NSF GRFP 2013-14

[Char123]

Hey guys. 

I'm an aerospace engineering major and will be applying for the GRFP. I am in my senior year of undergraduate studies. 

 

I've been reading some past successful essays and many of them seemed to have some kind of tutoring/outreach experience. Unfortunately, I do not have extensive experience in any of this, only minor experiences such as speaking to high school students for a few hours, helping other students occasionally on hw, none of which (IMO) would be beneficial to add in my statement.

Will this really hurt me?

Also, I am not part of an underrepresented group. 

 

My proposed research area has a lot of potential for global outreach however so that would be a boost to the broader impacts area, but I personally have not had much experience with broader impacts outside of the research projects I have done. 

[Eigen]

I think it will hurt you, the question is how much. 

 

Ideally, you want to be able to show past broader impacts as evidence that you will follow through with what you're proposing. 

[Char123]

I think it will hurt you, the question is how much. 

 

Ideally, you want to be able to show past broader impacts as evidence that you will follow through with what you're proposing.

What if I explained the broader impacts of my past 'research' experience or is that not enough?

[Eigen]

There is no "enough" was the point I was trying to make. Awards are competitive. Any area you're weak in that someone else isn't will "harm" your application. How much it harms it depends on the other strength of their applications, and your package as a whole.

I would say it isn't important what your broader impacts were, but rather that you have significant broader impacts for your past work to discuss.

Also, you've given no specifics on your past research experience and its broader impacts, and I'm not sure why you're setting out research in past 'research' experience, so giving much detailed feedback as to its value is difficult.

Working on a team that designed a low cost prosthetic device for use in third world countries would be very different than other experiences, for example.

[Char123]

There is no "enough" was the point I was trying to make. Awards are competitive. Any area you're weak in that someone else isn't will "harm" your application. How much it harms it depends on the other strength of their applications, and your package as a whole.

I would say it isn't important what your broader impacts were, but rather that you have significant broader impacts for your past work to discuss.

Also, you've given no specifics on your past research experience and its broader impacts, and I'm not sure why you're setting out research in past 'research' experience, so giving much detailed feedback as to its value is difficult.

Working on a team that designed a low cost prosthetic device for use in third world countries would be very different than other experiences, for example.

What I meant was I may not be able to talk much, or at all, about my past broader impacts from a outreach point of view or any other, but I can talk about the broader impacts my past research experience has had. 

 

Regarding your example, I do not have any experience I consider to be on that level of impact. 

[Char123]

I used to volunteer for Habitat for Humanity and accumulated a few hundred hours of volunteering (building houses primarily). This was done during my freshman year of college. I'm not sure if this would be pertinent to my application as this really has nothing to do with engineering and I can't think of a way to incorporate it. 

 

 

Oh and btw, when you mention an experience (research or nonresearch), does it have to be mentioned in one of your letters of recommendation? If not, then how does the trust issue work for this? Are they just supposed to take your word for it? Is it on the honor system? 

This comes back to my above volunteering experience, which I haven't mentioned to my letter writers. 

Edited September 1, 2013 by charlies1902

[vertices]

@charlies1902 Any experience is strengthened by having a letter writer also be able to talk about it. However, it's not necessary. The application is on the honor system and you'll attest to the honesty of your application as part of the form. Also just having members of the academic community willing to write strong letters for you implies that at least three trusted individuals trust you not to lie. Most people who can get strong letters wouldn't betray that trust.

 

It's commonly suggested to supply letter writers with your CV and essays so they can better tailor their letters. If possible, you might also want to sit down and discuss your approach with them. Also, while they probably don't need it, it's good to remind them about the intellectual merit and broader impacts criteria.

 

Based on what you've said here, I would briefly refer to your work with high schools as experience that led you to develop your broader impacts plan in your project proposal. If you can think of any, use an anecdote from this experience to illustrate your strategy or show you've gotten results before. You might be able to work in your Habitat for Humanity experience to show your ability to work on a diverse team and to explain how you've experienced first hand the realities of outreach -- what did you learn about what works, what is difficult to do, what a lot of time and money goes to that people don't often think about, how to recruit people, etc?

[Char123]

@charlies1902 Any experience is strengthened by having a letter writer also be able to talk about it. However, it's not necessary. The application is on the honor system and you'll attest to the honesty of your application as part of the form. Also just having members of the academic community willing to write strong letters for you implies that at least three trusted individuals trust you not to lie. Most people who can get strong letters wouldn't betray that trust.

 

It's commonly suggested to supply letter writers with your CV and essays so they can better tailor their letters. If possible, you might also want to sit down and discuss your approach with them. Also, while they probably don't need it, it's good to remind them about the intellectual merit and broader impacts criteria.

 

Based on what you've said here, I would briefly refer to your work with high schools as experience that led you to develop your broader impacts plan in your project proposal. If you can think of any, use an anecdote from this experience to illustrate your strategy or show you've gotten results before. You might be able to work in your Habitat for Humanity experience to show your ability to work on a diverse team and to explain how you've experienced first hand the realities of outreach -- what did you learn about what works, what is difficult to do, what a lot of time and money goes to that people don't often think about, how to recruit people, etc?

