Deciding between teaching and grad school?

[moorea12]

Hey guys! I've been lurking all application season but this is my first post!

I'm currently a senior undergrad English - Secondary Education person... so instead of taking classes this year, I've been student teaching. I'm teaching full time this semester in a 10th grade class. It's rough at times, but I know I'm good at it and I also know I'm not in the greatest placement (apathetic mentor, terrible discipline policies, etc).

I have gone back and forth about whether I should go to grad school or get a teaching job. I'm afraid that if I don't go to school now, I never will, and I love academia. At the same time, I have a fellowship that allowed me to take zero student loans but will convert to one if I never teach in public school. So I know teaching is a good idea financially. I also enjoy teaching - I love it on the average to amazing days, but I hate it on the bad ones (perhaps because of my placement? The kids run the school).

I applied to PhD programs and didn't get in anywhere, but I got into University of South Carolina's MA program with a half-tuition waiver and a $8,000ish stipend for 10 hours a week of work (it jumps to ~$12,000 stipend second year in exchange for teaching).

I'm also waiting on a couple other MAs - one I felt meh about and the other I loved but am worried about funding options.

I also have a teaching job interview tomorrow, and if offered a job, I know I will only have a couple of DAYS (max) to decide to accept or not. Job opportunities in teaching (at least in SC) come and go extremely quickly, and there are lots of English people willing to take a job I decline.

Has anyone else been in this situation? Or is in something similar now? I know I have time to decide on USC, but teaching jobs in the school districts I like are not the easiest to get right now, and very competitive. I'm afraid to decline a teaching job and wish I hadn't later.

Edited February 25, 2014 by moorea12

[hj2012]

First off, congratulations on the offer from USC.

 

My main question after reading your post is: Why do you feel that you won't return to academia if you decide to wait a year or two? My time as a secondary educator only confirmed my desire to return to the academy (though I also love teaching).

 

Choosing to teach at the secondary level (IMO) seems to offer more positives than negatives -- the opportunity to confirm that you'd rather be in academia (not a decision to take lightly, considering the environment in higher ed these days), save up money, get life experience, etc. Also, taking some time to polish your writing sample and SoP may also yield better results for PhD programs (or fully funded MA offers).

 

I personally feel that my time out of the academy helped me put together a stronger and more compelling application package, though YMMV.

[Kamisha]

I actually have been in a very similar situation. I earned my teaching certificate while completing my undergraduate degree and then taught for a year before starting my Master’s. There are a lot of pros (and cons) on both sides of the equation. What it comes down to (and this is purely my opinion) is environment is the right “fit” for you. 

 

I actually really enjoyed teaching high school, but it never quite felt right and I always knew that I wanted to teach at the collegiate level. For me, it wasn’t even a question to go back and do the PhD thing because it was what I always wanted and because my interests and desires meant that I needed to continue research and publish forever.

 

I think hj2012’s question is a valid one: why do you think you won’t go back and continue your education later?

 

That also brings to mind another question: why do you want to complete the MA and PhD? 

 

I think answering those two questions will likely move you toward the right answer for you--and there is no right or wrong answer. Both careers are wonderful, noble, fulfilling, challenging, frustrating, exhilarating, rewarding, etc.

 

I’m sure this jumbled mess of nonsense didn’t help any, but best of luck as you make your decision. Do what’s going to make you happy! 

 

PS: To “ditto” another comment made by hj2012, taking the year out of academia and getting some teaching experience dramatically helped me in my Master’s program. It opened up a lot of opportunities that I didn’t even realize I would be missing without it. 

Edited February 25, 2014 by Kamisha

[Katia_chan]

First, you should ask yourself if you want to teach college or high-school.  You seem to have the heart for teaching high school kids, which few do (and everyone hates their job on the bad days).  If you could be happy doing only one of those, then you have your decision.  But if it's either...

 

I'm normally not one to be doom and gloom on the job market--I know it's terrible, but have never seen that as a reason not to get a degree.  However, if you think you could be happy teaching, and have a potential job lined up... take it.  If you love academia that much, you will go back to it eventually.  And you may keep loving it, but decide you don't want to work in it.  Just because you love learning you don't have to sell your soul to a PHD program.  And if you do, it could be a long time before you get a university teaching job.

 

Lastly, I don't know what it's like there, but where I am, it's fricking ridiculous how hard it is to get a teaching job with a higher degree.  Schools are forced to pay you higher, and they don't want to do it.  So if you think you might want to teach in high-school, get a job first.  Then do a MA.  There's nothing stopping you from going back, and heck, some schools will even help pay.

 

I'm not a teacher, and I don't know the specifics.  But I have several friends in education, and this is what I've picked up from them.  Hope it helps.

