Decisions... how to choose?!? Fall 2014

[beccamayworth]

Hi everyone,

 

I know we're all still waiting for results to come... but let's say you got admitted to more than one program... how do you choose?

 

I know "best fit" is the standard answer - and I do agree, fit is most important. But what if you have a good fit with more than one program? 

 

For example: what if in one school you have a GREAT fit with one professor, but there aren't many others in the department with whom you could see yourself working... and in another school, you might not have a fantastic fit with a single professor, but there are at least a handful that could advise you/work with you?

 

Also, how much do you factor in chances for collaboration with people outside the department? In my area of interest there are always people in Psych and Cog Sci doing research as well... 

 

And finally - how important do you think it is to be in a very active department? By that I mean an environment with lots of talks, colloquia... just overall opportunities to discuss research. I tend to find this incredibly important, as it definitely inspires and motivates me. 

 

Then... funding, location, etc. 

 

To sum it up, I'm having a hard time making a decision. I still have to hear from two schools and visit one, so I know things might get clearer soon... 

 

 

 

[longforit]

I don't have an answer, but I totally agree with all your concerns--that's basically what I'm asking/looking for on the program websites theses days!!!

 

And I should add another one: you might also want to look into the job positions their alumni took in the past ten years, which is a very helpful suggestion from @Fuzzy. I would say most schools, except for the most top ones, don't have many straight-up top-program-faculty-position graduates, but you can still perceive some differences between programs. 

 

Let's wait for some more informative answers together!

Edited February 26, 2014 by longforit

[beccamayworth]

 oh that's a great point!  

[longforit]

I thought I had made my mind (And told the professors in this program) long time ago. But the kind words and nice communication with the professors, and most importantly, the interdisciplinary collaboration mode of another program really shake my confidence.. I might turn down this program eventually, but I can only imagine how hard it would be to do so!

[beccamayworth]

I hear ya!!    I am already having anxiety about possibly saying no to one of my offers, because I REALLY like the Prof. I know it's not personal and I'm sure they're used to it and know how to handle it professionally... but still. It's not only someone I greatly admire, but also someone that I would hope to work with in the future - if I end up not attending their program now. 

 

Who are you asking for advice regarding all of this? I plan on meeting with some of my current profs as soon as I have all information in hands... I'm hoping they can shed some light my way. 

[fuzzylogician]

Here are things I would consider now (and I have to admit I lucked out because I only considered some of them 5 years ago when I had to make the decision): 

- Fit with advisor, if it's a program where you mostly work with one person

- Availability of (and fit with) at least two, preferably three, other faculty members with similar interests, who could serve on your dissertation committee and write you letters of recommendation for jobs, and might act as advisors if for whatever reason you end up not getting along with the person who at the moment you want to be your advisor. Famous people with many connections will help down the line.  

- Reputation of department, placement record 

- Friendly, collaborative environment that I feel comfortable in 

(goal here: department that you feel welcomed in, that has researchers that can support your work and later on support you when you go on the job market.)

(this is very subjective. Visit all the schools you are considering, if at all possible. My impression of schools and my preferences shifted quite a bit following visits!)

 

As a second tier, I'd consider the following additional issues

- Activities, colloquia, opportunities to meet visitors and be exposed to work outside the department

- Diverse research opportunities within the department - student-student collaborations, student-prof collaborations, availability of various methods/techniques/equipment/labs that you may want to get involved with, even if you aren't sure now

- Opportunities for collaborations with researchers in other departments

(goal here: allow yourself as many opportunities to grow as a researcher, learn new methods, become interested in other sub-fields, meet people and make connections. Many people change their concentration after some time in grad school. You can't know what will happen, so you want to have as many growth opportunities as you can.)

 

Other factors I wouldn't decide based on but it's worth knowing about: 

- Travel funding

- Opportunities for summer funding

- Opportunities to gain extra teaching experience

- Possibility of staying in school beyond the "normal" five years

 

Also important to varying degrees and very personal: 

- Funding 

- Location

 

 

PS: I would not put too much weight on what's trendy now when making a decision. Things could change drastically by the time you are on the job market 5-6 years from now. Choose according to what you think you want to do now, that also allows you reasonable growth options if that changes.

