Question for Ancient Mediterranean Religions Folk

[MBIGrad]

Hey All,

 

I have a question for Ancient Mediterranean Religions PhD program hopefuls: What do you make of programs such as UNC-Chapel Hill and UT-Austin concerning the funding situation? Both programs seem to me to be top 10 programs by any reckoning, yet each has a $15-16k stipend, relatively high cost of living, and at UNC at least, the student fees are several thousand dollars. With programs like this that have phenomenal resources in faculty, facilities, programs, language and archaeology training, and yet at the same time have funding that, for some, would necessitate another source of funding (or PT job), what are your thoughts?

 

I, for one, am hoping to get out of the go to school, work an assistantship, and work part-time jobs on the side phase of quasi-academic life.

 

Love to hear from y'all.

[AbrasaxEos]

Not applying this year, but in my own year the exact reason you outline here was a factor in my deciding against UNC-CH.  When I went for the admitted student visit, no one seemed to have needed an extra job to pay the fees, but the propect of doing so vs. not for BU helped my decision slightly.  I think that at the schools you have listed, with the exception of Yale perhaps, the stipend vs. cost of living factor works out pretty similarly though.

[Joseph45]

I think you're right to be concerned. I have a friend in the RELS dept at UNC (although not in Ancient Med), and last time I talked to him he was working two jobs. It's really hard to compete with students at other programs when you're also having to work a part time job.

 

And even if you could get by financially (Chapel Hill area might be a bit expensive, but it wouldn't be hard to find something pretty cheap nearby), it's not only miserable to live penny to penny like that for years, I'm also guessing they don't have great funding for traveling to conferences, etc. In other words, it's going to be harder for you to get CV points if you have to pay for your own travel costs.

 

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I do think this is a big factor that a lot of people in the application stage don't understand. Places like UNC and UT-Austin have great people (at least in our field), but that doesn't really make them a great place to be. I hate to be crass, but money really does make a difference.

 

In summary, those kids at Princeton are doing good work in part because of the financial resources that are backing them and their research.

 

All of this doesn't mean that you shouldn't apply. At the same time, I'm not really sure that I could recommend either of those schools with a good conscience. Great people, not great situations. And this PhD thing is really, really tough, even when you're in a great situation (hence, why I'm procrastinating on the dissertation right now).

 

By the way, have you looked at Brown?

[newenglandshawn]

Isn't Princeton Theological Seminary the same deal? It seems like their stipend is really low, relatively speaking (something in the $15k neighborhood as well - for New Jersey!!).

[Joseph45]

Isn't Princeton Theological Seminary the same deal? It seems like their stipend is really low, relatively speaking (something in the $15k neighborhood as well - for New Jersey!!).

I think he's looking at Princeton U (to which I was referring), not PTS.

[newenglandshawn]

Yeah, I picked up on that but just commenting on PTS too!

[Joseph45]

Yeah, I picked up on that but just commenting on PTS too!

Oh, okay. To me PTS isn't in the same category as UT-Austin and UNC. If you want pretty conservative scholarship, it's a great place to go, but it's kind of a different discussion, since it's a confessional place (at least in my opinion).

[newenglandshawn]

 

By the way, have you looked at Brown?

 

According to the Brown website, if one wants to study Hebrew Bible, he/she has to have already done work in modern Hebrew. Does anyone know differently or had a different experience?

[MBIGrad]

I heard the same thing at UT. As for PTS, I think they are mostly $12k with one or two $18ks per year, and they subsidize housing significantly. But yes, I am not talking about PTS and it is in a different category. 

 

I am applying to UNC and UT, and hope that if admitted I have a chance at additional funding re: GRE scores; I know that both schools with submit admitted students for university funding. But it is too bad that at programs with such exceptional faculty and resources, stipends preclude concentration on research. But such is life.

 

As for the living penny to penny thing, I don't really mind it, but I would like to not drive pizzas...

