Oh, ranking...

[katiegud]

I have been accepted to a few programs now. Just found out yesterday that I was accepted to one that is ranked significantly higher than the others. I won't find out about funding for a few weeks at least (March/April for two programs), so that isn't a factor yet. However, I am probably more likely to get funding from a lower ranked university due to the competition at the higher ranked program. How much does ranking matter? Since I'll be in the UK, will it even matter in the US if I come back for a job? Will they even be aware of the rankings of UK programs? What do you think?

[squark]

Going off your signature, I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have about Durham. I went there for my undergrad. Unfortunately I can't help you out too much in terms of how the UK rankings are viewed in the US. I've gotten a very mixed reaction. 

[Ciarrai300]

A lot of the benefit of high ranked schools is simply name recognition and networking. Since you're coming from the UK I would say that outside a very few select schools (cambridge, oxford) people in the US aren't familiar with UK universities.  (To get an idea see how many Americans on this site can identify which of your Universities is the higher ranked one.) This means the value you get for going to a higher ranked school is diminished if you're ultimate plan is to live and work in the US.

[thegirldetective]

 (To get an idea see how many Americans on this site can identify which of your Universities is the higher ranked one.)

 

I definitely can't.

[katiegud]

A lot of the benefit of high ranked schools is simply name recognition and networking. Since you're coming from the UK I would say that outside a very few select schools (cambridge, oxford) people in the US aren't familiar with UK universities.  (To get an idea see how many Americans on this site can identify which of your Universities is the higher ranked one.) This means the value you get for going to a higher ranked school is diminished if you're ultimate plan is to live and work in the US.

 

That's what I was wondering. I'm not actually sure I want to come back to the US, but I'd like it to be an option. If they all look the same to the people that are hiring, however, it doesn't really matter where I go!

[Munashi]

I definitely can't.

Nor car I, but I am not in the same field as OP so my lack of knowledge in this case may not be particularly meaningful.

[thegirldetective]

Nor car I, but I am not in the same field as OP so my lack of knowledge in this case may not be particularly meaningful.

 

I couldn't tell you how they're ranked in my field, either.

[OCD or Perfection?]

No idea how they're ranked and I have a LOT of friends who studied in the UK!

 

Go with the funding!

[gingin6789]

My thesis advisor actually told me to be picky and "snobby" about rank.  (That's hard for me to imagine because I'm just not a snobby person at all.  So the most I could do was tell her I'd be picky haha.)

 

Anyway, she backed up that advice with this: if schools want you badly enough, they will literally have a bidding war over you.  When she got accepted to multiple schools, School A told her that they would match anything School B would give her (School A was Vanderbilt. I forget what School B was).  So, hopefully if you get funding from the lower-ranked program, the higher ranked program will jump in and say "Not so fast! We could match that!"  

 

Another thing to take into account is fit.  If you're accepted to a highly ranked school that isn't nearly as good a fit as the lower ranked one, I don't know if it would be worth it.  I don't know how specific the areas of interest are in Public Policy, but in sociology, if I got accepted to a highly ranked demography program, I know it would not match well with my research interests in medical sociology.

 

It also looks like you're located in Nebraska but are applying to schools in the UK.  I'm not sure how the funding input above would apply to international schools.  

 

As you proposed before, rank might be even more salient since you are applying to international schools (if you plan on coming back to the US after you get your degree).  

[GeoDUDE!]

My thesis advisor actually told me to be picky and "snobby" about rank.  (That's hard for me to imagine because I'm just not a snobby person at all.  So the most I could do was tell her I'd be picky haha.)

 

Anyway, she backed up that advice with this: if schools want you badly enough, they will literally have a bidding war over you.  When she got accepted to multiple schools, School A told her that they would match anything School B would give her (School A was Vanderbilt. I forget what School B was).  So, hopefully if you get funding from the lower-ranked program, the higher ranked program will jump in and say "Not so fast! We could match that!"  

 

Another thing to take into account is fit.  If you're accepted to a highly ranked school that isn't nearly as good a fit as the lower ranked one, I don't know if it would be worth it.  I don't know how specific the areas of interest are in Public Policy, but in sociology, if I got accepted to a highly ranked demography program, I know it would not match well with my research interests in medical sociology.

 

It also looks like you're located in Nebraska but are applying to schools in the UK.  I'm not sure how the funding input above would apply to international schools.  

 

As you proposed before, rank might be even more salient since you are applying to international schools (if you plan on coming back to the US after you get your degree).  

 

 

This seem strange to me; My instinct (and asking professors about this) is the opposite: Lower ranked schools will better the offers of higher ranked schools while higher ranked schools will expect you to take the paycut(within reason) because they have all the leverage. You seem to think that there are very few good students; The opposite is true as there are more qualified PhD canidates rejected every year than accepted. This is especially true if the high ranked school is public. Private schools tend to have more leverage, but why would MIT match the offer of no name state school when MIT knows they offer much just in reputation alone.

