Top church history/historical theology programs, and my odds of getting accepted.

[fundie]

The first question that I have is fairly simple. For those of you who are familiar with the field, which programs are the best for students interested in church history/historical theology? I am especially interested in the 19-20th century and/or the Reformation era.

Part two is a little longer.

I am currently a student at Faith Baptist Bible College in Ankeny, IA. (I will spare you the story of my childhood and how/why I ended up at FBBC.) Since starting college at Faith (which is regionally accredited by the HLC), I have developed a distaste for some of the nuances of my theological heritage, and I have an increasing interest in pursuing graduate study in theology in a more intensive academic environment. (I am not trying to be a theological rebel. I simply want to be academically challenged in an environment where some disagreement is acceptable.) I have been taking heavy course loads thus far and have managed to keep up a near perfect GPA (3.99). At this pace, I could graduate from FBBC one year from this coming May with a B.A. in Biblical Studies w/ 12 cr. of Greek and 6 of Hebrew. (I graduated from high school in 2012, but I am taking heavy enough loads to finish a year early)

While I think I am compiling as impressive a resume as possible at my current institution, my concern is that no serious graduate program will take my application seriously with a bachelor's degree from a fundamentalist, separatistic Bible college. (While I am still very conservative by the standards of most, I would not apply these labels to myself.)

For those of you who are in/around top graduate programs, do you think that I have any chance of getting accepted with a B.A. from Faith? I am also considering spending a 4th year in undergrad at a state university (they're the only other option that I can afford) like the University of Iowa or Iowa State and taking my bachelor's degree there, if it would help increase my odds of success at the grad level. Would either of the outcomes that I have mentioned afford me an opportunity to enter a funded doctoral program in historical theology someday? (I know that I will probably have to earn at least one master's first.)

Thanks for any help you can offer!

[sacklunch]

Would you transfer and complete a BA at a state school or get a second BA?

You say money is an issue (understandably), but what about postgrad studies? You will most def. have to get a masters and many of them require substantial debt (MDiv's always pay more, though some of the bigger names offer a lot of full rides, e.g. HDS and ND).

Are you willing to move and if so, how far?

What is your eventual goal? If you are still fairly conservative (I suspect you may be more conservative than you even know. I grew up in the Midwest and it wasn't until I was in my late teens, when I left, that I realized how truly conservative I was...and I was/am agnostic!).

 

Unfortunately, I think undergraduate names somewhat 'stick' and I have noticed people have a tendency to connect, at least part, of their academic identity on where they came from. On the other hand, if you browse many of the graduate students at the top schools, many (most?) went to random liberal arts schools. So I think you will be in good company regardless if you stay at your school and finish up or transfer to a more recognizable state school. 

 

Anyways, the above questions I think need to be answered for anyone to really help, and someone who actually studies modern church history would be great, too!

 

best

[fundie]

Would you transfer and complete a BA at a state school or get a second BA?

You say money is an issue (understandably), but what about postgrad studies? You will most def. have to get a masters and many of them require substantial debt (MDiv's always pay more, though some of the bigger names offer a lot of full rides, e.g. HDS and ND).

Are you willing to move and if so, how far?

What is your eventual goal? If you are still fairly conservative (I suspect you may be more conservative than you even know. I grew up in the Midwest and it wasn't until I was in my late teens, when I left, that I realized how truly conservative I was...and I was/am agnostic!).

Unfortunately, I think undergraduate names somewhat 'stick' and I have noticed people have a tendency to connect, at least part, of their academic identity on where they came from. On the other hand, if you browse many of the graduate students at the top schools, many (most?) went to random liberal arts schools. So I think you will be in good company regardless if you stay at your school and finish up or transfer to a more recognizable state school.

Anyways, the above questions I think need to be answered for anyone to really help, and someone who actually studies modern church history would be great, too!

best

I would be transferring to earn my BA if I attended a state university.

The heavy cost of postgrad studies is the primary reason why I mentioned money as a concern. I will be ruined if I rack up $ 30,000+ in debt before I even enter a masters program.

And I am aware that it is nearly impossible for me to comprehend how conservative I am in the spectrum of belief. I realize that if I did end up in a grad program at a place like HDS in a couple of years, I would have an awful time due to the opposition I would face. However, I find it very difficult to accept the notion that my beliefs are valid without challenging them. My faith is precious to me, but if it can only be preserved (as is) in ignorance, it is not worth keeping. I would like to be challenged by thinkers from a very different perspectives so I can fully own my beliefs.

At the grad level, moving is no issue for me. I am not even opposed to leaving North America.

My career goal is to land teaching/researching somewhere, probably in Christian liberal arts college (i.e., Northwestern, Calvin, Wheaton, or a similar school).

Edited January 26, 2014 by fundie

[Lux Lex Pax]

If you do good work, you'll be fine coming from a small, conservative college. You will have to do a master's degree if you want to get into a top church history/historical theology doctoral program. Given your background and interests, I suggest you look into the MTS program at Duke Divinity, MAR at Yale Divinity, and M.Div. at Princeton Theological Seminary -- you might also consider the M.Div. at Duke and Yale as well if you're interested in ministry, want more time to prepare yourself academically, or want more funding. These three schools have strengths in the areas you're interested in, produce a good number of doctoral students, provide good funding, and will be more friendly to Christians from conservative backgrounds than most other top programs. Your academic record seems to indicate that you'll be competitive at these schools. Get good letters of recommendation, write an excellent personal statement, knock the GRE out of the park (M.Div. programs generally don't require the GRE), and you'll be in very good shape. I don't think transferring is a necessity, especially if it'll cost you more and possibly set you back a year.