 

Concerning BU, how is that? The stipend, I believe, is $19.5k or something, but I was under the impression that Boston was expensive. Also, I don't really know about FSU's funding (website is vague) and UVA is $18k, which seems to me about par for tier 1 funding.

 

By the way, if anyone has any sweet tips on any of the schools on my "Applied" list, feel free to post them here.

[newenglandshawn]

I was under the impression that Boston was expensive. 

 

 

Yes, Boston is one of the top two or three most expensive cities to live in in the United States. So I'm not sure why BU doesn't give more, other than the fact that they may not have more to give! I would have a hard time believing that $19-20k in Boston would get you as far as $15k in Chapel Hill or Austin. 

[MBIGrad]

I'm with you, sir. Someone correct us.

[sacklunch]

FWIW Brown is loosing several of its key players. They are still listed on the website, but I'm certain they are not taking students. I was told they are not taking students in NT at all currently, too. 

[dr. t]

Yes, Boston is one of the top two or three most expensive cities to live in in the United States. So I'm not sure why BU doesn't give more, other than the fact that they may not have more to give! I would have a hard time believing that $19-20k in Boston would get you as far as $15k in Chapel Hill or Austin. 

 

You won't find a livable 1BR apt in Boston within a reasonable commute to BU for less than ~$1k. To live on that stipend, you will need a roommate. Avoid living in Allston near Brighton Ave. if you want to sleep at night.

Edited December 6, 2013 by telkanuru

[AbrasaxEos]

This is very true.  BU's stipend is a bit over 20k now for AC folks, not sure about other fields.  If you are single, you need a roommate in Boston - even if you go to Harvard/HDS, where the stipend is substantially more, you'd also be just making it.  A note on stipends, they are made to just get you by, not be the equivalent of a full-time job.  If you are lucky enough to be one of the two people who actually get paid to study what you want to in a field as unemployable and esoteric as religious studies, smile big and don't complain, even if you get a 5k stipend!

 

However, as a note for those who have a partner of some sort coming with them, Boston is a great place where one with requisite education and experience can actually do quite well for oneself (however, a M* is all but necessary for many jobs).  I am fortunate enough to have a partner who quintuples my stipend...

 

For those coming in single, there are a number of students in BUs program who live with roomates, and seem to be doing fine without extra jobs or eating ramen every night.  They don't live large, they have to budget, but then again they have nice folks like me who pick up the tab at bar nights.  One hidden secret about BU AC program is that you actually get fellowship for 4 years (1,2,4,5; teaching in 3), and one could say, teach an extra course in one of the many subsidiary colleges associated with BU (BU has roughly 15k undergrads and love to keep class sizes down) and get a stipend, as well as about 8k per semester extra for teaching the course.  This is really only the AC fellowship though, as all the rest require teaching most years.  \

 

In the end, Don't go into debt, but you aren't going to be buying up stock options on your stipend, so go where you feel as though you best fit.  I think I figured out that with the comparably astronomical fees at the two state schools mentioned, the stipends actually more or less equal out.  Finally, the stipends are all "gross" stipends because all of them are taxed in some manner (if fellowship you have to take out estimated taxes, and if TAing they usually take them out for you).

Edited December 6, 2013 by AbrasaxEos

[dr. t]

 A note on stipends, they are made to just get you by, not be the equivalent of a full-time job.  If you are lucky enough to be one of the two people who actually get paid to study what you want to in a field as unemployable and esoteric as religious studies, smile big and don't complain, even if you get a 5k stipend!

 

While I second everything else you've said, I can't agree with this. Harvard's $25.5k comes off as about right (more with some easily-accrued additions), particularly with location allowing cheaper yet not totally inconvenient housing in Arlington, etc. But with, say, Notre Dame offering $20k to live in South Bend, and BU undergrad tuition unbelievably pegged at over $60k per year, BU comes off as a miser, and that's a totally legitimate complaint.

