Applying to other PhD programs after failing quals.

[ChondroitinSulfate]

Long story short, I failed my qualifying exams after some health issues, leaving my department with an MA and a 3.6 GPA, still want to pursue graduate studies, sure that I could pass most qualifying exams (my bioscience department has a comp written exam that tests everything learned in the past year; I'm sure I'd do just fine with drafting an R01 and defending it). Any advice or opinions about viability would be great - did my undergrad and MA both in pretty good schools, both with half-decent GPAs, probably around four years of research experience when I graduate, though no publications when I apply. I'm probably applying anyways, because I don't have any compelling reason not to and two compelling reasons to do so (because I like this rigor of bioscience that much and it actually makes my two-body problem easier), though I'm also looking into industry and science writing opportunities equally.

 

Real question, though, is that I've seen this on several applications:

 

 

Have you ever been suspended, dismissed, expelled or required to withdraw from any high school or college for academic or disciplinary reasons? (An affirmative response will not automatically prevent admission, but any omission or falsification is grounds for denial or rescission of admission, or expulsion.)

 

 

How do I answer this? Do I answer "yes" and explain failing quals and switching to an MA because it's a dismissal from the PhD program, or "no" because it's neither college nor high school and I'm not dismissed/withdrawn from the department/school, but rather switched into a terminal MA program? Just not sure what that question is asking for. Should I contact the schools and ask?

[TexasGuy]

no...definitely put no...you weren't suspended, expelled, dismissed or required to withdraw from the COLLEGE

you were just forced to switch from PhD to MA.....

dont try to be brutally honest and 'do the right thing'...that will make it very easy for them to dismiss your app without giving you a chance

then you've wasted your money, effort and time

[Loric]

My app had a similar sort of prompt about academic probation and I put "no" of course, cuz.. I didn't, i withdrew.

 

Unbeknownst to myself, my transcript said that I was and was listed as failing an entire semester (I thought i had withdrawn proper-like.. gee, thanks old school.. i knew there was a reason I left you.)

 

So I panic, email admissions advisor. He tells me to try and get it fixed (at this point "fat chance" - ever try to reason with the records department for grades from over 3 years ago?) He says all else fails they just require another document/letter/etc.. explaining the how/why/what of it that they consider when looking at your whole app.

 

And if i had never mentioned my other grad school they'd have never known it existed and i'd never have had this problem. Oh well. Can't go back in time and undo what's been done.

[juilletmercredi]

...a lot of departments have written exams that test you on everything you learned in the past year.  My department has written exams in the third year that test you on everything you've learned until then and then oral exams that are typically taken in the 3rd or 4th year that are also cumulative.

 

To the question, you answer "yes."  You didn't switch to a terminal MA program by choice; you were forced to switch because you failed your quals.  This is also a very easy thing to verify - a simple call to your old department (or a mention in a recommendation letter) tells the truth, and if you hide it you look dishonest.  It's best to be upfront about failing your quals but explaining that you have health reasons for that and also think that the program was maybe not the best fit, so you are a looking for a better fit program.

 

Of course, you can always ask first and clarify with the departmental administrator.  However, I would assume that your intended new department(s) will want to know that you failed your qualifying exams, and will want an appropriate explanation for that.

[ChondroitinSulfate]

 

...a lot of departments have written exams that test you on everything you learned in the past year.  My department has written exams in the third year that test you on everything you've learned until then and then oral exams that are typically taken in the 3rd or 4th year that are also cumulative.

 

To the question, you answer "yes."  You didn't switch to a terminal MA program by choice; you were forced to switch because you failed your quals.  This is also a very easy thing to verify - a simple call to your old department (or a mention in a recommendation letter) tells the truth, and if you hide it you look dishonest.  It's best to be upfront about failing your quals but explaining that you have health reasons for that and also think that the program was maybe not the best fit, so you are a looking for a better fit program.

 

Of course, you can always ask first and clarify with the departmental administrator.  However, I would assume that your intended new department(s) will want to know that you failed your qualifying exams, and will want an appropriate explanation for that.

 

 

No, I'm pretty sure it's atypical in my field, since I've looked over the handbooks of maybe 20 departments in the same field and only one other has this kind of exam. The whole field is moving away from such exams, so that's really not surprising. The department director herself said it was unusual to have one like this - it's usually R01 grant proposal writing/oral defense now.

 

I'm not trying to hide any truth. I just don't know what that question is asking. It's not as though I'm not prepared to be upfront about it - I'm including it in my SOP, briefly. Since it's a radio box type question, I'm just trying to figure out if it'll be mistaken as something else if I do check it. That said, if it's uncertain, I'll probably check it. Better safe than sorry...

Edited November 6, 2013 by ChondroitinSulfate

[Loric]

Point by point..

 

Have you ever been suspended,

 

No.

 

dismissed,

 

No.

 

expelled

 

No.

 

or required to withdraw from any high school or college for academic or disciplinary reasons?

 

No.

 

You weren't asked to withdraw, you weren't thrown out of the school. You can't get into higher level classes in my undergrad major without approval of a professor (which is based on their own pure "cuz i said so.") Not getting in didn't mean those people all "failed" as far as the university was concerned. They couldn't get that particular degree - just like you can't/couldn't - you weren't thrown out of the school. Withdraw is a formal thing, it never happened to you. So is dissmal and expulsion. Again, neither happened to you.

 

Don't freak out about "dishonesty" - they never asked that question and no sane person puts on their resume that they "sometimes feel inadeqate" - but everyone does.