Edited February 26, 2014 by fuzzylogician

[longforit]

Yes that's exactly what I'm feeling, I'm hoping and I'm doing. I'm asking suggestions from my current professors, but unfortunately I don't have many profs in my program in the filed I'm working on. I guess for those who have connections in other schools, they might also seek advices from them. And here on the forum we have some already-attending grads who have experienced all these and might provide some useful comments on it.  

I'm also asking the students in one program for the attitude towards cross-institute collaboration in that program, cause I really want to have the possibility to work with the professor(s) in another program if I don't attend to it (both are good fit to my interests but with slightly different emphases). And I'm also asking for general suggestions on the trend in the job market--like if interdisciplinary training/neurolinguistics/cognitive-science-wise studies are becoming more popular in recent years.

[beccamayworth]

Thanks so much for all the input you guys! This is great!

 

Ugh...

My biggest fear is that the program I think I WANT the most might not be the best decision career-wise.  

Edited February 26, 2014 by beccamayworth

[longforit]

 

 

PS: I would not put too much weight on what's trendy now when making a decision. Things could change drastically by the time you are on the job market 5-6 years from now. Choose according to what you think you want to do now, that also allows you reasonable growth options if that changes.

 

That's quite true. But I'm attracted exactly to the neuro-ling and interdisciplinary work in another program against my top choice. I know maybe reputation-wise, career-wise, finance-wise, and even academics-in-general-wise, my top choice would be better than the other. I guess I'm just wondering if the other one has the potential to train me into a more welcomed job candidate (I hope I chose the wording right). But you're right the trend can change in another 5 years...

[umniah2013]

Fuzzy brought up some really valid points that can help in deciding. Most of the programs I chose are totally different from each other in terms of research facilities, collaboration opportunities,..etc, that's why I'm not struggling as much ..except may be for the location/ living expenses. I'm waiting to hear from one school and I doubt the result will change my mind any way. I now realize how lucky I am to have chosen few schools. 

 

You have to think carefully of how long 5 years would be if you chose only based on the job prospects. It's important to consider all aspects of the school and how comfortable you'd be during the time of your studies. I think as long as all the schools you're trying to decide on have good reputation in the field, then, I wouldn't worry much about the job prospects. 

[fuzzylogician]

Thanks so much for all the input you guys! This is great!

 

Ugh...

My biggest fear is that the program I think I WANT the most might not be the best decision career-wise.  

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this "program I want" vs. "program that is better career-wise." I am betting that we're not talking about absolutes here, e.g. program with great placement record but a horrible working environment vs. program with great working environment but no one gets a job when they graduate. Assuming it's somewhere in between, I would tend to choose the school where I feel more comfortable. Even if you are participating in a program that is great on paper, you won't be able to make the most of it if you are unhappy. Unhappy students are unproductive students (and people) who can't take advantage of the opportunities that are available. On the other hand, if we are talking about two schools that you feel reasonably similar about (though one is slightly better than the other) but one has a much better track record with its alums, I think that would sway the decision in the other direction. The important factor is that you don't want to go to a place where you won't fit and will therefore be unhappy, unproductive, or otherwise won't be able to do the work you want to do. If you can't do good work, you will not enjoy the 5+ years you are in school and will also have a hard time getting a job later -- a lose-lose situation. If you're good, you'll get noticed even if you come from a lesser known school.

 

The one word of caution that I have is not to believe rumors or outside appearances of different departments. People have prejudices that (I've learned) aren't always true reflections of how the school actually is, or perhaps it was true way-back-when but it's not true now. This goes both ways - I was told about the really friendly school, which was as far as I could tell no friendlier than other places; and on the other hand, I was warned about the school with the mean competitive people, which turned out to be very friendly and not mean at all (I think). So, meet with people, talk to them in person, and decide for yourself what your opinion is about each of the options you are considering. 

[beccamayworth]

Hi Fuzzy, you're right, I'm not talking about absolutes here... I am considering 3 programs in the moment (waiting to hear from 2) and they are all places where I believe I'd be quite happy at. And I completely agree about visiting: it has had a huuuge impact on my view of certain programs.

 

Since I am still waiting to hear from 2 places and I'm still going to visit at least one more school, I know I will only be able to make an informed decision after all of this... So maybe I should just be patient. 

