A problem with April the 15th

[Smokydog]

Hi! Perhaps someone can help me with this issue I see coming up. I have been lucky enough to get some offers from very good Ph.D. programmes in the US (like Chicago and Brown). They all come with funding! The thing is that I have also applied to Oxford and Cambridge. I have already been admitted to Cambridge and I am still waiting to hear from Oxford. However, these two latter universities let you know about funding way after the April the 15th deadline, which is a bummer.

 

I cannot do a Ph.D. without funding. So, what happens if I choose to accept an offer from a programme in the US and then I end up hearing back from Cambridge or Oxford? I would like to have the opportunity to choose freely, but I don't know if I would already be bound by my decision to attend my chosen university in the US.  I would very much appreciate any advice on how to proceed if it comes to this situation. Does someone has some experience with this? Thank you in advance!

Edited March 3, 2014 by Smokydog

[iphi]

Hi! Perhaps someone can help me with this issue I see coming up. I have been lucky enough to get some offers from very good Ph.D. programmes in the US (Chicago, Brown, USC and UCLA). They all come with funding! The thing is that I have also applied to Oxford and Cambridge. I have already been admitted to Cambridge and I am still waiting to hear from Oxford. However, these two latter universities let you know about funding way after the April the 15th deadline, which is a bummer.

 

I cannot do a Ph.D. without funding. So, what happens if I choose to accept an offer from a programme in the US and then I end up hearing back from Cambridge or Oxford? I would like to have the opportunity to choose freely, but I don't know if I would already be bound by my decision to attend my chosen university in the US.  I would very much appreciate any advice on how to proceed if it comes to this situation. Does someone has some experience with this? Thank you in advance!

 

What I suggest is that you pay the deposit for your top-choice U.S. program. The one you would be happy to attend if you were rejected from Oxbridge. Then if you are accepted with funding to a UK institution and change your mind, so be it. Not exactly ethical, but it doesn't really seem like you have another choice.

[Smokydog]

Thank you for your advice, Iphi. I was afraid it could come to this. I wish there was a friendlier way to do this, though. I suppose that being outright sincere with my chosen uni in the US won't help at all, right?

[Crucial BBQ]

Thank you for your advice, Iphi. I was afraid it could come to this. I wish there was a friendlier way to do this, though. I suppose that being outright sincere with my chosen uni in the US won't help at all, right?

Nope. As I am sure you are aware, there are people wanting in line for you to make your decisions. For every seat you give up there is at least one person waiting to sit down.  In the end, it really does not matter to the program if it is you, or him, or her. 

[Smokydog]

Yep, you are right. Well, I will try to rush things up in England and see where that leads me.

[RomulusAugustulus]

The real problem is that most schools lose any funding that isn't claimed by April 15th. So if you accept a US PhD with funding, then decide after April 15 to withdraw to go to the UK, there is a very good chance the school can't give that money to another student (so no, there won't be someone to fill your place).

Also, from what I understand of UK schools, they don't tend to offer funding until you've accepted their offer. So even if you get into Oxford, you would likely have to accept before you knew if you would get any money, and I imagine the same is true of your Cambridge offer. UK funding is also extremely tight for international students (I am assuming you are American?). 

UK and US PhDs are also quite different. Are you more interested in Oxbridge because it'll be a shorter time commitment? Or is it just to be abroad (which I totally get so don't take that as a insult)? I would consider very carefully why you are more interested in the UK schools (as you seem to be) and see whether the funding risk is worth it. You might also try to contact someone at Cambridge to see how likely it is you will receive funding if you accepted their offer, and what that funding would look like. But I would urge you not to accept a US offer and withdraw after April 15, it isn't fair to the department or the other applicants on the waitlist. 

Good luck making your decision! It's a tricky spot to be in.

[RomulusAugustulus]

Oh also, just as a disclaimer: what I said above about schools losing funding after April 15 might not be true in science fields where students are funded from a professor's grant. But in humanities, this tends to be the case. It's why you read on here about schools pressuring admits to make decisions before April 15!

[Smokydog]

The real problem is that most schools lose any funding that isn't claimed by April 15th. So if you accept a US PhD with funding, then decide after April 15 to withdraw to go to the UK, there is a very good chance the school can't give that money to another student (so no, there won't be someone to fill your place).

Also, from what I understand of UK schools, they don't tend to offer funding until you've accepted their offer. So even if you get into Oxford, you would likely have to accept before you knew if you would get any money, and I imagine the same is true of your Cambridge offer. UK funding is also extremely tight for international students (I am assuming you are American?). 

UK and US PhDs are also quite different. Are you more interested in Oxbridge because it'll be a shorter time commitment? Or is it just to be abroad (which I totally get so don't take that as a insult)? I would consider very carefully why you are more interested in the UK schools (as you seem to be) and see whether the funding risk is worth it. You might also try to contact someone at Cambridge to see how likely it is you will receive funding if you accepted their offer, and what that funding would look like. But I would urge you not to accept a US offer and withdraw after April 15, it isn't fair to the department or the other applicants on the waitlist. 

Good luck making your decision! It's a tricky spot to be in.

 

Hi RomulusAugustus,

 

Actually, I am originally from Latin America, though I am presently living in Spain. I applied to many places in the US and the UK because I was alright with both paths. If I must be sincere, I wasn't aware that the decision times in the USA and the UK were so different. As a matter of fact, Cambridge is giving me until July 31st in order to receive an answer to their offer. They do this having in mind I am waiting for funding to come in, since I have got to go through their financial clearance and its better to do it with a scholarship in hand (they make sure you already have the money for the three years). Having in mind what you say, I will definitively try to get an answer from Cambridge at least. I don't think it would be fair otherwise. Thank you for your insights!