[Kamisha]

Lastly, I don't know what it's like there, but where I am, it's fricking ridiculous how hard it is to get a teaching job with a higher degree.  Schools are forced to pay you higher, and they don't want to do it.  So if you think you might want to teach in high-school, get a job first.  Then do a MA.  There's nothing stopping you from going back, and heck, some schools will even help pay.

 

 

This is a fantastic point. Most school districts (at least in my state) do a 3-year tenure system. If you teach for those three years, you are tenured and basically come back to teaching whenever you want if there is a job opening. It might be smart to do that, get your tenure, and then go back and get your Master’s/Doctorate. That way, even if the market is still crap by the time you graduate should you decide to do graduate school, you still have a wonderful backup plan and walk back in at a higher pay scale. 

 

If I haven’t said it before, Katia_Chan is brilliant and everyone should listen to her. 

[moorea12]

Thanks everyone!

I'm worried about not returning for a few reasons... If I taught high school, I would teach for four years in order to fulfill my fellowship and not worry about owing anyone money. But what if I got four years in and didn't want to leave? What if I was invested in the school? (It'd be a good thing, but I wouldn't want to leave it for school.)

I also know myself well enough to know that I will want to have kids, and I know I won't want to quit a teaching job and start a Masters or PhD with small children. I have a significant other who is also planning to teach, and it will be hard to attempt to potentially relocate both of us because I want to do more school. And finally, I am afraid I'll not be as "good" at academia if I leave it for so long.

I want to continue school because I don't really feel done with it. Especially as an Education person, I didn't get as many opportunities to take classes and learn and get really deep into stuff. I presented at conferences and wrote a thesis, but there was plenty I didn't get to do, especially student teaching my whole senior year. I want more. "I want to learn more" gets me some weird looks sometimes, but that's really it.

Another pro of getting a Masters is that it seems to earn you a decent amount of extra money around here for teaching high school, and schools having to pay more doesn't seem to be a huge issue.

I believe I would enjoy teaching college, and I'd be up for it, but that's not my reason for wanting to do an MA or PhD.

[Kamisha]

Thanks everyone!

I'm worried about not returning for a few reasons... If I taught high school, I would teach for four years in order to fulfill my fellowship and not worry about owing anyone money. But what if I got four years in and didn't want to leave? What if I was invested in the school? (It'd be a good thing, but I wouldn't want to leave it for school.)

I also know myself well enough to know that I will want to have kids, and I know I won't want to quit a teaching job and start a Masters or PhD with small children. I have a significant other who is also planning to teach, and it will be hard to attempt to potentially relocate both of us because I want to do more school. And finally, I am afraid I'll not be as "good" at academia if I leave it for so long.

I want to continue school because I don't really feel done with it. Especially as an Education person, I didn't get as many opportunities to take classes and learn and get really deep into stuff. I presented at conferences and wrote a thesis, but there was plenty I didn't get to do, especially student teaching my whole senior year. I want more. "I want to learn more" gets me some weird looks sometimes, but that's really it.

Another pro of getting a Masters is that it seems to earn you a decent amount of extra money around here for teaching high school, and schools having to pay more doesn't seem to be a huge issue.

I believe I would enjoy teaching college, and I'd be up for it, but that's not my reason for wanting to do an MA or PhD.

 

Have you considered enrolling in one class a semester for those four years while you teach? You’d earn your MA or PhD slower that way, but it’s doable. That way, you can still get into more of the deep stuff that you’d like to learn and you are still bringing in an income and fulfilling your fellowship. I’m a huge proponent of that. 

[iExcelAtMicrosoftPuns]

If you had gotten a PhD acceptance would the choice be easier?

[moorea12]

Have you considered enrolling in one class a semester for those four years while you teach? You’d earn your MA or PhD slower that way, but it’s doable. That way, you can still get into more of the deep stuff that you’d like to learn and you are still bringing in an income and fulfilling your fellowship. I’m a huge proponent of that. 

 

I think I need to look into this more.  I know some schools have time restrictions on how long you can work on it, so maybe I should talk to someone at USC about that option? (I'm not used to it being an option - at my current undergrad school, English MA students may still need classes offered in the afternoon before public schools let out.)

 

 

If you had gotten a PhD acceptance would the choice be easier?

 

Yeah, I really think it would.  I would be like "let's go on this adventure and do it!"  I'm not 100% sure why I feel that way.  It's also hard because I'm completely centered in teaching right now - it's hard to imagine doing something else, even though last semester I knew I wanted to go to school no matter how much I enjoyed my teaching internship.

[Katia_chan]

This is a fantastic point. Most school districts (at least in my state) do a 3-year tenure system. If you teach for those three years, you are tenured and basically come back to teaching whenever you want if there is a job opening. It might be smart to do that, get your tenure, and then go back and get your Master’s/Doctorate. That way, even if the market is still crap by the time you graduate should you decide to do graduate school, you still have a wonderful backup plan and walk back in at a higher pay scale. 