[gubidal092]

In general, if you are caught between two programs, look at how much support there is for students like you in your department. If there is only one professor with your interests, how likely is it that they'll be there for the whole time you are (if you're in for a PhD starting from an undergrad, that could be well over 5 years)? How many graduate students at the university share your particular interests? If you are the only one, then its likely you'll be lost among all the other students. Opportunities that would be perfect for you might not be announced the same way that they would be if there are 10 students with your interests. More competition that way, but you'll also be more catered to.

 

Also, just in case you aren't guaranteed funding in your program, I wouldn't choose the program with only one professor who shares your interests: I had a friend who went into one program specifically to work with a certain professor, and wound up not being able to deal with the high stress level of working with that particular professor. Also, that one professor cannot offer you as many opportunities (generally speaking) as several professors can, just by the fact that more professors researching = more opportunities to work for them/ take classes under them/ etc. 

[beccamayworth]

Thanks gubidal! You made a lot of good points I hadn't really thought of before... 

[LinguisticMystic]

Just declined an offer and it feels terrible! Even though I really didn't think it was a wonderful fit. At least I'm one step closer towards making a final decision... two more visits to go.

[beccamayworth]

Just declined an offer and it feels terrible! Even though I really didn't think it was a wonderful fit. At least I'm one step closer towards making a final decision... two more visits to go.

 

 good luck!!! I'm on my way to my final visit tomorrow... here's hoping it will bring clarity!

[onzeheures30]

OK, so I've made my final decision, I am going to NYU. All things considered, I think it was a fairly easy one. I probably knew from the very start they were the best fit for me, and their Open House confirmed my resolve.

 

The reasons that shaped my decision are as follows:

(1) they have several people I could work with on different aspects of my core interests;

(2) they have one specific person I know I am an absolutely perfect fit with (although he's a part-time professor, but he's super available and helpful);

(3) I will have lots of opportunities to explore my secondary interests;

(4) their current grad students (4th and 5th year, in particular) seem very knowledgeable and determined;

(5) all of their current grad students seem happy;

(6) they have a consortium with other unis, so if I find I'm lacking smth at the home dept, I'll be able to get it somewhere else;

(7) I have talked to non-NYU ppl from the field, and they all think NYU is an excellent place for me;

(8) they offer a good financial package (their flexibility about teaching is particularly appealing);

(9) I fell in love with NYC;

(10) closer to the end of my stay in NYC, when discussing NYU with my Russian-speaking friends I started saying something like 'у нас в NYU' (at us.GEN at NYU; 'at ours at NYU') instead of 'у них в NYU' (at them.GEN at NYU; 'at theirs at NYU'); I took it as a telling sign of where my heart was.

[longforit]

I envy you that you could have everything you want in one school!

 

Anyway, congratulations for finding such an ideal place!!! NYU has a truly great program and the city is exciting!

 

Also, can I ask if you have been to Stony Brook's open house earlier this week by any chance? If did, can I PM you for some questions? Thanks!

[onzeheures30]

I envy you that you could have everything you want in one school!

 

Anyway, congratulations for finding such an ideal place!!! NYU has a truly great program and the city is exciting!

 

Also, can I ask if you have been to Stony Brook's open house earlier this week by any chance? If did, can I PM you for some questions? Thanks!

 

Hi! No, I wasn't there. I left one day before it. I knew as soon as I had my other offers that I wouldn't be attending SBU, and they knew it too. (But feel free to PM me anyways about whatever =))

[longforit]

Thanks Onze! I guess I'm just curious about how someone not from the department or the university perceives the the campus and Long Island. I've heard both quite good and negative things about it. I believe the department itself is pretty good, but not sure if finance would be a problem for the program (doing research as well as recruiting students) and for students to live in Long Island.. (But since you didn't go, you're probably not clear either (?)  )

[beccamayworth]

Alright, I've made my decision! I'll be joining USC in the Fall! Extremely happy about it.         

[umniah2013]

It must have been a really hard decision saying "no" to Maryland. 

 

Wishing you all the best  at USC!

[longforit]

I echo the last post (It's MARYLAND!   )

 

But USC is great program too. I'm sure you'll enjoy it!

[beccamayworth]

thanks so much you guys!