Edited December 6, 2013 by telkanuru

[AbrasaxEos]

I will give you that - I am not saying that I think BU couldn't afford to give more - they could.  They make lots of money off of their undergrads and only recently started funding all their grad students. Too many new buildings to fund.  And yes, the only affordable place to live is Allston, which is indeed the worst place one could live as a graduate student who likes to sleep Thursday - Sunday evenings. 

 

I was making more of a general comment on stipends - I think that getting paid anything to study what you want is pretty cool whatever the amount.  I got like 2k a year in New Haven at YDS for a stipend and that was amazing.  It basically paid my car insurance and a couple trips to the grocery store.  Also, Notre Dame needs to pay that otherwise no one would come, South Bend is horrible.

[sacklunch]

South Bend is very likely one of the worst places one can ever live. If not for their fantastic program...and their stipend...no one would ever live in that cold, dark, nightmare.

[Kuriakos]

All the Ancient Med people I know live in Carborro which is quite close and far more reasonable than Chapel Hill proper. Also, I took some seminars at UNC-CH while I was at Duke and driving in from south Durham only took 15 minutes, so there are other more reasonable options.

[MBIGrad]

Yes, I've heard that. Good to know all that about Boston, very helpful. Concerning Brown, I looked at their Religion and Egyptology programs, but they don't have anyone doing my stuff; otherwise, I'd be all over it. I've had several profs who did their PhDs at Brown, and it seems to do all things well.

[diazalon]

 

As for the living penny to penny thing, I don't really mind it, but I would like to not drive pizzas...

 

 

 

I think you're right to be concerned. I have a friend in the RELS dept at UNC (although not in Ancient Med), and last time I talked to him he was working two jobs. It's really hard to compete with students at other programs when you're also having to work a part time job.

 

 

As a side note - at least at UNC, graduate student contracts stipulate that students may not work another job while receiving a stipend. I have a couple of friends that do it, but if the DGS finds out, they can (and likely will) lose their stipend. Let those who have ears, hear.

[dr. t]

As a side note - at least at UNC, graduate student contracts stipulate that students may not work another job while receiving a stipend. I have a couple of friends that do it, but if the DGS finds out, they can (and likely will) lose their stipend. Let those who have ears, hear.

 

Truly I tell you, that is bullshit.

[Qaus-gabri]

UT is the same (i.e you aren't allowed to work another job). That said, 1,400 / mo (no summers, but with health insurance) is enough to live in a decent apartment in Austin with a roommate.

[newenglandshawn]

at least at UNC, graduate student contracts stipulate that students may not work another job while receiving a stipend. 

 

How typical is it for schools to do this? Besides UT and UNC, anyone know of other schools that also do this? That would be a big problem for me as I plan to do some part-time pastoring on the side if I get into a program.

[AbrasaxEos]

A lot of programs have this on the books as an official rule - it is in some cases a holdover from the days on when not everyone got a stipend, in others it is just a method for trying to to keep people focused on their coursework, not delivering pizzas.  Programs will vary in their actual enforcement - BU can be a bit strict on it, but I have a few friends who work without any real problem here and elsewhere, though they tend to do so with mostly under-the-table work, or work for which they get paid primarily in cash (i.e. waiting tables, bartending, etc.) 

[marXian]

It's weird to me to hear that a school would say "while you're receiving a stipend" you can't work. In my situation, I was asked not to work my first year. Makes sense, since they want first years to just put their heads down and get through a rigorous year of course work. But after that, nearly everyone is applying for jobs/fellowships that are available within the university (e.g. assistant master in the residential college system, fellowships that give Ph.D students the opportunity to work with a cohort of "honors" undergrads, etc.) all of which are paid out as a monthly stipend but none of which would replace a year of fellowship (as a Fulbright or DAAD year long fellowship would.) Even some of the hourly wage on campus jobs are open to grad students (library jobs, etc.) I suppose the culture at each university is going to be different regarding this.