges-for-students-with-aspergers-the-very-friendly-ones/421/

 

Sadly I don't think that these lists are applicable to graduate students (it just lists support groups). It really depends a lot more on the adviser than the school.

Edited April 4, 2013 by InquilineKea

[callista]

One issue is that I don't inform advisers that I have Asperger's/ADD before they take me on. It's difficult to think of an icebreaker to introduce that. One does not simply adjust to the personality defects of their students. The student (with their personality defects or whatever) must adjust to their advisers. The dean at my school actually strongly urged me to get social coaching (which could be covered by Brown insurance).

 

Personally, I think that it would benefit both of you to disclose this information up front.  It would help you find a better match.

[InquilineKea]

It would. It would just have to come at the right moment. Disclosing these conditions can change everything in a relationship as intense as the student-adviser relationship.

 

My application is on hold right now, so it would be especially risky to disclose. I can only disclose after I get accepted.

 

I actually told my POI at PSU to talk with the people at Chicago to determine what happened there, since any project I undertake at PSU would be very closely related to what the people at Chicago did.

Edited April 4, 2013 by InquilineKea

[emie]

You might be interested in our computational geoscience program, which can either be done in 3 quarters (1 academic year) or in 5 quarters as part of a PhD track.  https://pangea.stanford.edu/programs/compgeo/academics

 

Of course, you would have to apply next year to start in 2015 at the earliest.

[pears]

i'm so glad someone else uses the term "orchid child"! my mom has been calling me her orchid child since then, and keeps orchids at home when i'm away; my SO's mom (super little hippie woman whom i adore) likes to remind me that i'm an indigo child. both are a much healthier, positive, and (perhaps) accurate way of looking at so-called "genetic 'doom'" and a generally one-dimensional way of looking at things like asperger's, ADD, etc.

 

anyway, personally, i don't see why uchicago is off the table. i know you said "I just cannot be the one who initiates such a conversation," and i imagine it would be incredibly nerve-wracking and difficult for you to do. however, realistically, nobody is going to go out of their way to contact a past applicant; they can't read your mind, so how are they magically meant to know exactly when to send you an email or call since you're considering transferring, and encourage you to apply? if you want something to happen, you have to be proactive about it, and really, uchicago sounds like it would be too ideal and wonderful of an academic opportunity for you to pass up, even though it's probably going to be a strained interaction at first. camaraderie within a cohort can be amended with apologies (in person, with sincerity, and perhaps followed up with a positive upswing, e.g., inviting people to lunch). 

 

even if it's over email, i would strongly recommend getting in touch with past POIs at chicago. offer a sincere and detailed apology, and ask whether they think you could still reapply for transfer (rather than relying on the opinions of others). it doesn't seem impossible, considering you were the one who decided not to attend, at the end of it all; they didn't flat out rescind your offer, right? the worst that happens is they say "no," which is a really friggin' hard life lesson to learn, and you'll have to move on and consider other places, and continue to work on building a better relationship with the students and professors who will likely be collaborators in the future. the best that happens is you end up at your dream school in a delicate balance with your cohort that could provide a good opportunity for you to learn how to navigate really difficult social situations. in sum, you'd be exchanging long-term academic strain without social issues for short-term(?) social strain without academic issues, which, to me, seems like it would be very much worth that first email to POIs at chicago. however stressful or awkward.

[InquilineKea]

You might be interested in our computational geoscience program, which can either be done in 3 quarters (1 academic year) or in 5 quarters as part of a PhD track.  https://pangea.stanford.edu/programs/compgeo/academics

 

Of course, you would have to apply next year to start in 2015 at the earliest.

 

Oh wow cool - thanks very much for that suggestion. I'll keep that in mind.

 

i'm so glad someone else uses the term "orchid child"! my mom has been calling me her orchid child since then, and keeps orchids at home when i'm away; my SO's mom (super little hippie woman whom i adore) likes to remind me that i'm an indigo child. both are a much healthier, positive, and (perhaps) accurate way of looking at so-called "genetic 'doom'" and a generally one-dimensional way of looking at things like asperger's, ADD, etc.

 

anyway, personally, i don't see why uchicago is off the table. i know you said "I just cannot be the one who initiates such a conversation," and i imagine it would be incredibly nerve-wracking and difficult for you to do. however, realistically, nobody is going to go out of their way to contact a past applicant; they can't read your mind, so how are they magically meant to know exactly when to send you an email or call since you're considering transferring, and encourage you to apply? if you want something to happen, you have to be proactive about it, and really, uchicago sounds like it would be too ideal and wonderful of an academic opportunity for you to pass up, even though it's probably going to be a strained interaction at first. camaraderie within a cohort can be amended with apologies (in person, with sincerity, and perhaps followed up with a positive upswing, e.g., inviting people to lunch). 

