Fall 2015 Applicants

[queennight]

Hahaha we all have so much on our plates! It's simultaneously inspiring and gut wrenching, if you know what I mean.

Queennight, don't worry I haven't asked any of my professors anything serious as far as recommending or advising. The thought of being rejected by a potential recommender makes me want to throw up. The department in my school is rather large so there has been only 2 professors who have instructed more than one of my classes in the 3 years I have been at this school. One of them happens to be my advisor too. Ugh.

100%!! I think the worst part is the asking - I think I'd prefer to do it in person, but standing around awkwardly during their office hours and then shooting them puppy dog eyes while mentally begging them to say yes is just so nervewracking. I already had to do this for my MA application and it was pretty much eye-gouging-out worthy. Not that any of the profs replied in a negative way - but it's just so awkward. I feel like I'm asking for a massive, massive favour.

[Dr. Old Bill]

Really? My experience was different, to be honest. With the first of the professors I asked, it just came up rather organically. I was in his office chatting about other stuff, and it led to my interest in graduate school, and I basically just said (totally off-the-cuff), "So when the time comes, would you be willing to write me a letter of recommendation?" and he quickly answered "Oh, of course!" The second professor I asked was my advisor, and he's a somewhat crusty old man who is a tough grader (the only non-A English papers I've ever written were in one of his courses). I had a couple of things to talk to him about, but when I broached the topic of him writing a LOR for me, I said "Professor, I have a two-part question for you. One, would you be willing to write me a letter of recommendation, and two, if you are willing, would you say good things about me?" He chuckled and replied something to the effect of "Well I would never do the former if I wasn't willing to do the latter, and I would certainly be more than happy to write you a glowing letter..." And with my third professor, who I truly adore, it was another "matter of course" request. There was a fourth professor too, who I asked when I was considering the comp/rhet path, and it came up during a conversation about his graduate school path (he was quite young).

 

What I get from this is that so long as they know who you are and know your work, and you've distinguished yourself at least a little bit, then there's really no need for any awkwardness when you ask. Then again, I'm a pretty outgoing person and perhaps don't treat the professorial divide quite as strictly as I should. There's nothing I like more than to just chat with professors, and my slightly higher age probably takes away a bit of any potential shyness. (There is a kind of confidence that comes from simply being a bit older and more experienced, I must admit). But the big takeaway is that you should be noticeable. Try to talk as much as you can in class without being "the talker," and as long as you don't come across as obsequious, your professors will likely appreciate your contributions. In a few private discussions I've had with professors, more than one has admitted that he/she hates being the only one who speaks in class and can never know which students are truly engaged when they don't make a peep. So...peep!

[jhefflol]

JUST out of pure, unadulterated curiosity, does your institution allow you to take a course pass/fail? If so, that might be an option for your "funsies" course. I haven't taken a course pass/fail yet personally, but I'm planning on doing so in my spring semester, since I'll need to take one non-major course anyhow.

 

 

I just saw this. Oops! I can take classes P/F, and almost did so for my French class last semester. But my concern is less my GPA being effected as using that valuable time for something else. Not to sound too cocky, but I'm not sure how much more I could learn from that class anyway. I mean, one of the required texts was The Tempest...as a history course... I don't know. I just thought it would be interesting but now I'm thinking that sanity is much more interesting.

[Dr. Old Bill]

I just saw this. Oops! I can take classes P/F, and almost did so for my French class last semester. But my concern is less my GPA being effected as using that valuable time for something else. Not to sound too cocky, but I'm not sure how much more I could learn from that class anyway. I mean, one of the required texts was The Tempest...as a history course... I don't know. I just thought it would be interesting but now I'm thinking that sanity is much more interesting.

 

Yeah, that sounds pretty valid to me! There are always courses that would be fun to take, but the application process will probably require the same amount of time that you would otherwise dedicate to that course. Probably most prudent to give it a miss.