 

If I haven’t said it before, Katia_Chan is brilliant and everyone should listen to her. 

 

*hides under covers*  You are so sweet. Wrong, but sweet. <333

 

And I think the part-time MA is a fantastic idea.  Or...sign up for classes as a non-degree student.  You can take as many classes as you want, but can also just not care if you get too busy.

 

And if you don't want to leave the school after 4 years...then you wouldn't have to.  You would be happy where you were, and that is worth just as much as an MA.  Trust me, I understand the "must learn more" thing--I'm taking two classes at my former institution this semester purely for the hell of it.  But there's nothing wrong with putting other things before that.  You don't need the degree to learn more.

[semicolon2013]

Thanks everyone!

I'm worried about not returning for a few reasons... If I taught high school, I would teach for four years in order to fulfill my fellowship and not worry about owing anyone money. But what if I got four years in and didn't want to leave? What if I was invested in the school? (It'd be a good thing, but I wouldn't want to leave it for school.)

I also know myself well enough to know that I will want to have kids, and I know I won't want to quit a teaching job and start a Masters or PhD with small children. I have a significant other who is also planning to teach, and it will be hard to attempt to potentially relocate both of us because I want to do more school. And finally, I am afraid I'll not be as "good" at academia if I leave it for so long.

I want to continue school because I don't really feel done with it. Especially as an Education person, I didn't get as many opportunities to take classes and learn and get really deep into stuff. I presented at conferences and wrote a thesis, but there was plenty I didn't get to do, especially student teaching my whole senior year. I want more. "I want to learn more" gets me some weird looks sometimes, but that's really it.

Another pro of getting a Masters is that it seems to earn you a decent amount of extra money around here for teaching high school, and schools having to pay more doesn't seem to be a huge issue.

 

 

To be honest, I find your rationale a little bit strange. If you eventually find that you love teaching high school too much to leave for academia, that is a GREAT thing. If I loved anything even nearly as much as I love academic work, I would do that other thing rather than brave the brutal academic job market. If you are not absolutely sure you want to do academia, that's a sign that you should wait before pursuing it. Just wanting to "learn more" is not a good reason. You can read and learn on your own.

 

As for the point about not being as "good" if you take time off--I think it would be the opposite. The perspective and experience you gain will probably serve you well if you do decide to return to school.

 

Also, I imagine you already know this, but a masters and a PhD are very different animals, and should be pursued for different reasons. Some people might disagree, but I would argue that the only reason to pursue a PhD is because you wish to seek employment in academia. If you want to eventually teach high school, a masters might serve you well, but a PhD will not.

 

My sense is that you should take the teaching job. You can always decide to go back to school, if you realize that only more school will make you happy. Otherwise, you can build an enjoyable career in a much more realistic field and likely still have time to do plenty of learning on your own time, or maybe even in a masters program paid for by your employer.

[toasterazzi]

I think I understand where you're coming from. I've pretty much always known that I wanted to teach. I got my BA in English Education in 2010. That being said, by the time I got to the end of my program, I also felt extremely compelled to stay in school.

 

I. Love. Learning.

 

I really do. But ultimately, because of all the horror stories about note being hired with higher degrees, I decided to go the job route first. Perhaps unsurprisingly, I didn't land an actual teaching job, beyond subbing, my first year out despite probably at least 50 applications. However, I did get a teaching job the next year. For one solid school year, I taught middle school. My prior experience had mostly been with high school students, but my license was for grades 7-12, so I got in anyway. I loved teaching and my colleagues and my students, but I learned fairly quickly that 12-14 years olds were not the right age group for me despite how hard I tried to make it work. I did stick it out and try my best throughout the rest of the year, but I can't see myself ever going for a middle school job again.

 

About halfway through that year of teaching, I started getting the urge to be back in school. I knew I wanted to spend more time on the topics that especially interested me as opposed to the more generalized material I got during undergrad. I also had a feeling I'd be better suited to work with college students. That being said, we'd moved for that job and grad school would mean moving again. I could've waited, but...I've watched my mom start and stop school at least a handful of times in the last 15 years or so. She always means to go ahead and get to the next level, but she's never been able to follow through. And due to her experience, she's always advised me to go forward in academia sooner rather than later because she doesn't want to see me in the same type of position.

 

So I applied to an MA program in a place where I knew we could get set up fairly easily and that I believed would help me focus my academic interests. I got in. And here we are, almost two years later with me wrapping my MA (thesis willing) and potentially heading off to a PhD program in the fall.

 

All of this being said, I don't really have any solid advice for you. It sounds like you could take either path and still be happy, at least for a while. Sometimes you just have to choose the option that feels most right to you.