Thoughts on "disclosing" your acceptances/funding to departments during recruitment?

[overlyresearched]

Just wondering what everyone thinks about disclosing your other offers to departments during recruitment. For some reason my gut leans toward being cautious about disclosing everything, but I'm not entirely sure why I feel like that, especially if you have several offers and it may help in negotiating funding. Is there any way disclosing could hurt you? (And I don't mean "showing off" about your acceptances, talking about it nonstop, or being a jerk about it - I'm talking more about when you're asked or it's appropriate to do so).

One of the departments where I was accepted mentioned in an email to me to keep them "in the loop" about other acceptances and offers. Should I be totally forthcoming? What about when visit days conflict? Should I be straightforward about missing a visit day due to attending another one?

Just curious to know everyone's opinions/thoughts about this.

Edited February 8, 2014 by overlyresearched

[Darth.Vegan]

I can speak from experience that this can definitely help in negotiations. I was seriously considering offers from 3 different departments and all of them improved my initial funding package, some more than once. 

[mormlib]

Talking to one of my colleges, they asked me to let them know of other offers so that they could make sure they did all they could to get me there. I hear that it is harder to negotiate at the top colleges (my professors all have negative attitudes towards Princeton's and Wisconsin's attitude toward funding and caring about students), but if colleges want you, it's a good idea to improve your situation.

[amlobo]

There is nothing wrong with disclosing everything, and in fact, most of my POIs specifically asked where I had been admitted and what the other schools were offering.  Also, I had visits conflict, and I straight-out told them the situation, and they were able to arrange a separate visit; honestly, I think they were glad I was putting forth the effort to still visit on my own.

 

I had some schools/POIs want me to keep them in the loop.  And, I did.  When it came to decision-making time, I was very forthcoming about my decision process with POIs and let them know what I saw as the pros/cons of each department, so they had a chance to address my concerns.  

 

Building on what mormlib said, a lot of programs cannot or will not increase your funding package, even if they want you to come.  I think this is especially true among top departments where they give everyone equal funding packages.  Though, I think it's still important for them to know what your other offers are so they can tailor their approach.

[overlyresearched]

Thanks for al of your input. It's been helpful.

@xdarthveganx:: Thanks for the insight. I ended up reading the acceptances thread from last year for some insight and noticed your progress with getting in to various schools and then negotiating funding. Were many of those who were willing to negotiate publicaly funded schools? I could be wrong but it seems like the UC schools are implying their offers are pretty much standard without much room (though I haven't actually come out and asked for anything yet). Feel free to PM.

@mormlib:: Are your professors negative view of schools like this solely regarding funding or in other areas too? Feel free to PM.

@amlobo:: Thanks for the insights on visits. Did the schools you rescheduled visits for seem to care you chose another official visit over theirs? It sounds like probably not. My strategy for right now I think will be to go to the one that informed me first (unless I strongly prefer the other one).

One last question/thought for anyone:: Would you wait to pursue negotiating funding as your offers come in or wait until you know your offers from everywhere? Is there a rush or anything to negotiate before others do? And do you think funding negotiations will only work if the school offering you more is equally or higher ranked (perhaps they won't see it as competition if your other offer is from a school ranked a lot lower).

I'm probably TOTALLY over thinking all of this. But I'm having a hard enough time as it is just deciding where I would like to go before even considering funding (though I know funding will definitely have some sway in the end).

Edited February 9, 2014 by overlyresearched

[amlobo]

Well, in my case, the school whose visit I attended accepted me first, plus it was higher-ranked, so I think the other school completely understood.  The other school was incredibly accommodating; they had some grad students show me around all day, I met one-on-one with the grad coordinator to discuss funding/etc., plus my POI took me out to lunch, and they paid for my visit.  It was a great experience even though it wasn't the official visit.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't try to negotiate funding until you have a top few choices narrowed down.  And, just be mindful of how you approach any such negotiations.  POIs understand that you have other offers, but they also do not want to hear that your decision is coming down to who will pay you the most.  You want to really get across that your priority is receiving the best training you can and choosing the school/professor that can help you accomplish your goals - but that when confronted with two comparable choices with disparate offers, funding necessarily becomes a factor you have to really consider.  

 

I will say, in my situation, when it came down to my top two choices, neither could negotiate funding.  One was private, one was public; they were both similarly ranked.  They simply pay everyone the same, and it didn't matter what your other offers were.  

[overlyresearched]

Well, in my case, the school whose visit I attended accepted me first, plus it was higher-ranked, so I think the other school completely understood.  The other school was incredibly accommodating; they had some grad students show me around all day, I met one-on-one with the grad coordinator to discuss funding/etc., plus my POI took me out to lunch, and they paid for my visit.  It was a great experience even though it wasn't the official visit.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't try to negotiate funding until you have a top few choices narrowed down.  And, just be mindful of how you approach any such negotiations.  POIs understand that you have other offers, but they also do not want to hear that your decision is coming down to who will pay you the most.  You want to really get across that your priority is receiving the best training you can and choosing the school/professor that can help you accomplish your goals - but that when confronted with two comparable choices with disparate offers, funding necessarily becomes a factor you have to really consider.  