[jhefflol]

What I get from this is that so long as they know who you are and know your work, and you've distinguished yourself at least a little bit, then there's really no need for any awkwardness when you ask. Then again, I'm a pretty outgoing person and perhaps don't treat the professorial divide quite as strictly as I should. There's nothing I like more than to just chat with professors, and my slightly higher age probably takes away a bit of any potential shyness. (There is a kind of confidence that comes from simply being a bit older and more experienced, I must admit). But the big takeaway is that you should be noticeable. Try to talk as much as you can in class without being "the talker," and as long as you don't come across as obsequious, your professors will likely appreciate your contributions. In a few private discussions I've had with professors, more than one has admitted that he/she hates being the only one who speaks in class and can never know which students are truly engaged when they don't make a peep. So...peep!

 

Yes. This is great advice. My problem is that I'm fairly certain that my professors will say yes just because they're absolutely nice people, but I haven't been as involved in my program as I should be. Don't get me wrong, I show up to class every day and participate. I just didn't make much use of office hours unless I really absolutely needed it. And I'm starting to regret that. Last year I worked 55+ hours a week so I spent any extra time sleeping. And the have been medical issues too, but I have only told 1 professor about that because her class was the only class that was effected by my treatment. So basically my outside life kept me from being 100% a grad student and I'm worried that will work against me.

 

I'm glad you brought up the age thing because that's another concern of mine. I plowed straight through my BA in 4 years and will be finishing my MA in two, meaning that I'm in my very early 20s. I'm the youngest person in my program by a few years (most are in their late 20s and up) so I've had to fight to be taken seriously. I'm the only person in my program who wears business casual every freaking day and I don't mean to say that to speak ill of my classmates: its just because they don't have to worry about being taken seriously. I've simply adopted business casual as my way of silently jumping up and down and waving my hands to shout, "Hey! I'm here too!" without all the drama. I'm hoping that my professors see my age as a sign of ambition and maturity for my years instead of viewing me as inexperienced.

[hreaðemus]

Another thing to keep in mind about recommenders is that it is literally part of a professor's JOB to write us letters if we have been good students, participated to a reasonable degree, and so on. I have been lucky enough to form really close relationships with three professors in my department, so I haven't had to make requests of people I don't already know quite well, but it can be done... one of my favorite professors said to me recently, when I was waiting to hear back from a fourth recommender about a scholarship application, that "you're not asking for anything inappropriate - you're not even asking for a favor, although of course it's always couched in those terms. Writing letters for students is a big part of a professor's job." And she's a senior professor in the department, a quite famous poet (albeit in a field so different from my own that I had no idea) - in short, she knows what she's talking about.

 

We all have every right to ask for their support!

Edited August 14, 2014 by hreaðemus

[Poiple]

I'd like to echo what everyone else has said and say that I've been told by people at Berkeley that the LoRs are not so important. Everyone gets a good letter of recommendation because if the tutor didn't have nice things to say they wouldn't bother writing one in the first place. And because everyone gets good letters they don't really matter and aren't very helpful.

 

This is only what I've been told, and it could be different for other schools, so take it with a pinch of salt!

[Dr. Old Bill]

I'd like to echo what everyone else has said and say that I've been told by people at Berkeley that the LoRs are not so important. Everyone gets a good letter of recommendation because if the tutor didn't have nice things to say they wouldn't bother writing one in the first place. And because everyone gets good letters they don't really matter and aren't very helpful.

 

This is only what I've been told, and it could be different for other schools, so take it with a pinch of salt!

 

One of my LOR writers said the same thing. He's old, sarcastic, and cynical (but brilliant, and a very kind man underneath), but he told me that LORs mean very little...and that makes sense, really. The main thing to consider is that they all have to be good. As with the other aspects like GRE and GPA etc., they don't receive a lot of weight individually, because there's an expectation that they'll be good. So too with LORs: a good one may not help you, but a mediocre one will likely hurt you.

[Poiple]

 

 

a good one may not help you, but a mediocre one will likely hurt you.

 

Never a truer word was spoken

[unræd]

Another thing to keep in mind about recommenders is that it is literally part of a professor's JOB to write us letters if we have been good students, participated to a reasonable degree, and so on. I have been lucky enough to form really close relationships with three professors in my department, so I haven't had to make requests of people I don't already know quite well, but it can be done... one of my favorite professors said to me recently, when I was waiting to hear back from a fourth recommender about a scholarship application, that "you're not asking for anything inappropriate - you're not even asking for a favor, although of course it's always couched in those terms. Writing letters for students is a big part of a professor's job." And she's a senior professor in the department, a quite famous poet (albeit in a field so different from my own that I had no idea) - in short, she knows what she's talking about.