[sacklunch]

Because of your interests, I suspect you will need a fair bit of Latin, too. If you transferred you could begin that (in Classics) and continue with your other languages (and perhaps pick up some German). It's hard to not project my own preference in your situation, which naturally leads me to argue for the state school. But really, most of the big name MDiv's have an acceptance rate of like 50%, so with your great GPA and even decent letters I bet you will get into most of the programs you apply to, including places like HDS, YDS, DDS, and so on. I would also suggest looking into some history MA programs, because they are generally more academically inclined (and rigorous, IMO), though again, funding may be an issue. Many MDiv programs end up being more like a second BA (I have heard this from MDiv's at Harvard, BC, Yale, Emory, and Duke), since many of the people coming in do not have any real academic background in religious studies/theology, coupled with the degree requirements (trying to cram ministry, languages, and historical training into three years!) as well as the size of the program (when you have more than 20 people in class I find it really difficult to tailor the course to different levels, plus I feel less accountable overall). Take that for what you will. 

[Averroes MD]

I am myself just applying for a Master's degree right now, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I do think that you will need a Master's degree, which you already seem to know.  As for your undergrad background, here's what I've learned in life: turn everything into a positive.  Sell your undergrad as a plus, i.e. I come from an extremely conservative undergrad, and I've learned that I need to branch out and be challenged with other points of view, etc. etc.  I'm not saying for you to over-sell yourself; rather, I am saying you should make sure not to under-sell yourself, because your background can actually be an asset. 

I myself come from a fundamentalist Muslim background... I have since swung to the opposite side of the spectrum and am now very liberal religiously.  But, my fundamentalist background DEFINITELY comes in handy, as it gives me much needed perspective.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Averroes MD

[marXian]

I think it's definitely possible to be admitted into a good program with a bible college background. For instance, there's a second year theology PhD student at UVA who went to Pensacola Christian and Dallas Seminary. That sort of info is usually readily available on the "Current Graduate Students" page of most department websites, so you can look and see where admits come from and whether or not they have master's degrees. Remember though that whether or not someone can be admitted without a master's degree really depends on the particular subfield. Usually theology (and biblical studies) require at least an MA in theology (or similar degree.) If you want to go into academia, I recommend going for an MA or MTS rather than an MDiv.

 

The other important piece that hasn't really been touched upon yet is what you want to do more specifically. As derewigestudent pointed out, if you want to work on the Reformation, it is absolutely crucial you develop your Latin. German, of course, is important too, but Latin is (arguably) more difficult. If you want to do 19th/20th century (which is what I do!) then German is going to be most important (assuming you're doing Protestant theology, of course.) The other question you'll want to ask yourself is what tradition you'd like to focus on (e.g, If the Reformation, are you interested in Luther or Calvin; if 19th/20th century, the liberal or orthodox traditions?) I work on early 20th century theology, social theory, and neo-Kantianism, so definitely feel free to PM me if you have more specific questions!

[HazelMotes]

The first question that I have is fairly simple. For those of you who are familiar with the field, which programs are the best for students interested in church history/historical theology? I am especially interested in the 19-20th century and/or the Reformation era.

 

I'd echo marXian's advice. If you are sure that you want to do academia only, then do an MTS or MA. If you want to leave the door open for ministry and other things, an MDiv can really be of help. An MDiv just takes longer, assuming that you do good academic work during your MDiv, you can get accepted into a PhD program straight from it (I did). Another thing to consider is if you want to teach at a confessional liberal arts college or seminary. An MDiv can help you on that account for a number of reasons. It shows that you are theologically well-rounded and pastorally trained (therefore more attuned to the needs of those seeking to serve in parishes). On the undergrad level, assuming you have a 75-90 hour MDiv, it qualifies you to teach in a broader area. For example, when I finish my PhD in historical theology I could be hired by a smaller school who might also need me to teach occasional undergraduate courses in Scripture. Since I have 36+ graduate hours in NT and OT, I am qualified to regularly do that (accreditation requires that regular profs have at least 18 hours in the field in which they are teaching, I believe). 

Schools to consider as you hone your interests: Yale Div., Duke Div., Boston College, Notre Dame, Marquette, St. Louis University, Princeton Theological Seminary. (I know several people recommended HDS. I wouldn't go that route personally.)

It might be a good idea to look at a place like Fuller seminary for a MA degree. They have a solid reputation at a lot of bigger schools and can be a nice transition from a more sectarian school. 

 

For those of you who are in/around top graduate programs, do you think that I have any chance of getting accepted with a B.A. from Faith? I am also considering spending a 4th year in undergrad at a state university (they're the only other option that I can afford) like the University of Iowa or Iowa State and taking my bachelor's degree there, if it would help increase my odds of success at the grad level. Would either of the outcomes that I have mentioned afford me an opportunity to enter a funded doctoral program in historical theology someday? 

 

I am in a top historical theology program (fully-funded) at a Jesuit school (studying 19th-20th century). I went to a very conservative Bible college. I do not feel that it hurt my chances. In my experience Roman Catholic schools appreciate people who come from conservative Bible colleges, because they have a strong foundation of biblical content and context, which really comes in handy when your reading people like Origen, Cajetan, Luther, and Barth.

It is important that you demonstrate that you are a committed student and open to learning from other perspectives. Dedication and sincere openness are really what it takes. (and some kind of idea of what you're interested in, but that applies more for PhD than MA.)

Best of luck! PM me if you have any questions I can help with.

[Alex Madlinger]

I went to Bob Jones University and I ended up selling my experience as a plus. The University of Minnesota loved my statement and offered me full funding and a sizable stipend for an MA in Religions in Antiquity. I'm probably in the exact same boat as you, just with slightly different academic interests.

 

You'll be fine. It might take you a little longer than you'd like, but you'll be fine.