Are u ready for round 2? MA international applicant

[WendyWonderland]

Hey community.

Just received a rejection from Syracuse this morning which crushed my heart. Though I still have to hear from Harvard Columbia and Princeton, I would say the possibilities are like a ice cream staying fresh in the summer:)

I have think about a lot of things recently. I graduated from one of the Tops in China, ranking No.1. I did my master with a GPA which was the best of the whole class lasted for 3 years. Have learned 5 languages, 2 publications but I guess I am still not competitive enough. So I think maybe I should do a master in the US first, maybe they don't value MA from international developing countries that much. So I decided to apply to MAs this weekend. Sigh.... I guess best things in life always need hard work and persistence. I guess if I can study 2 years in the US I would be more competitive for phd later. What do u guys think?

Any recommended programs with late ddl? My interest is comparative literature.

Cheers~

Wendy

[ExponentialDecay]

if you hadn't already done so, i would urge you to research the cvs of current graduate students in the programs you are applying to. after a brief search of grad students in the harvard, princeton, and columbia programs, i found quite a few people with BAs and MAs from China, so it doesn't appear that the adcomms have an overwhelming preference for non-developing country degrees. however, more education, if you're trying to enter academia, is never a bad thing.

 

that said, based on your syntax, your english writing samples may not be as stylistically strong as other applicants'. maybe comp lit programs give leeway to non-native speakers, but since the writing is a significant part of the scholarship, i would err on the side of skepticism. in light of that, maybe an MA in the states wouldn't be a bad thing, for general fluency and for an understanding of the nuances of the western standards of scholarship.

[bhr]

Hey community.

Just received a rejection from Syracuse this morning which crushed my heart. Though I still have to hear from Harvard Columbia and Princeton, I would say the possibilities are like a ice cream staying fresh in the summer:)

I have think about a lot of things recently. I graduated from one of the Tops in China, ranking No.1. I did my master with a GPA which was the best of the whole class lasted for 3 years. Have learned 5 languages, 2 publications but I guess I am still not competitive enough. So I think maybe I should do a master in the US first, maybe they don't value MA from international developing countries that much. So I decided to apply to MAs this weekend. Sigh.... I guess best things in life always need hard work and persistence. I guess if I can study 2 years in the US I would be more competitive for phd later. What do u guys think?

Any recommended programs with late ddl? My interest is comparative literature.

Cheers~

Wendy

I don't mean to be critical, but before blaming the adcomms for having a bias against China, maybe you should explore your own resume and look for faults. It appears that you've applied to a wide variety of programs, which may have come across as unfocused in your SOP. The commenter before me also hit the nail on the head with your syntax. Now, obviously, we all write a bit "lazy" on forums like this, but if you write the same way in your application packets you are going to have problems.

 

I'm with ResLife on my campus, working with international housing, and I've heard the same argument you make from many of my residents. The fact of the matter is that you're right, your degree isn't going to count as much as one from an equivalent program in the states. The adcomms know the professors and the quality of work coming out of domestic programs, so they will carry more weight than an international program.

[ExponentialDecay]

I don't mean to be critical, but before blaming the adcomms for having a bias against China, maybe you should explore your own resume and look for faults. It appears that you've applied to a wide variety of programs, which may have come across as unfocused in your SOP. The commenter before me also hit the nail on the head with your syntax. Now, obviously, we all write a bit "lazy" on forums like this, but if you write the same way in your application packets you are going to have problems.

 

I'm with ResLife on my campus, working with international housing, and I've heard the same argument you make from many of my residents. The fact of the matter is that you're right, your degree isn't going to count as much as one from an equivalent program in the states. The adcomms know the professors and the quality of work coming out of domestic programs, so they will carry more weight than an international program.

 

thank you for your support of my statement, but you're coming across as very rude. i hope you're not this dismissive and xenophobic to your residents. not only do i not see how your residents would be making these comments if you're RA at a US institution, since they'll be getting, presumably, degrees from that institution - but you just said yourself that you believe adcomms to be biased towards US degrees. i believe that the latter is generally true, even if i haven't heard of a sorbonne or oxbridge BA having a hard time. but i am lost as to how that compels you to be a dick. we're just asking questions here. nobody's biting 'murica in the ass.