 

We all have every right to ask for their support!

 

And it goes both ways--I was asked earlier this summer to write a letter of recommendation for a former professor's (not one of my letter writers, so it's not some tit-for-tat thing) promotion committee. I've never felt awkward asking profs for them, but if I had, that would have put an end to it right quick!

[Dr. Old Bill]

I just have to say... I'm in the middle of filling out the first of my applications, and it feels so damn great. I'm glad that WUSTL opens their application process so early! It has a great program. I'm still waiting on my WS readers to get back to me, but it's so exciting to finally be starting this for real!

Minor question for all of you: some institutions (like WUSTL) say that you can send them your GRE lit scores, but that they probably won't factor into the decision. Do you think it's generally worthwhile to do so, or is it truly a waste?

[hreaðemus]

I was told by my research advisor this summer (an anthropology 7th-year Ph.D. student) that LORs can carry more weight if they are from a well-known academic - like, a bit of a superstar - IF that superstar provides an individualized letter that really indicates a close relationship with rather than just a polite interest in the student. They DO matter - let's not sell ourselves short here - but I think they matter more when they can tell a committee something about a student that wouldn't otherwise stand out or be evident. In short, when they add to an application rather than simply repeating what is obvious.

Edited August 14, 2014 by hreaðemus

[littlepigeon]

I'd like to echo what everyone else has said and say that I've been told by people at Berkeley that the LoRs are not so important. Everyone gets a good letter of recommendation because if the tutor didn't have nice things to say they wouldn't bother writing one in the first place. And because everyone gets good letters they don't really matter and aren't very helpful.

 

This is only what I've been told, and it could be different for other schools, so take it with a pinch of salt!

 

I'm compelled to add that I've heard the exact opposite from a number of already-Ph.D.-student friends, as well as professors at both institutions I've attended. I think that this sort of claim can't really be a generalization about schools/programs across the board, but rather each individual department probably cares significantly more or less about the LoRs than others do.

 

That being said, I think that if you have strong LoRs from respected scholars in the field you're trying to enter, they are especially helpful (this is why some programs specifically state that applicants ought to avoid having only non-tenured/adjunct/etc. professors write all their LoRs).

Edited August 14, 2014 by felibus

[littlepigeon]

Honestly, I probably won't send my subject score to the programs that don't require it unless it's absolutely incredible (like 85-90th percentile or, very hypothetically speaking, higher than that), since it's so freakin' expensive to send the damn things. 

[bhr]

I was specifically told by one school, and hinted at by another, that my LoR's were a major factor (since I had incredibly low GPA results and mediocre samples (that was time based, my best stuff came after app season.))

 

The way it was put to me was that the letter needs to match up with what they see in your CV, your SOP and your transcript. The professor needs to make it clear that they thing you are up to what you are promising the committee.

[Dr. Old Bill]

I was specifically told by one school, and hinted at by another, that my LoR's were a major factor (since I had incredibly low GPA results and mediocre samples (that was time based, my best stuff came after app season.))

 

The way it was put to me was that the letter needs to match up with what they see in your CV, your SOP and your transcript. The professor needs to make it clear that they thing you are up to what you are promising the committee.

 

I don't disagree with this. In fact, it makes a lot of sense. However, there's a slight paradox at work here: any LOR writer worth his/her salt would write you a good LOR, and this is true for all applicants (which is why it is always more prudent to choose a letter writer who is familiar with your work, rather than trying to seek out a more notable professor who doesn't remember you or your work very well). As a result, it can be safely assumed that most LORs will say good things about their applicants, meaning that their overall value can't be too high unless they highlight things that resonate with certain adcomm members...and it's almost impossible to know what those things actually are.

 

What I'm getting at is that like I said above, a good LOR is a matter of course and is to be expected (i.e., is a null factor). A mediocre LOR has a good chance of sinking your application entirely. But an exemplary LOR, that manages to tickle the fancy of an adcomm will probably help your application...but only if your SOP and WS are strong as well.

