How Many Years for a Humanities Ph.D

[1Q84]

I feel like this questions is asked a lot but searching for 30 minutes turned up nothing. I know that it's highly variable and what not depending on personal work habits, but what's an average for English folks?

 

I had a mild heart attack when I read, in passing, someone said 9 years is the average for an English Ph.D at Berkeley. I can't begin to fathom taking that long on a Ph.D but obviously I don't have details on what the general path is.

 

Anyone care to enlighten me?

[somethinbruin]

I'm coming into my PhD program with an MA already. Most of the programs I looked at were designed to be done in 5-6 years, depending on how quickly you wrote your dissertation. The shortest I applied to claimed to be 4 years, although students there privately confided that it nearly always took 5 years.

 

I think 5-6 is a good ballpark for programs in the US. Schools do NOT want you to take 9 years to finish a PhD. That doesn't look good for their numbers. For students, anything beyond six years and you risk losing your funding. 

 

I can't speak to how long combined MA/PhD programs are supposed to take. I didn't go that route. 

[Gauche]

Ideally, programs want you to be done in 5, maybe 6 years tops. Realistically? The average seems to be 9 years now, which I guess is better than not getting your PhD at all seeing as many (about half the students in PhD programs) drop out by the dissertation stage.

 

That's why you need to be careful about what programs you choose because most of them offer fellowships for 5-6 years, but if it takes you longer, you better hope there's some competitive funding you can apply for.

 

Anyway, if the statistics have really shocked you, I suggest that you do more research about the rigors of a PhD program and what the job market looks like after graduation. It isn't pretty at all. And I don't mean to sound like a jerk or anything if my post comes across that way. I just think everyone should be aware of the rigors of doctoral programs and the bleak job market for those in the humanities because unfortunately not all professors are honest with their students about these things.

[dazedandbemused]

Yeah, I heard about the god-awful time to completion at Berkeley too. I spoke to a professor recently who finished his PhD there in the last few years, and apparently that has a lot to do with the coursework requirements. I think it's one of those programs that requires a certain number of classes in a variety of fields, which can make it difficult to spend enough time on coursework within your field. I applied to a few programs with those requirements, but for the most part I definitely wanted schools where my coursework was largely left up to me.

 

I think it's quite possible that the national average time to degree is still around nine years, but there are many programs where that is no longer a reality. Also, make sure your program is, in some way, willing to support you past your guaranteed funding. One of the schools that I was seriously considering only guarantees five years funding, but in the last few years everyone got sixth year funding if they wanted it, and almost as many were able to get seventh year funding. Even if they might not have longer funding, see if you can get a vibe for what happens to students who are no longer funded: do they disappear into adjunct hell, never to be seen or advised again?

 

My program is six years of guaranteed funding, but it's an MA/PhD. I know at least one person in my cohort said they fully intend to take seven years. Me? I want to be out of there in six, five and a half if I can shift it. I don't want to be in school at 30 (I know it's younger than a lot of others, but that's the arbitrary goal I've set for myself).

[Two Espressos]

Yeah, the time-to-degree rate in the humanities is deeply troubling; no one should be spending a decade in a doctoral program.  Many of our friends in the sciences finish in 4-5 years, so I think 5-6 years--perhaps 7 in some rare cases-- is a reasonable goal for an English Ph.D.  I haven't extensively studied this issue, but I'll offer a few suggestions as to why the time-to-degree rate is so bad: 1) foreign language requirements, which seem to trip many people up, especially those who haven't studied them prior to their doctoral program; 2) course distribution requirements, as outlined above; and 3) the terrible state of the job market.  The last one may be the most significant reason: because it's so brutal out there, perhaps many people stay on in their Ph.D. programs as ABD teaching fellows so as to avoid possible joblessness when they go on the market.  I know that at least some people do this.  Thoughts from others?

 

As an anecdote, my program requires its students to finish the doctorate in 8 years, but the program is designed to be completed in six years.  I don't plan on taking longer than that.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Two Espressos

[Datatape]

The program I'll be attending is pretty well-structured and they've said it's extremely rare for someone to take longer than five years to finish the degree.  Everyone is generally done with coursework by the end of the second year, does exams in the third, and then has two years to write the dissertation.  Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule, but the faculty works very hard with the students to make sure they stay on track to graduate in five years.  By comparison, the school I currently work at just hired on an ABD student to act as the Writing Center director; she's in year seven and still dithering about how to finish her dissertation.  Every school is different, and the best way to figure out how long it takes is to talk with the current grad students; they're the ones who have to actually finish the degree, so they'll be very in-tune with how much longer they've got.

[Swagato]

I was told that 6.5 years is the usual for my program. However, it is a joint program, so coursework requirements are appreciably more than is usual for a single-program PhD. Plus, history of art often expects field work, which can add to the time. The department doesn't show anyone beyond their seventh year, though, which is great. And funding doesn't continue after that either--you have to find your own. I think this is pretty damn good for a joint program, especially considering their rigorous language requirements (you cannot use courses to  count for the language reqs). 

