What GRE Quant score for top programs?

[nitefly]

For HKS, Columbia, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Tufts, etc., what quant score is generally needed? (And yes, I know that the other parts of an application matter as well).

 

I am averaging Q: 154, V: 168 on all my GRE practice tests.  The verbal is no problem at all for me, I blow it away, but I can't seem to break my quant score above the 153 - 156 range.  

[hopeful88]

I got into Columbia, U Chicago, UCLA and UC Berkeley with similar scores (Q 157 V 169). I would think your scores are good enough to get into top programs as long as the rest of your app is solid (can't speak for Harvard though, as I didn't apply there and I've gotten the impression that GRE scores may matter more for that program--or maybe the folks on this forum who applied to HKS just obsess over their scores more )

[DupontCircle]

I compiled this about a year ago so it's a bit dated and some are converted from old scores:

 

SAIS: 154-161

SFS: 157

HKS: 155

WWS: 152-160

Fletcher: 154-161

Nothing on SIPA

 

Medians or IQRs, hope this helps.

[mrgreen102]

SAIS, Fletcher, and SIPA all told me that they do not have GRE cutoff scores.  They look at the scores as a part of the application.  However, the higher your GRE Quant scores, the better.  High GRE Quant scores are supposed to really help you if you don't have prior quantitative experience in courses or through your work experience.

 

I have gotten the impression that IR graduate programs don't care that much about your GRE Verbal score or Writing score because they get so many international students.  They seem to care about the GRE Quant section a lot more, which sucks for those of us who excel at the Verbal section and are terrible at Geometry.

 

I hope that IR graduate programs don't care too much about the GRE Quant section since I doubt I will be able to score above 152 no matter how much I study.  

Edited August 4, 2013 by mrgreen102

[mrgreen102]

I compiled this about a year ago so it's a bit dated and some are converted from old scores:

 

SAIS: 154-161

SFS: 157

HKS: 155

WWS: 152-160

Fletcher: 154-161

Nothing on SIPA

 

Medians or IQRs, hope this helps.

Wait, HKS and WWS' benchmarks for GRE Quant scores are that low?  That seems odd.

[PeterQuince]

Wait, HKS and WWS' benchmarks for GRE Quant scores are that low?  That seems odd.

 

What DupontCircle listed for SAIS, WWS, and Fletcher are inter-quartile ranges, so for WWS, 25% of admitted students scored below a 152 and 25% scored above a 160, while 50% of admitted students scored in between 152 and 160.  Unless you knew that already and were surprised by that the 25% mark wasn't higher.  I've got nothing for you there.

 

Also worth remembering that "benchmarks" and average scores of admitted students aren't the same thing.  A school can have a publicized (or un-publicized) benchmark they expect students to score above, but still make exceptions for individuals they want to admit, in that type of situation, the average would likely be higher than the benchmark.  The average is just that - an average of every admitted student's scores.  Scoring above the average doesn't mean you'll get in and scoring below doesn't mean you'll be rejected.

 

As for Harvard, well, the list is dated, it may not have been accurate at the time, and it's a good reminder either way that the GRE is a key metric in the admissions process but not the sole deciding factor at Harvard or anywhere else.

[fenderpete]

For WWS I know GRE scores are just part of the wider package, and if you're truly an outstanding admit GRE score matters less than other factors such as work experience and demonstrated commitment to public service.

[DupontCircle]

These are a bit older and if I remember the ones for HKS/WWS were harder to find (perhaps more dubious?). However, the median verbals for each were mid-160s which is where one would expect. I see a place like WWS having a more holistic approach as fenderpete suggests while a place like SAIS having more emphasis on GRE quant scores. Ultimately, its policy and not engineering so medians around 75th-80th percentile or a tad lower aren't that shocking especially with the other presumed strengths of other parts of the application. 

[mrgreen102]

Does SAIS really emphasize GRE Quant scores?  I know the program focuses on economics but they don't require any Quant classes (statistics, algebra, etc.).  Do they assume high GRE Quant score = good at economics?

 

From what I understand, most IR graduate programs consider GRE scores as part of your overall application.  But the remaining questions are:

 

1) What is the lowest score you can get on the GRE Quant section and still be admitted into a good program?  Programs say there is no cutoff/benchmark but they probably draw a line somewhere.

 

2) What is the link between high GRE scores and funding?  A couple of people on this forum wrote you have a better chance of receiving a fellowship/funding package if you do well on the GRE.

