Deceptive program timeline?

[lumbarmoose]

Hi all, I am a second year graduate student dealing with some issues and I'm having a hard time deciding just how mad I should be and how aggressively I should fight this. I thought that getting some outside opinions would be really helpful for getting a better sense of whether I'm overreacting or if I'm in the right.

 

Basically, I am in the 2nd year of a 3 year dual masters degree program. I came here thinking, “Wow, an MA and MBA in three years, what a great idea!” The first year was great. I took a heavier than average course load, maintained a 4.0, and started work on my thesis- but then, this fall, things took a turn for the worse. I was surprised to learn that my MBA and Anthropology departments- the departments that I had assumed were collaborating to make such a program possible-  were each offering a required class in the exact same time slot. I would only be able to take one, and the class that I had to sacrifice wasn’t being offered again for 2 years. My 3 year program had turned into 3 years plus one semester.

At the time, I wasn’t phased. I knew that I was one among many graduate students facing an extra semester to fulfill all the necessary requirements, and it didn’t seem like a big deal. Now, halfway through the fall semester, I recently turned my attention to registering for spring. Upon reviewing each departments schedule, I was horrified to realize that a required class in each department is once again being offered the same time and day, with no other options available. Now, my graduation has been pushed back even further and I am facing four years (at least) for my dual degree.

I know not many people graduate on time these days, but I am not happy, and there are a few reasons why:

1. An MA and MBA are each supposed to take two years individually. The number one benefit of the Dual Degree Program is that, by doing the two concurrently, your completion time is reduced to three years. I came to my university specifically for that program, but now that my time frame is exactly the same as it would be to do the degrees individually at any other university I am essentially signed up for a useless program.
2. This is through no fault of my own. I took 9 credits rather than the recommended 6 both semesters of my first year, I deliberated over my schedule, I made sure to communicate with my departments and get everything approved by my advisor, and yet here I am. I am not graduating on time because there simply is no way to graduate on time. They promised me the impossible, and I bought it.

So basically, I feel like the victim of bait and switch, and I'm really unhappy about facing a 4th year that I did not plan for and am not sure I can afford. 

 

Hopefully this all made sense- it's difficult explaining the ins and outs of a program like this. I would truly appreciate any opinions on how I should be handling this, as at the moment I am feeling quite lost.

[TakeruK]

You should definitely bring this up with the administration in both programs. They probably did not do this on purpose to "trick" students but it's pretty irresponsible of them to advertise a dual degree program yet fail to avoid situations like this. Are you the only student in your specific dual degree program? I think you should try to convince one of the two departments to let you replace one required course for another in order to avoid this situation. But you definitely need to talk to both groups and ideally get a meeting between you and someone from both departments.

[MsDarjeeling]

My school offers a few dual Master's options and they are all designed to be completed in 3 years.  The departments try to work together so that classes don't overlap, but every blue moon a student ends up in your situation.  When that happens they will find a professor to conduct one of the classes as an independent study.  The trick is that student has to request (or rather beg) for that. I have only heard of one instance where a student in this situation and pushing for independent study could not be accommodated.  There just wasn't a qualified faculty member able to conduct it.  So instead that student was given special permission to take a comparable course and a notation was made on their transcripts.

 

Have you talked with your advisors about either of these options?  It just seems a shame to give up and accept a 4th year when there might be an alternative.

[lumbarmoose]

Thanks for the feedback! DsMarjeeling, I have talked a bit with advisors each department. My anthro advisor essentially said "Too bad, you should have expected this when you signed up for dual degrees, deal with it." He also tried to claim that I failed to tell them about my plans to do the dual degrees when I applied- I double checked my personal statement and I definitely talked about the two degrees. The other department has pretty much said "Yes, people don't finish on time, but our part of the degree is very lock-step so when people take longer its not OUR fault, it's usually the other departments."

 

Sounds like I've found myself caught between two departments who did not seriously consider the implications of offering such a program.

 

MsDarjeeling, out of curiosity, what school do you go to? I think it may help my case if I can point out other schools with similar programs and talk about how they put more effort into getting people out in 3 years.

[MsDarjeeling]

Wow those are very unfortunate responses from your advisors, but I can't say I'm surprised.  Also, I'm not sure telling them that other schools work harder to get students out in 3 years is the right argument.  I'm not sure they care what other schools are doing in that regard when ultimately it is up to you to design and follow your degree plan (I'm not saying you didn't, but that's likely their perspective).  A sense of when classes are normally offered can be determined from past course schedules and communicating with the department/other students, however things are subject to change and it is up to each student to have a back up plan. 

 

The way my school (which I've decided not to name) presents it is that "the program is designed so that finishing in 3 years is possible" and they have stats on students who did or didn't.  They don't guarantee that each student will do that, nor do they guarantee there will never be overlapping classes.  They don't even mention upfront that independent study or comparable classes are an option, the student has to do their own legwork (begging) to make that an option.  The departments don't have to work together at all, but most often they do.