 

I will say, in my situation, when it came down to my top two choices, neither could negotiate funding.  One was private, one was public; they were both similarly ranked.  They simply pay everyone the same, and it didn't matter what your other offers were.

Thanks for the insight.

[gilbertrollins]

I shared my acceptances with all programs I visited, five of them, and had transparent, detailed, and helpful conversations with faculty at all of these programs about the comparative advantages of each program.  It was a great opportunity to get lots of advice about planning my career.  I attempted to negotiate my finances at two of those programs, by citing higher (cost of living adjusted) offers from other programs -- neither of those attempts worked, and neither of them resulted in uncomfortable or unprofessional conversation.  

[Darth.Vegan]

Reposting this from the official decision thread with some added info....

At UCI, and many other UC's, the initial funding package of a 5 year guaranteed TA'ship (with 17k stipend) and healthcare is offered to everyone that is accepted. That was my initial funding offer. Upon informing UCI of my concerns over cost of living in Irvine, and my competing offers from other programs, I was offered the deans recruitment fellowship which has actually been increased to $6000. In addition, I was given $3000 for my first summer, with no work obligations whatsoever. Some students that accepted early, got no additional funding, others got even better offers than I did (as a result of competing offers from top 10 and top 20 programs), including funding for 3 summers, or full year long fellowships with no work obligations. 

This wasn't isolated to UCI, the other program I was seriously considering was UCSD. Their funding works a little differently in that they don't guarantee TA'ships like Irvine does, their funding offers typically come with little to no work requirements, but often fall short of the full 5 year guarantees that students have come to expect. My initial offer was only for 1 year, with no work requirements whatsoever. They say they can typically fund students through TA'ships, readerships and RA'ships through 5-7 years, but they don't guarantee work related funding. Upon informing them that I had a 4 year guarantee from Oregon, they got me another year of funding with no work requirements. After I got the funding offer from UCI, they offered me a third year with no work requirements. In the end, I decided that UCI's 5 year guarantee, their constant contact throughout the recruitment process, and their job placement made them the best choice. 

 

I will say that Darth's comments are a bit Cali-centric, in that it worked for him because of the California state budget and how state schools operate with funding as a result. I would say that in a majority of cases this doesn't work, and when you talk to schools that accept you they are very upfront about their ability to add incentives like summer funding. However a lab partner of mine in undergrad managed to secure a fellowship as a result of negotiations on decision day a few years back at a state school so it is really not entirely false.

 

So I would just like to add, my personal experience with this was not limited to California schools. 

I included UCI and UCSD because I felt they were the most directly comparable to each other and were the direct result of negotiations. 

Oregon also offered me this, a few weeks after the initial offer: 

I am happy to inform you that the Dean of the Graduate School has selected you to receive a Graduate School Promising Scholar Award for the 2013-14 academic year. This award is intended to recruit outstanding new students who bring unique perspectives or outlooks to our campus.

 

The Promising Scholar Award is for one year and consists of a stipend of $7,000.  This stipend is in addition to the GTF position (and the salary that comes with it) that the department is also offering you, which was explained in the letter we sent previously about your admission to the program.  This award is not related to your regular GTF work assignment. 

 

 

Less comparable but still relevant: 

The environmental justice MA program at Michigan, came back with an offer of a 10k fellowship for the first year on top of a TA'ship

University of Oklahoma offered me a 10k fellowship for 2 years on top of the standard TA'ship

Victoria and Simon Fraser both came back with better funding offers as well. 

I realize that some of these do not have the same prestige and may be comparing apples to oranges. I am simply giving my personal experience so people can understand what is possible. It doesn't hurt to negotiate in my opinion, as long as you are polite and tactful in doing so. It may not work, but really, what is there to lose? For programs with stipends in the 10-20k range, trying to secure extra funding can be really important for your financial security. For those at private schools with larger stipends, this is less important. 

Anyway, I appreciate all the input on this. Every program is different, and it's important to remember that your milage may vary. 

Edited February 26, 2014 by xdarthveganx

[overlyresearched]

I would just like to echo @xdarthveganx's perspective. After getting some insights through this board I went ahead and initiated some negotiations and thus far - while things are not completely hammered out yet - it's gone pretty well.

The departments I contacted have been very willing to discuss negotiation with me, have been straightforward about what they can/can't do, and I've already had some small adjustments to my offers, with additional ones promised in the next few weeks. Negotiation is possible, including changing a TA obligation to perhaps an initial fellowship year, etc and/or getting summer funding, or slightly increasing a fellowship amount (albeit TA stipends seem pretty set).