 

3) Can enough prior Quant classes/work experience make up for a low score?

Edited August 5, 2013 by mrgreen102

[DupontCircle]

I think they all look at GRE quant espcially if there is a lack of such coursework from undergrad. One doesn't need to be an expert but functional. Due to SAIS's economic focus, I'd imagine it matters a bit more to them. But that's my conjecture.

 

1) Again, conjecture, I'd imagine it'd get pretty difficult below 150. If you're in the low-150's then clearly it's not a strength of your application and will need to be counterbalanced by strengths. These apps are holistic and schools are slotting different demographics, niches, etc.

 

2) I too have read repeatedly that higher GRE scores matter for funding. This is the only reason I'm contemplating taking it again.

 

3) Depends on admissions but, again, I'd imagine that if you have done well in Calc 1,2,3 or done advanced stats, differential equations blah blah then they won't care much about your ability in geometry. 

 

I'd also add to buy the Manhattan books. Work them regularly for two months and there really isn't anyway you won't get at the very least an average score for these schools. We're only talking 80th percentile to get in the upper-quartile or quintile for most of these schools. 

[mrgreen102]

I think they all look at GRE quant espcially if there is a lack of such coursework from undergrad. One doesn't need to be an expert but functional. Due to SAIS's economic focus, I'd imagine it matters a bit more to them. But that's my conjecture.

 

1) Again, conjecture, I'd imagine it'd get pretty difficult below 150. If you're in the low-150's then clearly it's not a strength of your application and will need to be counterbalanced by strengths. These apps are holistic and schools are slotting different demographics, niches, etc.

 

2) I too have read repeatedly that higher GRE scores matter for funding. This is the only reason I'm contemplating taking it again.

 

3) Depends on admissions but, again, I'd imagine that if you have done well in Calc 1,2,3 or done advanced stats, differential equations blah blah then they won't care much about your ability in geometry. 

 

I'd also add to buy the Manhattan books. Work them regularly for two months and there really isn't anyway you won't get at the very least an average score for these schools. We're only talking 80th percentile to get in the upper-quartile or quintile for most of these schools. 

Numerous posters on this forum got into places like Fletcher, SIPA, GWU, and even SAIS with scores anywhere between 148-154.  If the other parts of your application are strong enough, than admissions committees seem to be willing to overlook a bad test score.  This is not like applying for law school or even business school where a less than stellar test score means you don't have a shot.

[Pinkman]

For SAIS, it depends on your econ prep. If you have slid grounding in the area, the GRE matters less. However, if there's no evidence of economics or very little, then a middling score in Quant like yours would prob result in a ding. This coming from the Assistant Dean of Admissions.

 

Fletcher is pretty flexible, the strength of the app as a whole matters. 

[Pinkman]

I got into Fletcher, SIPA, Chicago Harris with <155 quant but reapplying to get more aid and perhaps HKS too.

[rhodeislander]

Like DupontCIrcle said, the average for most top programs is around 155ish.These programs all make a big deal about emphasizing quantitative skills, but when it comes down to it they don't expect you to score all that high. So your score won't help you, but it shouldn't hurt you too much either. You'll just have to stand out on the other parts of your app. So long as you've got a high GPA, strong recs, an interesting SOP, and relevant experience, you'll be just fine.

[mrgreen102]

For SAIS, it depends on your econ prep. If you have slid grounding in the area, the GRE matters less. However, if there's no evidence of economics or very little, then a middling score in Quant like yours would prob result in a ding. This coming from the Assistant Dean of Admissions.

 

Fletcher is pretty flexible, the strength of the app as a whole matters.

Yeah, that sums up everything that I've heard about SAIS and Fletcher too.  Is Georgetown as Econ and Quant heavy as SAIS and SIPA?

 

I'm not sure that I even want to apply to SAIS anymore.  Economics is interesting but I would not enjoy having to take at least four Economics classes (not including the Intermediate classes over the summer) when the program lasts only two years.  It seems like overkill to me.

 

SIPA emphasizes Quants but they don't care as much about GRE scores.  The admissions staff told me get to get over 150 on the Quant section and that they barely look at Verbal scores or Writing scores.  But then again, everything I have heard about SIPA is that it is a much less selective than the other "first-tier" IR programs.

[DupontCircle]

A bit of a tangent but I was wondering for you guys who have already gone through the process if you might be able to lend some insight though it's rather specific question.