[Kamisha]

Wendy,

 

I’m sorry that you’ve had such a hard time this season. I’ve also faced a lot of disappointment and am very seriously considering applying next year instead. I’m currently finishing a Master’s degree and, while I realize that it’s not everyone’s favorite option, it honestly does wonders to acclimate you to the environment of graduate schools conventions. I have a feeling that this likely especially true for foreign applicants. 

 

Your cultural experience allows you to bring SO much to the table, especially in your field of comparative literature. It may be a little harder to reach your goals, but you’ll be such a strong scholar as a result of the unique insights you can bring to your field based on international (and personal) experiences! Remember that through the disappointing times. I would worry less about facing discrimination because of where you received your education; I don’t think that US adcomms are necessarily biased against international students. Rather, it’s just much more difficult to compare applicants when you aren’t familiar with their university. What’s more, several universities have international quotas that they like to fill or are extremely international-student friendly. Don’t approach your applications as if you have to justify your education: sell the benefits of internationalism and cultural understanding in your field. I’m actually seriously considering completing a second Master’s degree overseas, partially for those benefits.

 

What’s more, I’d like to say kudos to you on your accomplishment in learning another language to the point that you feel confident applying for PhD programs that are largely disassociated from your native tongue! That’s so impressive! I’m trying to learn two languages independently right now and it’s such a challenge. Definitely continue (as others have suggested) to try to strengthen your English syntax and structures, but be proud of your current success! 

 

Best of luck! I’m not sure what schools will have deadlines this late, but I hope you find something.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Kamisha

[bhr]

thank you for your support of my statement, but you're coming across as very rude. i hope you're not this dismissive and xenophobic to your residents. not only do i not see how your residents would be making these comments if you're RA at a US institution, since they'll be getting, presumably, degrees from that institution - but you just said yourself that you believe adcomms to be biased towards US degrees. i believe that the latter is generally true, even if i haven't heard of a sorbonne or oxbridge BA having a hard time. but i am lost as to how that compels you to be a dick. we're just asking questions here. nobody's biting 'murica in the ass.

Excuse me, but that's two insults you've thrown my way (three if you include apparently calling me a liar), for no reason. I've had a couple of exchanges with Wendy on here, and as far as I can tell she applied to programs for lit and rhet/comp, which does come off a bit unfocused as far as that goes if her SoP reflected that she was undecided on a PhD focus.

Now, as to the xenophobia comment you leveled at me. First, my residents are exchange students doing a single year here, (at a small state school) so their degree won't reflect their work stateside at all. Now, back to the OP here. She thinks that the adcomms undervalued her MA because it comes from China, and I actually agreed with her. It's likely that she has an extra obstacle to overcome when applying to programs, merely because her university won't carry the same weight as a program that the adcomm is familiar with.

 

One of the dirty little secrets that they never mention to us when we apply to school is that the track record of our MA or BA program at that school matters. If I go to a top program and bounce out it will likely hurt the next person from my program who applies. If they have no experience with your program, you need to wow them to convince someone that you are worth being the first. Schools with 100% placement rates don't just have them because they have a big name, but because they consistently turn out graduates who succeed at the next level.

 

For Wendy, if her program doesn't have cache stateside it's going to be an obstacle, but not one really that she can fix. I stand by my argument that getting feedback on things like her SOP and CV and improving them will have a decent impact on her shot to make it to the next level. I really don't think that the adcomms are biased against "developing nations," they just don't know enough about the schools for them to help. It's better to focus on the stuff you can control.

 

Btw, my argument also applies to folks like myself, who are the first people to come out of their US-based program and apply to top programs. An MA from a top school in China, especially if it isn't producing well-publicized research, matters about as much as a degree from University of East Podunk  on your resume.The Sorbonne, Oxford and that ilk are well known and respected here, but the same can't be said for schools in the rest of the world (or even in this country.)

 

 

And it's 2 in the morning and I've got an 8am. Nodding off typing this.

[WendyWonderland]

First I would like to thank to the people here who replied my post, it shows consideration and I appreciate it a lot.