Thanks for all the replies.

I participated in an NSF REU program this summer and there was a week long outreach event that I participated in that reached out to top high school students around the country. I am also getting a letter from my mentor in that program. I am considering reminding him about this outreach event I did so he can mention it in the letter, but I don't know a good way to do this. I feel like I may be a bit condescending if I told a writer "you need to include this and this, blah blah blah." He tends to be a bit forgetful at times so I'm not sure if he'll remember to put that in. 

 

As for Habitat for Humanity, it was a very good experience, from a philanthropy point of view. My personal statement, relevant background, and future goals essay is divided into sections(subject to change):

1) Research Experience

2) Graduate School and Future Goals

3) Outreach Events (Maybe?)

4) Summary of intellectual merit and broader impacts (although I will have talked about this with each research experience and outreach event I mention). 

 

I'm thinking I can maybe fit in habitat for humanity under outreach events, but it is hard to fit this in from an engineering perspective. From what I've seen, applicant's outreach events seem to be related to their major. 

Edited September 1, 2013 by charlies1902

[warbrain]

As a first year grad student, should I ask someone at my graduate school for a recommendation?  I've heard that it looks bad to not have a recommendation from your advisor or someone from your school, but considering that no one even knows me yet (school starts tomorrow) I feel like the recommendation won't be that great.

[Eigen]

You'll want to push for relationships at your new school, imo. 

 

I'd say having 1-2 letters from your undergrad is fine, but you'd want to get at least 1 from your graduate program. 

[guttata]

As a first year grad student, should I ask someone at my graduate school for a recommendation?  I've heard that it looks bad to not have a recommendation from your advisor or someone from your school, but considering that no one even knows me yet (school starts tomorrow) I feel like the recommendation won't be that great.

 

You should absolute have your new graduate adviser as one of your letters. If YOU were a panel member, what would you think of a student who's own adviser wasn't recommending their research for funding?

[mrmalawi]

@guttata - While it might be best for @warbrain to clarify, it sounds like he may not have an adviser. he said no one knows him...I am in the same situation but pushing to get some good relationships built.

[warbrain]

Yea, I don't have an advisor yet, and even if I did, I doubt he would be able to say much about me after only two months.

[guttata]

Apologies. I assumed you had one since you made a comment specifically about getting a letter from your advisor. My second assumption is that you're doing a rotation, and recommend that your rotation PI write one. S/He should sit down and talk with you about what you've done in the past and what your plans are going forward (e.g., review your NSF research proposal). The important thing is that, while they haven't known you long, you should have shown them something in this time frame to prove that you've got potential. Step one in that was getting admitted to the program. They should be able to write a letter for you regarding your intelligence, work ethic, etc, even if you've not had the chance to go wire to wire on a project with them.

[Eigen]

You don't have one now because you haven't started yet. But will you have one in a few weeks?

 

If so, they need to right one. 

 

If not, you really need to get a professor who is not your advisor to write one- someone you're taking classes, or working on a project with. 

 

You know you need to build relationships for this, so start off strong when your semester starts. 

[Char123]

I've heard that it is best to have a sentence at the end of each research experience describing the broader impacts of that research. The current research project I am working on is funded by a company and in my opinion, is really only beneficial to that company. I don't quite see how I can speak about the impacts of this project on a broader level.

Has anyone had that experience? What did you end up doing?

[vertices]

FWIW, I applied as a first year and didn't get a letter from my advisor though I was offered the award. I had three strong letters, one from outside undergraduate, from people who had worked with me on research projects though. Furthermore, my school starts later than most so I hadn't built much of a relationships with my advisor at the time. If I didn't have three strong research experience letters (e.g. instead a 'did well in my classes' from undergrad), my advisor would have made more sense though. [Aside: this is my first time seeing guttata's userpic, it amuses me much.]

[Faraday]

Is there a breakdown somewhere of how the 2,700 awards are doled out amongs the disciplines and sub-discilines. I'm particuarily curious about chemistry and chemical synthesis.

[vertices]

Is there a breakdown somewhere of how the 2,700 awards are doled out amongs the disciplines and sub-discilines. I'm particuarily curious about chemistry and chemical synthesis.

The awards are divided amongst fields of study based roughly on the percentage of applications from that field of study. It doesn't change too much between years, so you can look at last years. I downloaded the spreadsheet from Fastlane and see 166 of 2,065 awards went to Chemistry and of those 46 went to Chemistry - Chemical Synthesis. That's 8% and 2.2% respectively, or 217 and 60 awards of 2,700.

However, since these are proportionally divided, you can think of the awardee rate as being similar to the total number of awards divided by the total number of applicants. Last year there were 13,000 applicants. If that stays the same he awardee rate is near 20%, or one in five. Of course, looking at it that way alone, it should attract more applicants...

Edited September 4, 2013 by vertices

[Eigen]

Synthesis is usually the biggest award area in chemistry, but since it's proportional to application, the competition is roughly the same in each discipline and subdiscipline. 