 

Anyway, I was an Econ/History major. With my econ GPA being 3.4, a strong upward trend, Intermediate Micro/Macro for a B/A respectively. However, I had to repeat calc (I didn't go to many classes my first semester) and still got a B- on the repeat. I got a 161 on the quant, my history GPA is 3.9+, but my overall is 3.5. This isn't the end of the world but how much do you think this would hold my application back and, perhaps more importantly, in terms of chances for funding? 

 

Work experience, recs, SoPs etc should all be fine.

[rhodeislander]

Yeah, that sums up everything that I've heard about SAIS and Fletcher too.  Is Georgetown as Econ and Quant heavy as SAIS and SIPA?

 

I'm not sure that I even want to apply to SAIS anymore.  Economics is interesting but I would not enjoy having to take at least four Economics classes (not including the Intermediate classes over the summer) when the program lasts only two years.  It seems like overkill to me.

 

SIPA emphasizes Quants but they don't care as much about GRE scores.  The admissions staff told me get to get over 150 on the Quant section and that they barely look at Verbal scores or Writing scores.  But then again, everything I have heard about SIPA is that it is a much less selective than the other "first-tier" IR programs.

 

I had zero econ experience prior to applying to SAIS, but due to a high GRE quant score (its not that I can't do math, I just don't want to!) and a solid interview I ended up getting in with a nice scholarship. So it definitely can be done. But then, like you, I realized I'm really not that into econ and don't want to come out of grad school as a proto-economist with neocon tendencies (the visit wasn't great either, it was waaay too "DC" for me), and ended up turning SAIS down. I then took my first intro econ course this summer, and lo and behold, found out that econ really isn't my thing and belatedly realized I'd made the right choice to turn them down. I don't know how I ever would have done six classes of that! My point is, if you don't love econ, SAIS is probably not the best choice for you. They love to talk about how 100% of their students come out of SAIS just luuuurving economics, "and you will too if you just give it a chance!" but are you really willing to stake the next two years of your life on that claim when there are equally good and much more flexible programs out there?

Edited August 8, 2013 by rhodeislander

[mrgreen102]

I had zero econ experience prior to applying to SAIS, but due to a high GRE quant score (its not that I can't do math, I just don't want to!) and a solid interview I ended up getting in with a nice scholarship. So it definitely can be done. But then, like you, I realized I'm really not that into econ and don't want to come out of grad school as a proto-economist with neocon tendencies (the visit wasn't great either, it was waaay too "DC" for me), and ended up turning SAIS down. I then took my first intro econ course this summer, and lo and behold, found out that econ really isn't my thing and belatedly realized I'd made the right choice to turn them down. I don't know how I ever would have done six classes of that! My point is, if you don't love econ, SAIS is probably not the best choice for you. They love to talk about how 100% of their students come out of SAIS just luuuurving economics, "and you will too if you just give it a chance!" but are you really willing to stake the next two years of your life on that claim when there are equally good and much more flexible programs out there?

It sounds like you made the right decision.  My Econ/Math situation is pretty much the opposite of yours as I have taken economics courses but will probably be on the low end of the GRE spectrum (low 150s at the highest).  I can do math but I am horrible at standardized test math.

 

I agree that SAIS would not be the best fit.  SAIS has a good reputation and a great location but the program seems pretty rigid with all of its economic requirements and mandatory tests.   I understand the value of economics in policy making but I am interested in diplomacy and defense.  I don't plan on ever working in finance or for the World Bank.  The only advanced economic courses that would help me are game theory and possibly international trade.  Why would I spend thousands of dollars taking courses that I won't enjoy and that won't help me in the long term?

[rhodeislander]

Yeah, they basically straight up tell you "this is what we do. This is a winning formula and its what we think is best for you." Some people like that. Personally, I backed away slowly (although this had just as much to do with their highfalutin attitude and not wanting to get sucked into DC culture, which they were very much steeped in). Its a very impressive school, but quite a bit narrower in the kind of person who would really thrive there, IMO.

[mrgreen102]

Yeah, they basically straight up tell you "this is what we do. This is a winning formula and its what we think is best for you." Some people like that. Personally, I backed away slowly (although this had just as much to do with their highfalutin attitude and not wanting to get sucked into DC culture, which they were very much steeped in). Its a very impressive school, but quite a bit narrower in the kind of person who would really thrive there, IMO.

What was your opinion of Georgetown?  I was considering the MSFS program for awhile but it looks really selective.  I also know someone who just graduated from there and they don't have a job yet.  I figure I'll monitor their progress before I commit to applying there in a year or so.