 

Graduate students are, for the most part, disposable. Post Docs, Tenure Track canidates are experts in their field, a much different situation.

[wreckofthehope]

I have been accepted to a few programs now. Just found out yesterday that I was accepted to one that is ranked significantly higher than the others. I won't find out about funding for a few weeks at least (March/April for two programs), so that isn't a factor yet. However, I am probably more likely to get funding from a lower ranked university due to the competition at the higher ranked program. How much does ranking matter? Since I'll be in the UK, will it even matter in the US if I come back for a job? Will they even be aware of the rankings of UK programs? 

 

Outside of maybe four or five universities (Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, St Andrews and maybe Edinburgh), UK schools are almost all unknown by name in the US. There are exceptions within highly specialized areas (York for Medieval Studies, Essex for Government) but the majority of academics wouldn't know where, say, Durham stood against Kent in the general university pecking order, and will probably not know anything much at all about either. So, I'm not sure you should worry all that much about it.

 

In any case, within the UK, rankings, as such, matter very little at the PhD level and for jobs afterwards, most PhD students are drawn by funding and supervisors to a particular university which for a particular topic could mean that Kent, say, is a far better place to be than Oxford, for example. 

 

The US job market is, of course, very rank-sensitive but, like I said, considering the pool of universities you are choosing from I don't think the perceived ranking is going to matter much because of the general lack of awareness of UK institutions over here.

 

I'm from the UK, Durham is the most highly ranked for undergrads (seen as just below Oxbridge), but it's almost unknown in the US. Manchester is likely the highest ranked internationally because it's massive and research heavy. I'd hazard a guess that Leeds or Kent are better for the OPs subject, since they both tend to be places where less traditional academic disciples flourish.

Edited February 18, 2014 by wreckofthehope

[gingin6789]

This seem strange to me; My instinct (and asking professors about this) is the opposite: Lower ranked schools will better the offers of higher ranked schools while higher ranked schools will expect you to take the paycut(within reason) because they have all the leverage. You seem to think that there are very few good students; The opposite is true as there are more qualified PhD canidates rejected every year than accepted. This is especially true if the high ranked school is public. Private schools tend to have more leverage, but why would MIT match the offer of no name state school when MIT knows they offer much just in reputation alone.

 

Graduate students are, for the most part, disposable. Post Docs, Tenure Track canidates are experts in their field, a much different situation.

Oh that was just my input and instinct; I could be completely wrong! I only heard this from one person.  It sounds like you asked more folks about it, so, OP, I'd listen to this post rather than mine!

[katiegud]

Thanks for the input! Glad to hear that ranking doesn't matter as much in the UK, though I will likely be going with either Manchester or Leeds, which are both highly ranked in policy. Fit is great at all of them (which is why I chose these universities over Oxford and Cambridge). Now I just have to find out the funding info...

[wreckofthehope]

Thanks for the input! Glad to hear that ranking doesn't matter as much in the UK, though I will likely be going with either Manchester or Leeds, which are both highly ranked in policy. Fit is great at all of them (which is why I chose these universities over Oxford and Cambridge). Now I just have to find out the funding info...

Good luck!

 

If you'll be looking for jobs in the UK, one thing to do might be to scour departments for their new lecturer hires in your field and  see if either Leeds or Manchester are educating a large portion of those hires. Just cos, if one of them is, then that would be a big plus in their favour.

 

I know in my subfield, in the last five years or so, two unis (Sussex and Birkbeck) completely dominated hiring so even though another uni might be a marginally better fit, one of those two departments would probably be the safest bet for getting a job.

[Quant_Liz_Lemon]

My thesis advisor actually told me to be picky and "snobby" about rank.  (That's hard for me to imagine because I'm just not a snobby person at all.  So the most I could do was tell her I'd be picky haha.)

 

Anyway, she backed up that advice with this: if schools want you badly enough, they will literally have a bidding war over you.  When she got accepted to multiple schools, School A told her that they would match anything School B would give her (School A was Vanderbilt. I forget what School B was).  So, hopefully if you get funding from the lower-ranked program, the higher ranked program will jump in and say "Not so fast! We could match that!"  

 

Another thing to take into account is fit.  If you're accepted to a highly ranked school that isn't nearly as good a fit as the lower ranked one, I don't know if it would be worth it.  I don't know how specific the areas of interest are in Public Policy, but in sociology, if I got accepted to a highly ranked demography program, I know it would not match well with my research interests in medical sociology.

 

It also looks like you're located in Nebraska but are applying to schools in the UK.  I'm not sure how the funding input above would apply to international schools.  

 

As you proposed before, rank might be even more salient since you are applying to international schools (if you plan on coming back to the US after you get your degree).  

That might be more of a Vanderbilt thing than a top school thing.