 

It's always worth remembering that by virtually all accounts, an application is seen as a total package. Little deficiencies in one area can be buoyed by strengths in others. GRE and GPA, as well as good LORs are closer to the realm of "checklist" items for the most part, unless they are truly exceptional. The bottom line is, however, like many others have said over years of threads in GC, you can only worry about making the things that are in your control (namely the SOP and WS) the best they can be. In most cases, your LORs will be in your control as well, so long as you choose professors who know you and your work. A professor who knows you and thinks highly of your work simply will not write you a mediocre LOR. Hopefully he/she will write you an exemplary one, but if not, that's still not going to sink an otherwise solid application.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Wyatt's Torch

[littlepigeon]

I don't disagree with this. In fact, it makes a lot of sense. However, there's a slight paradox at work here: any LOR writer worth his/her salt would write you a good LOR, and this is true for all applicants (which is why it is always more prudent to choose a letter writer who is familiar with your work, rather than trying to seek out a more notable professor who doesn't remember you or your work very well). As a result, it can be safely assumed that most LORs will say good things about their applicants, meaning that their overall value can't be too high unless they highlight things that resonate with certain adcomm members...and it's almost impossible to know what those things actually are.

 

What I'm getting at is that like I said above, a good LOR is a matter of course and is to be expected (i.e., is a null factor). A mediocre LOR has a good chance of sinking your application entirely. But an exemplary LOR, that manages to tickle the fancy of an adcomm will probably help your application...but only if your SOP and WS are strong as well.

 

It's always worth remembering that by virtually all accounts, an application is seen as a total package. Little deficiencies in one area can be buoyed by strengths in others. GRE and GPA, as well as good LORs are closer to the realm of "checklist" items for the most part, unless they are truly exceptional. The bottom line is, however, like many others have said over years of threads in GC, you can only worry about making the things that are in your control (namely the SOP and WS) the best they can be. In most cases, your LORs will be in your control as well, so long as you choose professors who know you and your work. A professor who knows you and thinks highly of your work simply will not write you a mediocre LOR. Hopefully he/she will write you an exemplary one, but if not, that's still not going to sink an otherwise solid application.

I've evidently reached my quota for up-voting posts, so I'm giving this ten of my personal (super valuable) gold stars!

[Dr. Old Bill]

I've evidently reached my quota for up-voting posts, so I'm giving this ten of my personal (super valuable) gold stars!

 

I will cherish them greatly.

[iExcelAtMicrosoftPuns]

Maybe it's been said in this thread before and it probably ought to be repeated every few pages: Prepare for a long haul. Admissions can be a terrible beast. By February blood begins to boil and things begin to change. 

You're all doing very well getting your app materials prepared early - just don't leave your mind/self/ego/psyche out of the preparation. 

Think a bit about what sort of books or hobbies you'll have to keep you busy while waiting. Think of ways you can remain collegial when the going gets tough. Maybe even familiarize yourself with your Campus Mental Health / Counseling services. There is no shame in asking for help. "You don't understand", is probably more true now than it has ever been in your undergrad career. 

Admissions is a journey. No matter the outcome, you'll learn something.

"It is better to travel well than to arrive"

[Dr. Old Bill]

Sage advice! And Bowties are cool.

 

But not as cool as fezzes!

[jhefflol]

You're all doing very well getting your app materials prepared early - just don't leave your mind/self/ego/psyche out of the preparation. 

Think a bit about what sort of books or hobbies you'll have to keep you busy while waiting. Think of ways you can remain collegial when the going gets tough. Maybe even familiarize yourself with your Campus Mental Health / Counseling services. There is no shame in asking for help. "You don't understand", is probably more true now than it has ever been in your undergrad career. 

 

 

I feel like this is so important. Does anyone have any plans to keep busy while we wait for decisions? Vacations? Projects?

 

I might be moving into a new apartment during the winter break, then I'll be too occupied with comps to be checking my inbox every hour....yeah right! Haha I'll probably be refreshing my email in between each page of research!