Edited March 3, 2014 by Smokydog

[RomulusAugustulus]

Ah, well in that case I would definitely ask Cambridge if it is possible to get funding info expedited. They are probably more likely to try to get you funding info early than a US school is to give you an extension. You could ask at the US schools for an extension, but because of the financial situation I stated above, it is unlikely they will give you past the infamous April 15 deadline. But as I said, it may not be true at every school that they would lose the funding after April 15, so you could ask.

I applied to UK and US programs this year as well, and also wasn't aware how different the timelines would be, so I completely sympathize. Hope everything works out!

[TakeruK]

I don't think it's necessarily unethical to back out of an offer after April 15 if you get a funded offer from the UK. I think this would be the most ethical and least damaging way to go:

 

1. As others suggested, ask the UK schools if they can do anything about their timeline since the US schools want a decision by April 15.

2. Decide on which US school you prefer the most as soon as possible.

3. Ask your top choice if they will hold their offer beyond April 15.

4a. If they said yes, then this is great, decline all your other US offers and wait for the UK schools to get back to you. You're done!

4b. If they said no, then you should go down your US schools list and ask them all the same questions, one by one.

5. Out of the schools that said yes, do you want to go to any of them? If so, then do step 4a.

6. If you are certain you prefer one of the schools that said no instead, then you should tell them that you want to take their offer, but caution them that you will change your mind if one of the UK schools gives you a good funded offer after April 15. 

7. If this school revokes their offer (they probably will not), then move onto the next school.

8. Decline all your other US schools once you have accepted a US school's offer.

 

In my opinion, if you inform your US school of your intention, then you have fulfilled your ethical obligations. It's not your fault that the UK and US systems are not lined up. It's completely up to the US school to decide if they want to risk losing a spot completely (by allowing you to accept) or if they would rather play it safe and revoke your offer to take someone else they 100% know will take your spot. It's best if you do this before April 15 too, so that you can decline your other US schools and open up spots for others.

 

I don't think that if you want to go to a UK school, that you should have to turn down the US schools and risk not getting funding. 

 

Also, at many programs (e.g. my program), there are no waitlists or "taking someone's spot". We admit N students per year in exactly one round of admittance and how ever many decide to take the offer is how many we get in the next class. N is usually between 4-10. There are some years where 0 to 1 people have decided to take the offer while others 7+ people take the offer. I think what happens when you drop out of a program depends on each program, so informing them of your decision ahead of time might affect how other students are affected, or it might not (but if you don't inform them then definitely nothing good will happen).

 

Finally, I also think it is totally ethical to back out of an admission offer after April 15. It's not always the best career move and you might burn some bridges or hurt some feelings if you do it poorly, but it is not morally wrong to change your mind about a graduate school after making a decision. There are plenty of reasons to change your mind e.g. in the summer, for example: 1) student completely changes their mind about graduate school at all and "quits" before it starts, 2) family crisis happens and the student must take an offer closer to home, 3) student's SO gets a last minute offer from somewhere and the student chooses another school in that area to be able to live with their SO, 4) sometimes people just change and decide that another place is better for them. In all of these cases and other unmentioned cases, it is not unethical nor morally wrong to back out of an acceptance. For Cases 2-4 mentioned above, it will also require an alternate school allowing the student to take a spot way after April 15 but some schools hold admissions open for 1-2 years (funding may not be guaranteed). When you accept a school's offer, you are not signing a contract that legally and morally binds you to that school. Instead, you are saying that, to the best of your current knowledge, you intend to attend this school. This is true because you have no idea what the UK schools will say. For any student, you are allowed to change your mind and quit school at any time, even before school starts. You will have to face financial (deposits and/or repayment of any financial support) and career consequences for your actions but that's it. The only thing I would think is morally wrong is purposely being deceitful and/or lying to your schools when you make your decisions (e.g. accepting more than one offer at a time, asking multiple schools for extensions even though you have the information to pick one and decline the rest etc.)

Edited March 4, 2014 by TakeruK

[Smokydog]

Takeruk, I am really, really thankful for your post. It is really well thought and thorough advice. I believe this is the best way to go, having in mind my options. I very much appreciate your help! Yours too, Romulus Augustus. Best,

[blue_mango]

Hi Smokeydog,

 

Not sure if you've made a decision yet, but I just wanted to tell you that I was in the exact same boat recently. I had an offer from a top US school with incredible funding and offers from Oxbridge with the potential for funding. I'm also an international student, and I also would absolutely not have been able to attend without funding. I chose the US. And I am so very happy I did! Oxbridge was attractive because it would have been much shorter, but in terms of reputation and academic rigor, I don't know that Oxbridge's really any better than top US schools.

 

I've had a good experience of grad school and grad life, and I have to say, a big part of it is because of the funding (and location! -- weather and such), so I think those are big things to consider (along with what students in your potential programs say about the departments' cultures). So, I chose great guaranteed funding over the potential to get funding (which also translates to the potential to not get funding). I totally get what others here mean when they say you can accept the US offer without being legally bound or anything, and then bail on them if Oxbridge works out. I have to say though, that I think it'd be most unfortunate if you accepted a place knowing you might bail, and then bail, only because that means there will be someone out there who could have gotten that spot who won't, and especially given it's a funded spot at a top school, that'd just be most most unfortunate.

 

Good luck! and feel free to PM me if you want to talk more.