I understand this is not the case with all schools, and probably requires you to have at least a few offers to use as leverage, but it is not impossible, and is probably worth trying if you are fortunate enough to be in that situation and funding would actually impact your decision (probably a waste of time if you ask a school you're not truly considering). I have not gotten the impression from any department that my asking was inappropriate.

Just my 2 cents.

[mormlib]

Thanks for al of your input. It's been helpful.

@xdarthveganx:: Thanks for the insight. I ended up reading the acceptances thread from last year for some insight and noticed your progress with getting in to various schools and then negotiating funding. Were many of those who were willing to negotiate publicaly funded schools? I could be wrong but it seems like the UC schools are implying their offers are pretty much standard without much room (though I haven't actually come out and asked for anything yet). Feel free to PM.

@mormlib:: Are your professors negative view of schools like this solely regarding funding or in other areas too? Feel free to PM.

@amlobo:: Thanks for the insights on visits. Did the schools you rescheduled visits for seem to care you chose another official visit over theirs? It sounds like probably not. My strategy for right now I think will be to go to the one that informed me first (unless I strongly prefer the other one).

One last question/thought for anyone:: Would you wait to pursue negotiating funding as your offers come in or wait until you know your offers from everywhere? Is there a rush or anything to negotiate before others do? And do you think funding negotiations will only work if the school offering you more is equally or higher ranked (perhaps they won't see it as competition if your other offer is from a school ranked a lot lower).

I'm probably TOTALLY over thinking all of this. But I'm having a hard enough time as it is just deciding where I would like to go before even considering funding (though I know funding will definitely have some sway in the end).

The only criticisms that I've heard is that top programs are competitive (but a lot of these may just by myths about students trying to sabotage each other), fixed on funding, and having people that can really focus on mentoring. Since they are so focused on research, many professors at top universities can't give as much time as other places. (This is all from others and not my own personal experience). 

[onehardtaco]

I am under the impression that negotiations are expected and common. I am currently in a terminal MA program, and my letter writers all advised me (and my classmates) to negotiate with your top two or three schools when it becomes appropriate. By negotiate they mean to disclose your offers, state who they are from, why you'd like to attend their program but also why you have not accepted their offer yet, and to discuss any concerns you may have about their initial offer. As noted above, nothing may come of this, but it certainly doesn't hurt, nor does it leave a bad impression. In fact, it can benefit you.

 

I just wanted to add to this discussion that there are faculty out there who endorse doing this. 

 

With that said, I currently only have one offer, and anticipate only one (possibly two) more acceptance/s, so I am not yet in such a position.

 

Good luck to all. 

[RabbitFood]

I was originally not going to try and negotiate funding but my undergrad mentor advised me otherwise, I just didn't want to deal with having to disclose specific amounts and try to negotiate or whatever. Plus being a first generation college student and thinking I wasn't going to get into any grad programs made me thankful to have just gotten in anywhere and I didn't want to feel like I was being a brat in trying to get more money ha.

 

What I ended up doing, and what I think helped in making the process easier, is that once I had narrowed down my decision to a top 3 is when I decided to disclose the amounts to those top 3. I had been asked before but did not want to stress them out in trying to secure additional funding for me if I wasn't legitimately considering the program. For example, with UCI I had a very good initial funding package (including a fellowship) but once I let them know that they were in my top 3 choices the grad directors mobilized and applied on my behalf to secure some additional sources of funding. They asked that whenever offers were updated for my other two choices that I please let them know and they also checked in quite often. 

 

A friend of mine who is also a first year in my program is annoyed with herself that she accepted her offer so quickly when she had much better offers from some of her other top choices. She says if she could do it again she would definitely say something.

 

As some have said before, it also does vary depending on the program. Some are going to be able to offer you extra money right away, some might have to jump through hoops to get you more. Feel free to pm if you have any specific things you might want to discuss.

[Vader Was Framed]

Great information folks and thanks for your willingness to share. 

 

One extra question that I haven't necessarily seen covered:

 

Who do you typically aim these negotiations to? The staff coordinator? Graduate Director (professor)? Your POI(s)? All of the above? .... Or is the answer simply to negotiate with whatever person/entity sent you the initial offer. 

[Darth.Vegan]

Great information folks and thanks for your willingness to share. 

 

One extra question that I haven't necessarily seen covered:

 

Who do you typically aim these negotiations to? The staff coordinator? Graduate Director (professor)? Your POI(s)? All of the above? .... Or is the answer simply to negotiate with whatever person/entity sent you the initial offer. 

 

 

I get the feeling that this varies by department. In my process of negotiation started and ended with the grad directed who was in contact on a continual basis about their offer. They even gave me sage (even if biased) advice on my other offers, and asked if I had competing offers, and/or issues that made me hesitant to accept. I then expressed concerns over cost of living and explained the different offers I had from various programs.