[rhodeislander]

What was your opinion of Georgetown?  I was considering the MSFS program for awhile but it looks really selective.  I also know someone who just graduated from there and they don't have a job yet.  I figure I'll monitor their progress before I commit to applying there in a year or so.

I actually came out of it with a pretty good opinion, all things considered. By that point I'd been in DC a few days and was pretty tired and fed up (if I hadn't driven this home enough, I really hate that city!), and I knew I probably wouldn't be going to Georgetown for price reasons, but I still came out of the open house with a positive impression. They were much more laid back than SAIS, and just came off as more...confident? Confident is probably the best word. I guess when you're #1 in the rankings you have less to prove (and yes, rankings are silly and arbitrary, but they are the first way a lot of people perceive you). They weren't so in your face with how awesome and amazing they are, and I liked how it seemed like a much smaller, more intimate cohort where you could really get to know your classmates and professors. The student population was basically the same as SAIS, with a lot of the same students visiting both...everyone was very professional, very policy-oriented. I felt like a damn flower child amongst all the Accenture and BoozAllen people. You do have a few prereqs your first year, including some quant courses (I think stats, trade, and finance?), but still much more flexible than SAIS.

A few more things: First, they are VERY professional in their orientation. Of course, so is SAIS, but Georgetown really emphasizes professional skills over all else. They straight up said to us we probably would not be writing any papers longer than five pages, because they are essentially training you to churn out memos the way your future State Department bosses want them. That was a turn off for me, but for others that could be a positive.

I would also point out that Georgetown is more known for placing people into government work, just as SAIS is a bit better known for private sector. Someone called them "the West Point of the Foreign Service." Of course this is far from 100% (SAIS produces its share of public sector types and vice versa), but maybe something to keep in mind depending on what your goals are.

Finally, their admissions rate is lower than the others, but its still not particulary low when compared to correspondingly prestigious business and law schools. I believe its around 25%. I had some real holes in my app and still managed to get in, so I would by no means rule it out if you like it. Just treat it as a reach school. I would NOT be overly concerned about your employment prospects. Their 6 month employment figure last year was 95%, which is about the same as SAIS and Fletcher, if not slightly higher. While the economy and sequestration make things tougher for everyone, if you go to one of the top schools you should be fine...or at least better off than people who didn't.

If you go into my profiles and click on "reputation," I have an older post giving some impressions on my visit to SAIS. Feel free to check it out.

Edited August 9, 2013 by rhodeislander

[mrgreen102]

I actually came out of it with a pretty good opinion, all things considered. By that point I'd been in DC a few days and was pretty tired and fed up (if I hadn't driven this home enough, I really hate that city!), and I knew I probably wouldn't be going to Georgetown for price reasons, but I still came out of the open house with a positive impression. They were much more laid back than SAIS, and just came off as more...confident? Confident is probably the best word. I guess when you're #1 in the rankings you have less to prove (and yes, rankings are silly and arbitrary, but they are the first way a lot of people perceive you). They weren't so in your face with how awesome and amazing they are, and I liked how it seemed like a much smaller, more intimate cohort where you could really get to know your classmates and professors. The student population was basically the same as SAIS, with a lot of the same students visiting both...everyone was very professional, very policy-oriented. I felt like a damn flower child amongst all the Accenture and BoozAllen people. You do have a few prereqs your first year, including some quant courses (I think stats, trade, and finance?), but still much more flexible than SAIS.

A few more things: First, they are VERY professional in their orientation. Of course, so is SAIS, but Georgetown really emphasizes professional skills over all else. They straight up said to us we probably would not be writing any papers longer than five pages, because they are essentially training you to churn out memos the way your future State Department bosses want them. That was a turn off for me, but for others that could be a positive.

I would also point out that Georgetown is more known for placing people into government work, just as SAIS is a bit better known for private sector. Someone called them "the West Point of the Foreign Service." Of course this is far from 100% (SAIS produces its share of public sector types and vice versa), but maybe something to keep in mind depending on what your goals are.

Finally, their admissions rate is lower than the others, but its still not particulary low when compared to correspondingly prestigious business and law schools. I believe its around 25%. I had some real holes in my app and still managed to get in, so I would by no means rule it out if you like it. Just treat it as a reach school. I would NOT be overly concerned about your employment prospects. Their 6 month employment figure last year was 95%, which is about the same as SAIS and Fletcher, if not slightly higher. While the economy and sequestration make things tougher for everyone, if you go to one of the top schools you should be fine...or at least better off than people who didn't.