@bhr, please don't feel offended, I did not mean that the committee are biased against students from developing contries, I said " maybe they don't value that much". What I mean is even from the best of the best, it might still has a distance from the American academic requirements, that's why I am applying for MA now, to get into the system. I told my background because I felt depressed, and it was a big slap to my ego. Maybe you don't understand, but maybe your Chinese friends, if u have any, can tell you how hard it is to make it to the Top 1-Top 3, and what it means. In our system, we do not apply, exams have started ever since elementary schools. It was very cruel in high school, they ranked the whole class and u can see every single note of yourself and your classmates posted at the wall of your classroom. I did not apply to good schools without a reason, I thought if I am qualified here maybe I am also qualified elsewhere. ( too young too naive lol) But, you and a lot of ppl here are right that my English is not good enough based on my posts. It is not even my second language, it is my third language. So maybe my expression was not accurate enough but I am not looking for excuses here, just pointed out a fact, that after 3 years of training, unfortunately it is still not good enough. My writing sample and my PS I let my foreign friends and colleagues ( German ) reviewed, they said they were impressed or touched. But I guess for Ivies u need to be outstanding:) I am applying to normal MAs now because I think that would give me two years to improve my English writing. Once international students are in the system and got better training of the writing in English, at least it might be easier for me because I don't need so much time to work hard on languages anymore. I just have to focus on theories and literary pieces. Creative academic mind is what counts at the end anyway. So I am ok with 2 years delay, it might offer me a better CV.

Truth is I did apply to the Syracuse CCR program, because I like the concept of the program. It's not only rhetoric focused, also on culture studies, teaching and writing. Others have been all comparative literature.

I started this thread to find ppl who also have the same idea or were unlucky and we can encourage each other or share information. Life have been tough enough. Going back to work.

[WendyWonderland]

if you hadn't already done so, i would urge you to research the cvs of current graduate students in the programs you are applying to. after a brief search of grad students in the harvard, princeton, and columbia programs, i found quite a few people with BAs and MAs from China, so it doesn't appear that the adcomms have an overwhelming preference for non-developing country degrees. however, more education, if you're trying to enter academia, is never a bad thing.

that said, based on your syntax, your english writing samples may not be as stylistically strong as other applicants'. maybe comp lit programs give leeway to non-native speakers, but since the writing is a significant part of the scholarship, i would err on the side of skepticism. in light of that, maybe an MA in the states wouldn't be a bad thing, for general fluency and for an understanding of the nuances of the western standards of scholarship.

Hey~ thanks for the tip. I did dig into the background of current students at Syracuse, most of them hold an English MA or BA and the degrees come from US colleges. Of course I know that there are Chinese students with Chinese BA/ MA at the top schools. I personally know people studying at Harvard who came from the same institute where I did my MA. But they had awesome exchange semesters at Oxford and Harvard when I did an internship at the British Council. I guess back then I wanted to work first and apply to graduate school afterwards so that I could experience both worlds. According to my parents this is a big mistake, but I can't say that I regret it. Taking a break from studying all day did offer me other possibilities to explore life from another perspective. Also my research interest has always been culture studies so I thought that first hand work experience might help. I am a little bit out of academic training I have to say, that's why I totally agree to your point that a MA in the States would help.

Now here comes the question, where to take it? I don't even know how much the schools require for MAs. I wrote to a professor to City College of New York, he told me that I seem like a viable candidate, but I know that ddl was already passed for CUNY. I also love creative writing, so I would like to live in a big city where I can experience a lot to trigger the inspiration. But considering the cost... No fundings for international students, I really have to figure out what to do:)

[WendyWonderland]

Wendy,

 

I’m sorry that you’ve had such a hard time this season. I’ve also faced a lot of disappointment and am very seriously considering applying next year instead. I’m currently finishing a Master’s degree and, while I realize that it’s not everyone’s favorite option, it honestly does wonders to acclimate you to the environment of graduate schools conventions. I have a feeling that this likely especially true for foreign applicants. 