Edited August 17, 2014 by jhefflol

[unræd]

I've engineered it so my spring semester will be uncharacteristically light--three of my classes will require a fair bit of work, but then the other two are easy online gen ed classes. On the one hand, I wanted my last undergraduate semester to be not very intense (the word "coast" may or may not have been used), especially after the application insanity of this coming fall. On the other hand, it means that I won't have quite as much to occupy my mind during January, February, and into March. One of my classes will be a new language, which is always fun, and I can kind of throw myself into that, and I've told my workplace that while I'm not working much this fall I'll want to pick up extra hours in the spring. And then (like every English major, ever) I have stacks of books that I've always meant to read but never have, and I always nurture (again, like every English major ever) dreams of finally working my way through them.

 

(Because sitting quietly in a room with a book will TOTALLY prevent me from freaking out and checking my email every five minutes, I'm sure.)

[iwontbelyeveit]

Hi friends! Like many of you, I'm slowly but surely piecing my 2015 applications together—while also adjuncting at two different places and trying to remain sane.

 

I have an issue I've been mulling over, and I'm wondering if I could get some solid advice. One of my DREAM schools has a professor I would love to work with. Wonderfully enough, after researching her work/teaching/background, I saw that in a course syllabus she listed an article I published while I was working on my M.A. Of course I was very excited about this (and flattered to boot), but now I'm wondering if I should somehow contact her or work this point into my personal statement. Is there a way to do it tactfully, or would I just sound obnoxious? 

 

Thanks all! 

[Dr. Old Bill]

Hi friends! Like many of you, I'm slowly but surely piecing my 2015 applications together—while also adjuncting at two different places and trying to remain sane.

 

I have an issue I've been mulling over, and I'm wondering if I could get some solid advice. One of my DREAM schools has a professor I would love to work with. Wonderfully enough, after researching her work/teaching/background, I saw that in a course syllabus she listed an article I published while I was working on my M.A. Of course I was very excited about this (and flattered to boot), but now I'm wondering if I should somehow contact her or work this point into my personal statement. Is there a way to do it tactfully, or would I just sound obnoxious? 

 

Thanks all! 

 

First of all...welcome!

 

Second of all...wow, that's fantastic!

 

And third of all...yes, I would definitely reach out to that professor. Since you're already on her map to some degree, it shouldn't be all that awkward, so long as you actually have something to ask her. For instance, a good reason to contact a professor would be to get an opinion on how supported her research is at the institution, and whether or not there are others in the department who would be amenable to your research interests...then go on to talk a bit about what your focus would be if you were admitted to that school. Professors can be hit or miss about getting back to you (and you should never take it personally if they simply don't get back to you), but if you have demonstrated that you are writing at such a level that an active professor is citing/using your work, I certainly can't see the harm, while the upside is...well...potentially huge! Not huge enough to count on getting admitted to that program, but big enough to warrant maybe a little more hope than you might have had otherwise. Either way, this is a great opportunity to utilize your past scholarship to make a viable connection...which is what you'll be doing for the rest of your career, if all goes according to plan.

 

Good luck, and be sure to let us know if and how she responds!

[iwontbelyeveit]

First of all...welcome!

 

Second of all...wow, that's fantastic!

 

And third of all...yes, I would definitely reach out to that professor. Since you're already on her map to some degree, it shouldn't be all that awkward, so long as you actually have something to ask her. For instance, a good reason to contact a professor would be to get an opinion on how supported her research is at the institution, and whether or not there are others in the department who would be amenable to your research interests...then go on to talk a bit about what your focus would be if you were admitted to that school. Professors can be hit or miss about getting back to you (and you should never take it personally if they simply don't get back to you), but if you have demonstrated that you are writing at such a level that an active professor is citing/using your work, I certainly can't see the harm, while the upside is...well...potentially huge! Not huge enough to count on getting admitted to that program, but big enough to warrant maybe a little more hope than you might have had otherwise. Either way, this is a great opportunity to utilize your past scholarship to make a viable connection...which is what you'll be doing for the rest of your career, if all goes according to plan.

 

Good luck, and be sure to let us know if and how she responds!

 

Thanks, Wyatt's Torch! What a thoughtful response. I'm really proud of the work I've done in the genre, even as a measly M.A., and to have it validated like this (and by someone I want to work with) feels great.

 

I'm always reluctant to pester POIs because I feel like they can see right through it, but in this case it seems like it would be fairly appropriate. Do you think I ought to explicitly mention that I noticed she used my article, or just hope she recognizes my name? Thanks!