[champagne]

 1) foreign language requirements, which seem to trip many people up, especially those who haven't studied them prior to their doctoral program

 

Is this really that much of an issue? I've heard this from professors, but I guess it just seems very unusual to me. The requirements, which I suppose do take a little bit of time and effort, seem like such a joke in comparison with the other really tough academic work you will have to do during your time in the program; however, language requirements are always cited as a reason for not completing a program.

 

I guess I understand that most English Ph.D. students would rather be spending their time doing something else, but I just don't see how you can let something as relatively trivial as a language requirement keep you from accomplishing such an involved life goal. 

[wreckofthehope]

It was my understanding that part of the reason for Berkeley's long average time to degree was their willingness to keep students on who had essentially already finished their dissertations but had not found a job yet. Once they get a job, then they graduate. So, they increase their time to degree but also increase their percentage of students who are graduating into full time employment. 

 

Anyway, I think the average overall in English is something like 10 years, so Berkeley's isn't exactly that bad. Anecdotally, though, I'd say that most people I know of finish in between 5 and 7 years, I presume that the outliers (the 10 to 15 year people) are what shift the overall average up across the board. 

Edited April 29, 2013 by wreckofthehope

[jazzyd]

Is this really that much of an issue? I've heard this from professors, but I guess it just seems very unusual to me. The requirements, which I suppose do take a little bit of time and effort, seem like such a joke in comparison with the other really tough academic work you will have to do during your time in the program; however, language requirements are always cited as a reason for not completing a program.

 

Well, consider that language requirements do vary between programs. Yale I believe requires tested proficiency in three languages, where I believe the average is two. And the actual protocol for proving such might range from a simple passage translation to a longer translation project. Also, I've heard that a lot of students tend to put off the language requirements, which can pose a problem if they are not keeping up with the languages they will be tested on.

 

So while it seems extreme that the language requirements alone would draw the whole process to a halt, I can sort of imagine how that happens. And I'm sure once we're all in the thick of our programs we'll have an even better idea

[ProfLorax]

Is this really that much of an issue? I've heard this from professors, but I guess it just seems very unusual to me. The requirements, which I suppose do take a little bit of time and effort, seem like such a joke in comparison with the other really tough academic work you will have to do during your time in the program; however, language requirements are always cited as a reason for not completing a program.

Not only do different programs have different requirements, but most programs have a strict deadline for completing the language requirement. At Maryland, I cannot take my comp exam until I have proven fluency in my language. So, I have to achieve fluency within two years, all while taking coursework. If a student is unable to master a language within two years, the comp exam is pushed back, the dissertation prospectus is pushed back, and the dissertation itself is pushed back. 

[1Q84]

My program is six years of guaranteed funding, but it's an MA/PhD. I know at least one person in my cohort said they fully intend to take seven years. Me? I want to be out of there in six, five and a half if I can shift it. I don't want to be in school at 30 (I know it's younger than a lot of others, but that's the arbitrary goal I've set for myself).

I was just talking to my friend who is doing her Ph.D at York U in Toronto and she said that she intends to draw it out to 7 even though she could probably be done in 6 so that she can take all the funding that they'll be giving her. I guess that includes family benefits as well (her and her husband intend to have a kid soon). I don't know, I guess if one puts it that way, 7 years in a Ph.D doesn't seem so bad. But all things considered, I definitely only want to be spending 5.5 too.

[ProfLorax]

Am I crazy for thinking I can have a baby and still finish in five years? My goal is to wait until I'm done with coursework, plan my pregnancy for the summer, and take advantage of the six weeks of parental leave. I know there are a lot of things that have to go right for my plan to work, but I am going into this thing planning on having ze babies and staying on track. 

 

I'm willing to admit that I am completely delusional, so at least I got that, right?

[heliogabalus]

<<Am I crazy for thinking I can have a baby and still finish in five years?>>

Yes.

[Datatape]

Am I crazy for thinking I can have a baby and still finish in five years? My goal is to wait until I'm done with coursework, plan my pregnancy for the summer, and take advantage of the six weeks of parental leave. I know there are a lot of things that have to go right for my plan to work, but I am going into this thing planning on having ze babies and staying on track. 

 

I'm willing to admit that I am completely delusional, so at least I got that, right?

 

[crazyhappy]

less crazy than I am for planning to do it with 5 kids (the oldest will only be 9!)

[ProfLorax]

I love you for this.

[lisajay]

Am I crazy for thinking I can have a baby and still finish in five years? My goal is to wait until I'm done with coursework, plan my pregnancy for the summer, and take advantage of the six weeks of parental leave. I know there are a lot of things that have to go right for my plan to work, but I am going into this thing planning on having ze babies and staying on track. 

 

I'm willing to admit that I am completely delusional, so at least I got that, right?

 

my plan is nearly identical, except i'm targeting operation get-knocked-up at ~9 months before coursework ends (waddling around campus will do my preggo self some good, i'm sure), then 9 months prepping for quals while only having to be on campus to teach, then a fellowship year for the dissertation where i won't have to be on campus on any kind of regular basis, just for meetings & what not.

[JKL]

Earning a PhD after 9 years means you can tell people you graduated from the 27th grade.