 

even if it's over email, i would strongly recommend getting in touch with past POIs at chicago. offer a sincere and detailed apology, and ask whether they think you could still reapply for transfer (rather than relying on the opinions of others). it doesn't seem impossible, considering you were the one who decided not to attend, at the end of it all; they didn't flat out rescind your offer, right? the worst that happens is they say "no," which is a really friggin' hard life lesson to learn, and you'll have to move on and consider other places, and continue to work on building a better relationship with the students and professors who will likely be collaborators in the future. the best that happens is you end up at your dream school in a delicate balance with your cohort that could provide a good opportunity for you to learn how to navigate really difficult social situations. in sum, you'd be exchanging long-term academic strain without social issues for short-term(?) social strain without academic issues, which, to me, seems like it would be very much worth that first email to POIs at chicago. however stressful or awkward.

 

Hmm - thanks so much for that message. I wish I could I agree with you.

 

But they were preparing to rescind my admission. 

Edited April 4, 2013 by InquilineKea

[pears]

if it helps, i've read it all, so feel free to delete it whenever. understood- it is, as you hinted at, pretty much off the table. it might still be worth it to contact your POI(s) there, but i wouldn't expect too much.

[yaey]

So this is leaving me with research fit issues here, and I might be dropped from Brown if an adviser is not able to take me on by the end of the semester. The one issue is that I'm not sure if anyone is willing to take me on. I am kind of a stretch for the department research-wise because it doesn't have much climate modeling. It is expanding in climate modeling, however, as it just added a new oceanography modeler this year and it JUST hired someone else new who will be coming this summer. I'm currently taking the oceanographer's class, but he told me that he didn't see too much research fit between us (part of this was my own doing because I gave the impression of being exoplanet-obsessed when I first contacted him), and he is only planning on slowly expanding his group (he already has one new student now)

 

I'm really starting to realize that I'd now be happy with anything as long as it's highly computational

 

seems like you could solve a lot of your problems by being flexible on your choice of topic

 

why don't you talk to all the professors, not just the ones interested in what you're interested in?  you don't have to pigeonhole yourself into one area.  you like climate modeling but maybe you'd like other stuff too,

 

i think personality fit is more important than research fit so you should select for that first

[InquilineKea]

I'm trying to do that here now. I have approximately one week left to talk to everyone who remains. Someone suggested that I talk to the chair of the Physics PhD department - given the grim situation, I probably should do that even though I don't expect much out of it. Same for possibly the Biology PhD department.

 

With respect to choice of research topic - it just has to be computational. That is all.

 

Personality fit is really important - I agree. It's hard to determine that from a few conversations though. Sometimes people who really like me suddenly turn against me (see: UChicago). It also kind of happened at Brown. That's why it's so hard.

 

There is a single professor at the UW who I feel like I can absolutely trust, but she is going on sabbatical next year (it's going to really hurt me when she does - everyone at every other university knows that she is really special to me). She also tells me that she would be hesitant about taking me because I have a tendency to jump around too much. Sadly, it would be hard for me to convince her otherwise - she knows me far too well.

 

The problem is, that in order for me to determine personality fit with someone, I have to find out how they react to emails like my freakout emails. 

 

Also, this is why I feel extremely hesitant about transferring to PSU until I can figure out the personality fit issue for sure (this is going to be really hard to do). People can be super-nice and accommodating, and then suddenly turn against you without warning. I've had this happen far too often enough.

 

If things did not work out in central Pennsylvania, it would become a profoundly difficult situation for me. If I could stay here one more year and *at least* get a Master's Degree, it would allow me to leave with a clean slate, if I had to leave.

Edited April 5, 2013 by InquilineKea

[TakeruK]

One issue is that I don't inform advisers that I have Asperger's/ADD before they take me on. It's difficult to think of an icebreaker to introduce that. One does not simply adjust to the personality defects of their students. The student (with their personality defects or whatever) must adjust to their advisers. The dean at my school actually strongly urged me to get social coaching (which could be covered by Brown insurance).

 

Hi again, haven't seen/heard from you for awhile! If it helps, when I saw your posts earlier in the year about transferring/fellowships etc. I was rooting for a good outcome for you! Sorry to hear that it hasn't been super great

 

I think your dean is making a good point. As you have described yourself, the main issues, it sounds like, with your previous relationships (whether it's with the school, department, advisor, or colleagues) is the personality mismatch. As much as I would like to encourage everyone to "just be themselves", academia is a social environment where it's really important to be able to get along with people around you and have them trust you and your judgement. It sounds like you might over-share information that might make someone uncomfortable (either sharing information involving other people or sharing too much information about yourself and making the listener uncomfortable). For example, it might be not have been the best judgement to even bring up the whole Chicago incident here. It would have been possible to ask for advice in your situation without even mentioning that you even applied to (and/or got into) Chicago. I don't want to pick on you, but I just wanted to give an example of what I mean. 