If you go into my profiles and click on "reputation," I have an older post giving some impressions on my visit to SAIS. Feel free to check it out.

Thanks for the information.  My goal is to eventually go to an elite B-school like Harvard and make as much money as possible (this is a joke by the way as I am not so-subtly mocking an old member of this forum.  Those old JHU threads are hilarious by the way).

 

Georgetown's program does align more closely with my interests than JHU.  But it would be a reach.  I don't plan on applying for at least a year though as I want more quant course experience and work experience under my belt besides years of teaching in China.

 

Out of curiosity, what drove you to Fletcher?  A desire to work in policy but not be part of the Washington, D.C. scene?  What do you want to do after the program ends?

Edited August 11, 2013 by mrgreen102

[rhodeislander]

Thanks for the information.  My goal is to eventually go to an elite B-school like Harvard and make as much money as possible (this is a joke by the way as I am not so-subtly mocking an old member of this forum.  Those old JHU threads are hilarious by the way).

 

Georgetown's program does align more closely with my interests than JHU.  But it would be a reach.  I don't plan on applying for at least a year though as I want more quant course experience and work experience under my belt besides years of teaching in China.

 

Out of curiosity, what drove you to Fletcher?  A desire to work in policy but not be part of the Washington, D.C. scene?  What do you want to do after the program ends?

Haha, for a second I was like, that sounds oddly familiar...yeah, the JHU threads were a hoot, it basically just devolved into a conversation about whether a certain poster was trolling or not. It got really bizarre at one point when he started talking about how no one will respect him and he'll never get a date again if he goes to SAIS. I really do wonder what became of him...

Fletcher was basically the best all around compromise. Which isn't exactly the most ringing endorsement, but that's how it shook out. Georgetown was too expensive. SAIS was clearly not for me as I described above. Syracuse was not on the same level as the others. Chicago was probably the best fit and the one I was most excited about, but after visiting I couldn't shake the feeling it was way too theoretical, lacked practical training and was kind of clueless at finding you employment outside academia. But alas, the heart wanted Chicago. A couple years ago I would've just done Chicago and found a job myself, but I was sort of forced out of my field of expertise due to health reasons (long story short, due to an underlying health problem I can't be living in the third world anymore), so I'm basically starting from scratch here and thus need a strong alumnae network and job placement record. Fletcher seemed nice, good community, good courses, good reputation, etc. I liked how it was outside the beltway (although a lot of people deride it for precisely that reason) and was a bit more academic in its outlook rather than purely professional. They also offered me a decent aid package. Yeah, that's about it. It was the only one that didn't have any major strikes against it, haha. Honestly, I no longer know what I'm going to do with it now that I can no longer do the Indiana Jones stuff that was my bread and butter, which sucks. I definitely don't want to be working in a 9-5 office job. I do like IR, so I figure I'll go for at least one year and hopefully find something new I like...and if not, back to the drawing board (I'm also strongly considering a history PhD). Haha sorry, probably not the response you were looking for.

Where exactly in China were you? I spent three years in Beijing and a semester in Xinjiang.

Edited August 12, 2013 by rhodeislander

[jct329]

I remember when I was strongly considering law schools that the law school sites would all say that LSATs and GPAs were looked at as part of a wider application, but it was complete crap.  It's pretty well known that for top law schools, it's about 75% LSAT, 20% GPA, and 5% everything else.  Are MPP/MPA programs a lot different when it comes to that?  Do they seem to consider soft factors qute a bit more?  I'd assume that they still want to maintain a reasonably high GRE/GPA average.

[mrgreen102]

I remember when I was strongly considering law schools that the law school sites would all say that LSATs and GPAs were looked at as part of a wider application, but it was complete crap.  It's pretty well known that for top law schools, it's about 75% LSAT, 20% GPA, and 5% everything else.  Are MPP/MPA programs a lot different when it comes to that?  Do they seem to consider soft factors qute a bit more?  I'd assume that they still want to maintain a reasonably high GRE/GPA average.

I would imagine that MPP/MPA programs are similar to IR graduate programs in that your GPA/GRE scores are only considered a part of your application.  Most programs seem to focus on work experience, personal essays, etc.  With that said, I have been told that it really hurts your application if your GPA is below a 3.0.  You also want to do well on the GRE but I don't know if average scores disqualify you from any programs.  But poor scores may hurt funding opportunities.