How Do Language Placement Tests Work?

[cadences]

Hi All,

 

Sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but I am looking at my options for summer classical Greek and University College Cork offers an 8-week intensive program that is 20 ECTS, which is about 10 US credits, and so is equivalent to one-and-a-half years of Greek. Since second-year Greek is usually broken up into Intermediate I and II, is it possible to test out of Intermediate I and so enrol in Intermediate II at most colleges/universities, or do they only set whole-year sequence tests such that mid-sequence testing is not possible?

 

Thanks!

[ἠφανισμένος]

The answer varies by department. In my own case, I was able to walk into fourth-semester Latin based only on my own claim that I could do the work. But I don't think you can make the ECTS to US credits conversion quite so simply. Eight weeks at Cork might prepare you for fourth-semester Greek or it might actually prepare you for third-semester Greek. It depends on what you're reading at the end of the course and the standards of the US classics department.

[cadences]

The answer varies by department. In my own case, I was able to walk into fourth-semester Latin based only on my own claim that I could do the work. But I don't think you can make the ECTS to US credits conversion quite so simply. Eight weeks at Cork might prepare you for fourth-semester Greek or it might actually prepare you for third-semester Greek. It depends on what you're reading at the end of the course and the standards of the US classics department.

 

Roger that, Petros. Cork says that their intensive Greek course covers "nearly two years of instruction", so I thought taking that to mean three semesters of Greek was erring on the safe side, but apparently not. I appreciate the heads up.

[ἠφανισμένος]

Ah, you're right, it does say "nearly two years." I missed that when I looked it up. But that's a lot of material to cover in eight weeks.

[cadences]

Ah, you're right, it does say "nearly two years." I missed that when I looked it up. But that's a lot of material to cover in eight weeks.

 

Yes, it is. So, given that UPenn takes 97.5 hours to do a year's worth of Greek over the summer and Cork's curriculum comes to a total of 136 hours (sans final exam), I think that the course is really worth three semesters of Greek. They do say that the whole afternoon is free for personal study, which means a Lot of homework, I think. I suspect that's how they manage to squeeze that much Greek in in such a short period of time. But I don't think four semesters in eight weeks is possible.

[cadences]

Hey Petros, I emailed Cork and just received a reply - according to the director of the summer session, the course "basically covers 1.5 years' tuition" and will "take you up to intermediate level in prose". She is quite confident that I can test out of the prose half of the typical second-year sequence. Thanks for the discussion, btw!

[AbrasaxEos]

Coming in a bit late here - but to echo Petros, at most of the places I have taken Greek, the understanding was more or less that if you felt as though you could handle the work, you could take the course.  I would guess that this is a better indication than just a certain number of semesters.  In some ways it is good to be able to give evidence for your marinating in the language for a certain amount of time, but from my experience there were often a number of different cases.  Some people have a truly impressive number of credit hours in a language, but just don't seem to have a knack for it and still struggle through while others seem to be unbelievably good despite being totally self-taught. I had a person like this in a Greek class at YDS - a woman who basically read some of Hansen and Quinn everyday during her lunch break for four years, walked into a syntax & stylisitics course and made all of us with our impressive coursework backgrounds look like absolute amateurs. 

 

Having taken three "placement" style exams during my academic career thus far, they have typically been something like 12 -15 lines of Greek of moderate to just beyond moderate difficulty in an hour.  If you want to see some examples from HDS, you can go here:

 

http://www.hds.harvard.edu/sites/hds.harvard.edu/files/attachments/academics/registrar/language-qualifying-exams/31231/GreekLanguageExams.pdf

[cadences]

Coming in a bit late here - but to echo Petros, at most of the places I have taken Greek, the understanding was more or less that if you felt as though you could handle the work, you could take the course.  I would guess that this is a better indication than just a certain number of semesters.  In some ways it is good to be able to give evidence for your marinating in the language for a certain amount of time, but from my experience there were often a number of different cases.  Some people have a truly impressive number of credit hours in a language, but just don't seem to have a knack for it and still struggle through while others seem to be unbelievably good despite being totally self-taught. I had a person like this in a Greek class at YDS - a woman who basically read some of Hansen and Quinn everyday during her lunch break for four years, walked into a syntax & stylisitics course and made all of us with our impressive coursework backgrounds look like absolute amateurs. 