 

It's worth noting that I'm relatively certain they don't divide panels by subdiscipline, however, so your proposal should be clear and straightforward to a chemist not in your field- it's one of the biggest challenges with the short format. You can't use field conventions and jargon to make a concise argument, you need to walk the line between being detailed and specific in your research proposal while making it broadly comprehensible. 

[mrmalawi]

So, I have tried to post this on the main page a number of times and it keeps getting removed - maybe it should have been in a reply here to begin with or maybe someone doesn't like me or...maybe I am blind.

 

Last year I applied as an at large candidate while I was applying to graduate schools.  The biggest criticisms I received (which were major in scope) were my lack of rigorous undergraduate courses in the life sciences and lack of formal research experience.  My undergraduate studies were in the social sciences - international relations and while I have a lot of community outreach experience I never completed any formal research at the university I attended.  I did work for a local municipality after my graduation where I helped compile data to be used to get federal funding for some building retrofits and solar panel installations but for some reason I did not think that would be a good research topic to explain.  Instead I talked about a training project that I have to solicit funding for and organize while I was with the Peace Corps in Malawi.

 

Anyhow, my question really has to do with how to approach how I will be rectifying these things in the coming year.  I am planning to take the life science courses that I am lacking and get into a lab which would give me the research skills I would need.  I am just unsure of how to plug these into my application and where.  Should they go in one essay or the other?  If it helps, I am planning to focus on research looking at agricultural sustainability research in the developing world.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Faraday]

Synthesis is usually the biggest award area in chemistry, but since it's proportional to application, the competition is roughly the same in each discipline and subdiscipline. 

 

It's worth noting that I'm relatively certain they don't divide panels by subdiscipline, however, so your proposal should be clear and straightforward to a chemist not in your field- it's one of the biggest challenges with the short format. You can't use field conventions and jargon to make a concise argument, you need to walk the line between being detailed and specific in your research proposal while making it broadly comprehensible. 

 

The latter point is good to know, I will probably have to tone things down a bit in the research proposal. That's good as I was a little lengthy there.

 

It will be interesting to see how I do. I have lots of research experience: two summer fellowships at a government lab, several years of research during undergrad, multiple presentations, and will likely a very high-impact paper (third author) paper based on some physical/analytical work I did this past summer by the time November rolls around. Unfortunately, however none of that research was in synthetic organic chemistry, the government work was analytical chemistry and the undergraduate research was related analytical and physical chemistry. Since I've started graduate school I've already joined a lab (informally) and things are going well there, I love the synthetic research and in just a few weeks I have learned a great deal but in terms of synthetic research I am still a "newbie".

 

Any suggestions for how best to spin or sell the previous research in the best possible light? I have a pretty good grasp of my new group's research goals and directions so my research statement should be solid.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Faraday

[Eigen]

So, I have tried to post this on the main page a number of times and it keeps getting removed - maybe it should have been in a reply here to begin with or maybe someone doesn't like me or...maybe I am blind.

 

Last year I applied as an at large candidate while I was applying to graduate schools.  The biggest criticisms I received (which were major in scope) were my lack of rigorous undergraduate courses in the life sciences and lack of formal research experience.  My undergraduate studies were in the social sciences - international relations and while I have a lot of community outreach experience I never completed any formal research at the university I attended.  I did work for a local municipality after my graduation where I helped compile data to be used to get federal funding for some building retrofits and solar panel installations but for some reason I did not think that would be a good research topic to explain.  Instead I talked about a training project that I have to solicit funding for and organize while I was with the Peace Corps in Malawi.

 

Anyhow, my question really has to do with how to approach how I will be rectifying these things in the coming year.  I am planning to take the life science courses that I am lacking and get into a lab which would give me the research skills I would need.  I am just unsure of how to plug these into my application and where.  Should they go in one essay or the other?  If it helps, I am planning to focus on research looking at agricultural sustainability research in the developing world.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Off topic, but your original post is still there (). I've removed several duplicates, as double or triple posting is agains the policies of this (and most) message boards. 

[InquilineKea]

Can I apply if I'm on medical leave and the chances of returning from leave are very low, such that I might be applying for grad programs next year?

 

I've only finished one year of graduate education.

 

If so, would I be at a disadvantage because I would be compared to other 2nd-years? [1] (even though the position I'm in means that I would basically be in the same position as college seniors applying to grad programs, since I don't believe that any of my credits will transfer over if I do transfer)? I wasn't able to do any research in my first year - only courses.

 

My situation is basically severe versions of both comorbid ADD and Asperger's - at this point I have a lot of red flags so maybe I might as well have to mention them and depend on the luck of the draw with reviewers?

 

ADD is also relevant because my grades are poor and I was only able to get the necessary medication towards the last 2 years of my UG study (after which my grades really improved, though they're still not perfect). 

 

Do you think that maybe I could also mention that I'm working with a social coach to try to address the issues of comorbid ADD and Asperger's that got me forced into medical leave to begin with? 

 

[1] I wonder if people doing joint BS-MS programs might also be at sort of a similar disadvantage..

Edited September 4, 2013 by InquilineKea

[jmu]

The application asks about medical conditions, if you wish to disclose them. As for your eligibility, you are still eligible and will probably need to address the research and coursework areas in your statement.