 

Your cultural experience allows you to bring SO much to the table, especially in your field of comparative literature. It may be a little harder to reach your goals, but you’ll be such a strong scholar as a result of the unique insights you can bring to your field based on international (and personal) experiences! Remember that through the disappointing times. I would worry less about facing discrimination because of where you received your education; I don’t think that US adcomms are necessarily biased against international students. Rather, it’s just much more difficult to compare applicants when you aren’t familiar with their university. What’s more, several universities have international quotas that they like to fill or are extremely international-student friendly. Don’t approach your applications as if you have to justify your education: sell the benefits of internationalism and cultural understanding in your field. I’m actually seriously considering completing a second Master’s degree overseas, partially for those benefits.

 

What’s more, I’d like to say kudos to you on your accomplishment in learning another language to the point that you feel confident applying for PhD programs that are largely disassociated from your native tongue! That’s so impressive! I’m trying to learn two languages independently right now and it’s such a challenge. Definitely continue (as others have suggested) to try to strengthen your English syntax and structures, but be proud of your current success! 

 

Best of luck! I’m not sure what schools will have deadlines this late, but I hope you find something.

 

Dear Kamisha,

thank you sooo much  for your reply!  Ever since I entered this Forum, you have always been supportive and your answers made me feel warm.

I am sorry that things did not worked out as you hoped, but I think if you have an acceptance, no matter where, maybe you can register first and see what happens. I know that you have applied to a lot of schools, and the game is not over yet. At least you can transfer after becoming a graduate student if you really do not like it.

I kind of feel sorry that I only found this website after I applied, I should be here earlier in order to know better. But as you told me in another thread, everything happens for a reason (I also believe that!), so maybe it is destined that I should find out that I am not as competitive as I thought and that I should focus more on learning English. And maybe it is better to enter a MA first this fall or start fresh to reapply, who knows, God works in mysterious ways:)

Learning another language is because I thought it would make me more competitive. I chose French since I love French literature. I know how hard it is to work on different languages at the same time every day. To be honest, I really think that this confused my brain, and even affected my mother tongue. Good luck to you in learning languages, it is fun and definitely the key to another culture.

There are also a lot of domestic Forums like this in China, and the funny thing is a lot of people know about grad cafe, but they do not use it a lot, even recommend others not to do it. Their theory is that it would not help since here are mostly US students. We count GPAs differently, you don’t have to take Toefl IBT and stalking it would hurt our egos  etc.

But I think I am quite lucky to be here because ppl here always share a lot of information. Also did I not know that fit counts so much in an application. In China we say Ph.D.=People have dreams. Maybe it is delayed, but better to keep dreaming and not giving up.

 

Another question: do you think that age matters? I am in my late twenties. Personally I think that reapply this fall would be a better idea. But there are many voices telling me the sooner the better. That is why I am looking for schools with late MA deadlines. I have found some, but I am not sure what to think about them. Do you know anything about the State University of California or Loyola Marymount?

Thanks!

Have a nice day and greeting from meJ  

[Fiz]

Im from California. What the heck is the state university of california? I never heard of it? Or do you mean the cal state system. There are a ton of campuses, San Diego, San Francisco, and Long Beach being the most prestigious when it comes to English, if prestigious can even be said of a state school. I got into Long Beach but chose not to attend. Funding is pitiful at the state MA level and not worth it. Btw, since ur a foreigner and IF finances are an issue, stay the hell away from the California education system right now. Youre gonna eat it. Im glad I got out of that mess.

Loyola is privatized and a Catholic college, if that is your belief, but the area is beautiful. I used to live there. Youre so close to the water!!

Edited February 24, 2014 by Fiz

[WendyWonderland]

Im from California. What the heck is the state university of california? I never heard of it? Or do you mean the cal state system. There are a ton of campuses, San Diego, San Francisco, and Long Beach being the most prestigious when it comes to English, if prestigious can even be said of a state school. I got into Long Beach but chose not to attend. Funding is pitiful at the state MA level and not worth it. Btw, since ur a foreigner and IF finances are an issue, stay the hell away from the California education system right now. Youre gonna eat it. Im glad I got out of that mess.

Loyola is privatized and a Catholic college, if that is your belief, but the are is beautiful. Youre so close to the water!!

Oh really? I heard that UCs are not in good condition now. I mean State University of California, English MA. I might apply to Loyola then:) my friend is in film studies there:)

[ExponentialDecay]

@bhr

 

i'm not calling you a liar. i am calling your argument logically inconsistent. you might want to fix that defensiveness if you hope for a successful career in academia.