 

Having taken three "placement" style exams during my academic career thus far, they have typically been something like 12 -15 lines of Greek of moderate to just beyond moderate difficulty in an hour.  If you want to see some examples from HDS, you can go here:

 

http://www.hds.harvard.edu/sites/hds.harvard.edu/files/attachments/academics/registrar/language-qualifying-exams/31231/GreekLanguageExams.pdf

 

Oy gevalt. That is both impressive and intimidating. Do you think getting a copy of Hansen and Quinn to keep as a reference is a good idea (Cork uses JACT's Reading Greek)? And thanks for the link! Being able to get a concrete sense of what a placement exam is like is really helpful.

[sacklunch]

I would def. get a copy of H&Q for reference. Though the unfortunate thing about the book is there are no official answers for its sentences. At the intermediate to advanced stage I have found Smyth's grammar to be quite useful (much to my surprise, since at first glance it appears impenetrable...).  

[cadences]

Thanks for that note, furtivemode. A friend of mine recommended Mastronarde, though (and wrinkled his nose at H&Q while he was at it, haha) - care to share your thoughts on that?

[sacklunch]

Thanks for that note, furtivemode. A friend of mine recommended Mastronarde, though (and wrinkled his nose at H&Q while he was at it, haha) - care to share your thoughts on that?

 

Good question. That said, no idea! I have never used it. We used HQ in my early days, and I also worked through Athenaze later on, since it's a bit 'kinder.' Honestly, there are so many Grammars these days it's a matter of preference. 

 

One book that I very much recommend that is the somewhat recent intermediate 'grammar' by Pratt:

http://www.amazon.com/Eros-Banquet-Reviewing-Symposium-Classical/dp/0806141425/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380842183&sr=1-2&keywords=plato%27s+symposium+greek

 

She basically takes you through the Symposium and slowly gets you up to speed. The first part of the book has the original text edited, since (as you may know) most of the work is written in indirect speech. Before each section Pratt will give a quick lesson and then give you the text with a good amount of notes (with references to other grammars, too). By a couple chapters in you are reading the original Greek.

 

I also recommend the companion to this book, which I still use all the time as a quick reference (when I'm like...'wait, what is a future less vivid again?!"):

http://www.amazon.com/The-Essentials-Greek-Grammar-Intermediate/dp/0806141433/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y

 

hope some of that helps you??

Edited October 3, 2013 by furtivemode

[cadences]

Good question. That said, no idea! I have never used it. We used HQ in my early days, and I also worked through Athenaze later on, since it's a bit 'kinder.' Honestly, there are so many Grammars these days it's a matter of preference. 

 

One book that I very much recommend that is the somewhat recent intermediate 'grammar' by Pratt:

http://www.amazon.com/Eros-Banquet-Reviewing-Symposium-Classical/dp/0806141425/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380842183&sr=1-2&keywords=plato%27s+symposium+greek

 

She basically takes you through the Symposium and slowly gets you up to speed. The first part of the book has the original text edited, since (as you may know) most of the work is written in indirect speech. Before each section Pratt will give a quick lesson and then give you the text with a good amount of notes (with references to other grammars, too). By a couple chapters in you are reading the original Greek.

 

I also recommend the companion to this book, which I still use all the time as a quick reference (when I'm like...'wait, what is a future less vivid again?!"):

http://www.amazon.com/The-Essentials-Greek-Grammar-Intermediate/dp/0806141433/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y

 

hope some of that helps you?

 

This definitely helps! I will put all of these suggestions into my Amazon cart and slowly make my mind up...I have until next summer, so I have a Lot of time to chew on what to blow my (paltry) scholarship allowance on