 

This is why I agree with your dean regarding getting social coaching or some outside help from a supportive source. It could give you some strategies to manage your relationships. Have you considered taking a medical leave of absence? You might be able to stay on Brown insurance. This might be a good idea since it will give you additional time to convince a Brown professor to take you on. Also, actively seeking help might go a long way towards mending any damaged relationships. It sounds like most profs think you have a lot of potential but there may be some personality issues that prevent that potential to become a successful collaboration. They might be willing to reconsider later on if you show that you are doing something to help change the current direction of the relationship. Then you might be able to finish at least a MS at Brown (maybe a year later than expected).

 

Medical leave will also buy you time to really think about where you want to go in the future. You can apply to more PhD programs. You can think about if you would want to stay at Brown. It could at least prevent you from having to make a decision you're not sure about by the end of the semester! The extra time could also allow you to talk to different people in your expanded research interest at Brown too. And if you get into Penn State this season and decide that you do want to be there after all, you could still withdraw from Brown and be in Pennsylvania by September. I haven't experienced medical leave before, so I don't know if this is really possible, but I think it's worth considering as well.

Edited April 5, 2013 by TakeruK

[InquilineKea]

Hey - thanks so much for the advice. I really really appreciate it a lot - it means a lot to me.

 

As for why I mentioned Chicago - I'm mentioning it because the issue has emerged at more than one school. It's not specific to Brown, and it affects my ability to trust anyone anywhere at any school. The Chicago thing was probably more than just the bathroom, which makes it extra relevant, because it has to do with social skills. Maybe it's not *entirely* necessary though. I just really don't want people to think less of Brown because of it.

 

Another real reason why I mention it is because I really want to give a picture of what sorts of opportunities I'm really screwing myself out of. I had seriously amazing options last year and it's just incredible how much my social ineptitude can screw myself out of so many of them. People at Brown and Chicago were both surprised that I didn't get into more schools, actually (much of it possibly because of the oversharing thing in addition to the exoplanet obsessiveness). To be honest though, if Brown and Chicago had used pre-acceptance interviews, I wouldn't have gotten into either school (Brown b/c of research fit; Chicago b/c of what happened).

 

You're right about oversharing though - there is a point where I overshare. There's a very fine distinction between oversharing and not oversharing. I'm just not sure where the line is. I just have to make a decision in just over a week that I'm getting slightly desperate, and the problem is that I shared too little before I made this thread, which probably led to me not getting the best advice and into the very desperate situation I am in now. (though actually someone at Brown just PMed me with super-useful advice specific to my situation now because of a few things I shared here...)

 

I've really been trying to not make that information public, but when I contact people about the research-fit situation here and they ask me "well why isn't he at Chicago", then the truth has to come out.

 

You make a VERY excellent point about taking a medical leave of absence. The dean has suggested that as an option, and I might be able to do research without commitment if it happened. It would be especially helpful to me because I have a lot of difficulty juggling mutliple things at once (I simply can't balance research and coursework) and if I could have some time for focused research and nothing else, that would do a lot to convince people that I can finish projects

 

It is kind of true that Brown is not the best school for me, research-fit-wise though. A lot of people are more labwork/fieldwork than computational. Not everyone who does computation is able to take on a student at the time, but in computation-heavy departments, there usually is at least some fraction of people who are willing to do that.

 

I *think* the interaction with the Dean is really helping. To be honest, a huge reason why I actually applied to Brown to begin with was because I heard of how the deans were so sympathetic to the undergrads (as I know someone with borderline personality disorder there), which made me think that maybe it's more accommodating to people like me too.

 

==

 

Actually now that I think about it, academia IS the type of place where people really do NOT like it when they share things. I'm a big believer in open science and such (and hang out with A LOT of people in open science communities), but I really really have to realize that most scientists are uncomfortable with the philosophy, and that it takes judgment to determine whether or not it is appropriate to share a piece of knowledge or not.

 

I'm really good with the Internet and everything, but most scientists have an entirely different attitude towards the Internet than, say, people on forums, and I have to realize that.

 

In fact, now to think about it, I had even overshared information with prospective advisers at certain schools (Yale, MIT) last year, which could have affected their ability to take me on. 

 

==

 

For what it's worth, if I was an undergrad here, none of this would be an issue at all. Profs are still very responsive to me in class and everything. The first year fellowship practically makes me an undergrad for 1 year, but anything beyond that gets difficult..

Edited April 5, 2013 by InquilineKea

[InquilineKea]

Anyways - I'd like to thank all of you for responding to this thread and helping me think about things. I think this discussion is really helping me narrow down the ultimate reason why I've been disowned so often. Maybe I'm not getting the reason right. But any step in the right direction is progress. Because I have to think hard about this before April 15th.