 

If graduating in 3 years is what you want then you need to fight for that opportunity.  It won't be easy with departments that don't want to work together either, but their responses to you scream "this is your problem, deal with it."  So what could you do?  First stop complaining about how unfair this all is and how you feel victimized because that's not getting you anywhere.  Second stop complaining about the 2 departments not working together, that clearly isn't the culture of this dual degree option and you're not going to change that.  Does it suck?  Sure, but again complaining is just wasting energy.

 

So possible solutions? 

 

Independent study may work if you're given permission.  Now at my school it works like this:  If a student goes to the dean of the department and asks to do an independent study they're told no and to take the class the next time around.  If the student first finds (begs) a professor to supervise an independent study, gets the professor to design a syllabus and create a tentative meeting schedule, finds out what paperwork is needed and fills it out all but dean signature, and THEN goes to the dean the answer is yes. 

 

It would work similarly if a student in this case found a comparable class on their own campus or at a nearby university.  They would have to do all the legwork to research that comparable class, figure out the transfer of credit process, get the syllabus of the comparable class and the one for the class they need for comparison, and then present it to the dean for review.  If the answer is yes, then it is still up to the student to continue doing all the legwork to make sure that credit is transferred and all paperwork is handled.

 

I'm not aware of other options, but perhaps others will chime in.  Also you need to get on board with the possibility that even after all this legwork trying to solve your own problem the dean will veto everything.  If that happens you won't have a choice but to stay another year and you'll have to be ok with that.

[TakeruK]

Thanks for the feedback! DsMarjeeling, I have talked a bit with advisors each department. My anthro advisor essentially said "Too bad, you should have expected this when you signed up for dual degrees, deal with it." He also tried to claim that I failed to tell them about my plans to do the dual degrees when I applied- I double checked my personal statement and I definitely talked about the two degrees. The other department has pretty much said "Yes, people don't finish on time, but our part of the degree is very lock-step so when people take longer its not OUR fault, it's usually the other departments."

 

Sounds like I've found myself caught between two departments who did not seriously consider the implications of offering such a program.

 

MsDarjeeling, out of curiosity, what school do you go to? I think it may help my case if I can point out other schools with similar programs and talk about how they put more effort into getting people out in 3 years.

 

Wow, this is really crappy! Can you get some people on your side? It's hard when it's you vs. two departments who probably rarely communicate. If you want to fight it harder, I would talk to as many professors as I can and see who is going to be on your side. I would also talk to third parties, like your student council or the graduate school. These groups usually have an ombudsperson type position that can help you. It doesn't sound like the departments are willing to help you unless you make a big stink about it. Whether or not you want to do this, or even if it will be worth it to do this is up to you, but it doesn't sound like you can rely on the departments to figure this out without you putting a lot of pressure on them. 

[danieleWrites]

This happens a lot in undergraduate programs in smaller schools. There've been rumblings about people in one major discovering that a course they needed was taught irregularly and their advisers not notifying them of this, or that it was taught during one particular semester and they didn't know that, and ended up taking five years instead of four to get the bachelors.

 

I'm kind of with you in that they advertised a program where you can get two degrees in three years, then they should have worked the logistics of the thing out so you could. If nothing else, it should have been clear that you take this class during year one and that class during year three.

 

I'm also kind of not with you in that this kind of thing is fairly common in all levels of the university. Certainly courses are only offered at certain times. Looking through past course schedules for several years should have made that clear when planning your program. There was a big stink a few years ago in the papers about how students are now getting a four year degree in five years simply because of the way course-work is scheduled. Budget cuts since the recession hit in 2008 meant that fewer sections were offered across the country. And nothing was ever really done to fix that, despite the larger numbers of adjuncts teaching these days.

 

However, you have a degree program promise in writing, advertised to be a specific way. You did your due diligence with planning and advising. It is incumbent on them to solve this problem so you can complete your work as advertised. With your grades and your obvious dedication, there should be no earthly reason why they should not find a way to accommodate you. You're not the one who failed here, they did. You should have recourse for it. You've been to your advisers, now it's time to talk to the department chairs. Ms. Darjeeling has a good idea, where you pursue independent study rather than a specific course. How important is perfect attendance in both courses? Is it possible for the courses to accommodate you? You have an excellent academic record, you're carrying a 4.0 so you can obviously do the work and excel. If you can't get satisfaction from the department chairs, then take up to the graduate school itself, and speak with the dean there. It is, after all, the graduate school who made this promise to you, and it is ultimately their responsibility to make it work. Going through your advisers and your departments first is a courtesy to allow them to solve the problem first, rather than jumping straight to the top. I agree with the others. You should graduate as promised.