Taking doctoral-level courses as a masters-level student. Good idea?

[Yetanotherdegree]

I'm trying to sort out my courses for registration next week and I'm interested in a doctoral-level seminar that will admit only a few masters-level students. I'm wondering if it is worth taking a doctoral-level course as a masters-level student.

Are they that different?

How complicated is the process to enroll as a masters-level student?

And do doctoral programs look favorably on applicants who have successfully completed classes at the doctoral level?

Good idea? Or not?

Thanks for any info!

[Fnkyfreshman]

Great idea. You definitely want to do this. You will at least be able to comment on the level of work you have accomplished and you may be able to snag a rec from it. You just need to do really well in the course.

[Kuriakos]

I took all my ThM classes at the doctoral level. Best decision I ever made.

[AbrasaxEos]

I'd second these suggestions, with the only caveat that you need to be sure that you are able to maintain the level of discussion and work required for the course, as you likely do not want to be remembered as the master's student who got in over his or her head in the doctoral seminar!  I did a number of doctoral seminars when I was doing my M.A. at Yale and it was, as Kuriakos notes, a good decision (mostly because they were Hebrew Bible seminars and it helped me to realize that I wasn't actually that interested in that area of study).  The most important area to discern here is the language preparation necessary, as at YDS there were in a number of instances in which a M* student or two jumped into a doctoral seminar (say one in the DSS), where the abilitiy to read unpointed texts was a necessity.  The students couldn't really hack it and it ended up being an annoying experience for those of us who could, as they would sti there and butcher their way through the translation, wasting a lot of time.  The prof. (a well-known DSS scholar at YDS who you may be familiar with) eventually just stopped calling on them.  Kind of embarassing.

[sacklunch]

For bible related courses, Abrasax is absolutely correct. Though I think it depends on what kind of program/department you're in. When I was at BC, for example, I almost took a doctoral DSS course and after speaking with the professor I decided to not take it, due mostly to the comments above. Reading a lot of unpointed Hebrew with advanced students (many of them had 4-5 years of masters work before beginning their PhD) is....dangerous. On the other hand here at Duke there is less an emphasis on the philology approach, I think, and as a result the students seem a bit less interested (prepared?) for those kinds of courses. Meh, just speak with the professor and they should be able to give you a pretty good idea of the level you need to be at (esp. with language requirements).

 

<3

[Kuriakos]

jdm has it right. The prof will let you know what they expect, and if you think you can do that then go for it. If I recall correctly, though, at one point you said you didn't have Latin or Greek. That might be a problem depending on how the class is structured. 

[Yetanotherdegree]

Thanks, everyone. I'm trying to decide between two courses, one of which seems easier, but also perhaps less helpful. The easier course is masters-level and interesting, but also at a less than perfect time for me, and with a small scheduling conflict that would mean that I would have to miss several classes.

The doctoral-level course is also relevant and interesting and does not seem to have any language requirements. The prof is asking masters students to petition for entry. Is that typical?

Anyway, with my scheduling/work conflict, I think I'm going with the doctoral level course. It sounds fascinating. And hard.

[Kuriakos]

Every prof is different. One prof asked me who I worked with during my MA (I guess he like the prof I named), one asked me to fill out a long detailed petition, and one just wanted to know if I'd ever taken a doctoral seminar before. I had several who basically would let any ThM student into a seminar. 

[drivingthoughts]

I took a PhD course in the first year of my MDiv, and it was awesome; I have another scheduled for this year.  Excellent way to network with other students, and if you do well, you'll be on the professor's good side for courses down the road.  I would echo the comments above, though - try not to get in too far over your head.  Most professors will understand that you won't have the full grasp that the PhD students do on the topic, but they will expect you to try, hard as you can.  Also, if you haven't taken one before, PhD courses typically involve thousands of pages of reading.  If you're on an otherwise tight schedule, a PhD course can wreck your other classes.    Another note on requirements: often a course won't list language requirements; however, if the course is on someone like Barth, it would be very helpful to know German, etc.

 

Just my two cents.  Enjoy whatever you do.