 

I was thinking more of the situation last night. It was honestly a harrowing night for me. But it had to be done because I really cannot let it happen again.

 

What happened at Chicago was relevant (though in retrospect, I could maybe have put fewer details into it - I actually probably could have gone without listing the school name). Accidentally going to the wrong bathroom may not have even been the main issue. The main issue may be the same main issue that happened at Brown. And even at the other schools that I had a strong shot at, but ultimately did not get into. Sure, there was the GPA issue, but the GPA was not fatal per se.

 

The main issue - is trust.

 

What happened at Chicago made my advisers lose their trust in me. I probably handled the bathroom situation poorly, and it probably made it seem like I had things to hide. That makes people lose trust in me, and ultimately resulted in the tragic outcome.

 

What happened at Brown also made my advisers lose their trust in me too. I'm not going to go over the details because they're unnecessary. One could make an argument that what happened there was inevitable. Even if inevitable, I still could have managed things a lot better...

 

Given the pit that I've dug myself into, I think people are ultimately glad that they've disowned me. I'd like to imagine things differently, but it's the way things are now.

 

Even research fit is an issue of trust. It is hard to trust someone who doesn't have much research fit, especially if it seems like they're doing research in an area that is not their first choice.

 

Of course, students must realize that they may have to do research in an area that is not their first choice. This can create trust issues. Does it always have to? Not necessarily. If a student feels that their research is contributing to their self-development, then trust can be possible.

 

It is very difficult to handle discussions involving trust. These types of discussions can be especially unpleasant for both sides.

 

If there is any perception that the student does not trust the adviser or whatever, then things will go nasty quickly.

 

Also, it's generally a lot harder to trust a student when the student is clearly doing things out of desperation.

 

Having Asperger's/ADD *can* create trust issues, but it is ultimately up to the student to adapt to their adviser, not the other way around (of course, depending on the severity of the condition, there are cases where adaptation is impossible)

 

==

 

Of course, I'm probably going to have to get into a situation where my only choices would make many people further lose their trust in me. At least for a year or so. If it must be done, it must be done.

Edited April 5, 2013 by InquilineKea

[yaey]

YAEY!!!

[TakeruK]

Glad to hear this!

[InquilineKea]

Hopefully. There are no guarantees (as with anything that happens to me), and I'll find out more this week.

[InquilineKea]

Sadly, not happening. I'm almost certainly going to be kicked out.

[yaey]

that's not cool.

[gelologist]

You said she was willing to take you on. Why not now? Sorry that your grad studies seem to be so prone to drama and extraneous circumstances.

[InquilineKea]

I probably shouldn't mention details. But suffices to say that departments have an obligation to inform assistant professors of the risks involved in taking me.

 

I wish my grad studies wouldn't be so prone to drama and extraneous circumstances! Ugh.

Edited April 9, 2013 by InquilineKea

[buffalowizard]

You mention the risks, but what about the potential rewards associated with taking you on? There are reasons, after all, why programs have accepted you in the first place, and you can't let people lose sight of them. Have you considered asking your old advisor from UW to contact this assistant professor on your behalf and make the case for why you're worth the risk? Additionally, can you think of any ways you could try to "prove yourself" to this assistant professor in order to win this assistant professor over?

[InquilineKea]

Thanks so much for the advice - I really appreciate it a lot.

 

I agree about the potential rewards, but I guess somehow the rules cannot be bent even if there are potential rewards.

 

It's possible that the department does not want me to be kicked out. I have no idea. The new prof would be arriving in the summer, and I would need to be supported under someone else's money before she arrives. Furthermore, it is a lot to ask any new assistant professor to immediately take on a student, especially if they're simply getting their lab set up (and before they even get the chance to meet the student in person). I would be especially risky as a first student.

 

My old advisor at UW is only willing to provide some advice to me. She's not willing to intervene. It's politically difficult to intervene, especially when the person involved is a student with no power.

 

As for ways to "prove myself", it could be research with the assistant professor. On the other hand, I should not sound so desperate as to take desperate measures to do such things. No one has any question about my intelligence or abilities. The real question is whether or not they can trust me not to "bolt" for some other research area. This was why even my old adviser at UW would be extremely hesitant about taking me on.

 

My PI at Penn State is actually the person most sympathetic to my situation, and possibly more willing to help me than anyone else. Though even he recognizes that transfer may not be the best option at the moment. He actually just emailed me telling me that it would probably be best if I got a Master's Degree from Brown first and then transferred later. Again, it would be contingent on finding an adviser who can have the funding for taking me on for a year here.

 

==

 

Much of this situation came out of my own doing, I suppose. I really should have sought out potential advisers earlier rather than just before the April 15th deadline. As a result, I'm caught up in this messy situation.

Edited April 9, 2013 by InquilineKea