 

here's your logic:

 

1. a person is worried that their foreign degree counts for less than an equivalent degree from a US institution

2. i, bhr, believe that foreign degrees count for less than their equivalent from a US institution

---

3. U MAD BRO???

 

you're basically calling her out for observing exactly what you have observed. 

 

again, i agree with most of what you're saying. like duh, ceteris paribus, a foreign applicant will have to work harder to get where they need to be than a US applicant - i don't think you understand how much harder, really, if you're comparing their plight to the plight of an american citizen from podunk u. but you can't blame people for figuring out what affects their position. and of course she can fix it - she can get an MA in the states, which is what she wants to do. absolutely, any glaring errors in her application materials will hold her back, MA or no MA - but, from what I understand, the purpose of the MA is either to mask poor undergrad grades, or to get acclimatized to the system. the academic culture here is very abstruse for those who weren't coached in it.

 

this argument has been rehashed like 4 times on this topic, so i'll stop. my purpose in this reply was more to ask you to watch where you're going.

 

that said, what school ever has a placement rate of 100%?? that's a statistical impossibility, because to get an odds of 1 you would need infinitely strong evidence, which is impossible. i get that it will be harder for you to get accepted into Harvard because of x, y, z, but we at selective schools, for all our famous professors, track records, and salmon board shorts, we also face gambling odds.

Edited February 24, 2014 by exponentialdecay

[Kamisha]

Dear Kamisha,

thank you sooo much  for your reply!  Ever since I entered this Forum, you have always been supportive and your answers made me feel warm.

I am sorry that things did not worked out as you hoped, but I think if you have an acceptance, no matter where, maybe you can register first and see what happens. I know that you have applied to a lot of schools, and the game is not over yet. At least you can transfer after becoming a graduate student if you really do not like it.

I kind of feel sorry that I only found this website after I applied, I should be here earlier in order to know better. But as you told me in another thread, everything happens for a reason (I also believe that!), so maybe it is destined that I should find out that I am not as competitive as I thought and that I should focus more on learning English. And maybe it is better to enter a MA first this fall or start fresh to reapply, who knows, God works in mysterious ways:)

Learning another language is because I thought it would make me more competitive. I chose French since I love French literature. I know how hard it is to work on different languages at the same time every day. To be honest, I really think that this confused my brain, and even affected my mother tongue. Good luck to you in learning languages, it is fun and definitely the key to another culture.

There are also a lot of domestic Forums like this in China, and the funny thing is a lot of people know about grad cafe, but they do not use it a lot, even recommend others not to do it. Their theory is that it would not help since here are mostly US students. We count GPAs differently, you don’t have to take Toefl IBT and stalking it would hurt our egos  etc.

But I think I am quite lucky to be here because ppl here always share a lot of information. Also did I not know that fit counts so much in an application. In China we say Ph.D.=People have dreams. Maybe it is delayed, but better to keep dreaming and not giving up.

 

Another question: do you think that age matters? I am in my late twenties. Personally I think that reapply this fall would be a better idea. But there are many voices telling me the sooner the better. That is why I am looking for schools with late MA deadlines. I have found some, but I am not sure what to think about them. Do you know anything about the State University of California or Loyola Marymount?

Thanks!

Have a nice day and greeting from meJ  

 

Wendy,

 

I love that expression: “PhD = People Have Dreams.” How wonderful! 

 

From what I understand, age is relatively unimportant. It’s all about your program fit. I’m in my mid-twenties right now and, though I don’t have any statistics to back this up and could be entirely wrong, I’m pretty sure the average age of a PhD applicant is likely between 22-35. It’s becoming more and more common to take a year or two off and work before beginning advanced degrees. As you are only in your late-twenties, I wouldn’t let concerns about age drive your decision to apply nor or wait until Fall. It’s only a few months difference, really, and if waiting until Fall means you have more options that you’d be happier with, it might be worth it.  

 

I don’t have any personal experience with the two universities you mentioned, though I’ve heard great things about Loyola Marymount. If you do apply, best of luck!