Looking for Insight on Wait Lists

[back2black]

SO... I'm currently on two PhD wait lists (for schools that I would LOVE to attend) and was wondering if anyone has any insight into how wait lists work. I'm sure all schools are different in terms of whether or not wait lists are grouped by specialization or ranked numerically, but I'm more so concerned with what the odds are of a "wait list" turning into an acceptance.

 

One school said I'm on a selective wait list and the other school said I'm a finalist on a select wait list for admission. I wonder how many others they send these messages to and if I should be optimistic. I'm a realist who borders on pessimism, but is a "select" wait list something to be excited about or something that might have a good chance to turn into an acceptance.

 

Thanks!

[PopolVuh]

It depends greatly on the kinds of departments you've applied to. At the very tip-top places--Penn, Harvard, Princeton, etc--just one (or perhaps no) wait-listed candidates will, in the end, be admitted. At the great majority of schools, though, this isn't at all the case. 

 

At most schools, it's usual to over-admit at the outset. So, if the department wants an incoming cohort of five, they'll probably take, oh, seven, assuming that two of the admitted candidates will decline. How deep the wait-list goes is more difficult to say. A department may wait-list twice the number of students it admits. It may wait-list three times as many. A number of those on the wait list, after all, will take other offers. 

 

When you hear will probably also depend on the putative quality/actual prestige of the departments. Wait-list admissions work--God, forgive me--by trickle down. So. The young woman who's got offers from Michigan, NYU, Cornell, Hopkins, and Brown will have, of course, to say no to four of those schools. When she e-mails the Cornell DGS to say she's going elsewhere, the young man who was admitted to Madison, Ohio State, and Emory, but was wait-listed at Cornell, gets the good news from Ithaca, and on it goes. 

 

The "select" language in the correspondence you've received is reassuring. I would guess--and that's all this is--it means you're in the upper half of the wait-list. 

[ArthChauc]

This post was super helpful--logically, I knew this was how waitlists work, but I think when you think about your own circumstances it's always a bit more fuzzy feeling. At least, that's how I feel. I'm waitlisted at my top school (New Mexico) and I'm one of two people on the waitlist for my speciality. I've been told by the DGS that it seems "quite hopeful" that I am eventually admitted. Still. Ugh. Life. 

[hashslinger]

I was waitlisted three times--at UConn, Minnesota, and Tufts. UConn was the only waitlist that actually turned into an acceptance (which I declined). My Tufts waitlist letter seemed especially sanguine, assuring me that I was "very high" or some such. So I was surprised that it never morphed into an acceptance.

 

FWIW, I've known a lot of people who were waitlisted at Stanford and never made it in. I knew someone who was #2 on the waitlist and no dice. I have a feeling that a school like Stanford is not going to go through its waitlist (I would turn down Harvard and Yale every time for the weather at Stanford alone).

[despejado]

Any insight on funding wait lists? Essentially the same thing?

[hashslinger]

Any insight on funding wait lists? Essentially the same thing?

 

Hold out as long as you can. Most people I know who were on the waitlist for funding (at places like Berkeley and CUNY, where funding used to be a little dicier) eventually got their funding. Sometimes it takes until after April 15, though. So, don't commit until you have funding.

 

And yeah, the process does actually keep going after April 15.

[despejado]

Hold out as long as you can. Most people I know who were on the waitlist for funding (at places like Berkeley and CUNY, where funding used to be a little dicier) eventually got their funding. Sometimes it takes until after April 15, though. So, don't commit until you have funding.

And yeah, the process does actually keep going after April 15.

Wait, so if I have two acceptances going into April 15, hypothetically, and SU still hasn't come through with funding but hasn't denied it either, do I hold out or take the other offer, assuming it's funded? This is weird/stressful

[viviandarkbloom]

So here's a wait list dilemma - I was told by one of the places at which I am wait listed (NYU) that last year they only took two people from the wait list, and in both cases the offer came after april 15th. Which baffled me somewhat. Does this mean that only someone who had no offers elsewhere could accept the place? In my case this is quite a big deal because, although I have a couple of good offers further afield from programs that I like just as much as NYU, my long-term partner is based in NYC - so the ability to live together would be the overriding factor. What would happen if I accepted an offer and was then offered a place at NYU after the deadline? What - hypothetically - are the ethics of going back on an acceptance for purely personal rather than academic reasons?

[hashslinger]

Wait, so if I have two acceptances going into April 15, hypothetically, and SU still hasn't come through with funding but hasn't denied it either, do I hold out or take the other offer, assuming it's funded? This is weird/stressful

I personally would not accept an offer that wasn't funded. I consider an unfunded offer (especially at a department where other students are funded) not an offer at all.

 

And other people should feel free to chime in and disagree with this, but sometimes decisions do trickle down post-April 15. I once got into a program in late May. Just because you accepted an offer at another program on April 15, it doesn't mean you're married to it. None of these agreements are binding. People pull out of grad programs all the time. It's not something you should aspire to do, but if Syracuse comes through with a great funding offer post April 15, and you've already committed to another program, you can always pull out of the other program and commit to Syracuse instead.

 

Of course, it might be the case that if you don't commit to Syracuse by April 15th then they'll just turn around and offer your unfunded spot to someone else. You might want to make it clear to them that you're not committing to their program until they give you a funded offer, but that if they offer funding, even after April 15, you're game. If they still can't come up with funding and then give your spot to someone else, oh well. For me, not having funding would be a deal-breaker.

Edited March 5, 2014 by hashslinger

[despejado]

Oh no, I'm not planning on accepting anything without funding. Realistically, the only offer I have right now is the one from SU where I'm WLed for funding; however, I'm anticipating what would happen if I were to end up with a fully-funded offer from another of the schools I'm waiting to hear from. I've seen people on the forums talk about de-committing from an acceptance, and the general consensus seems to be that it's bad form, but you if you have to... I don't know. I'm just hoping SU comes up with funding before April 15; they're my first choice, so there wouldn't be any discrepancies there. And realistically, they're my ONLY choice as of right now. I guess I'm getting ahead of myself, but it is good to play out the scenarios just in case. Fingers crossed is all I can do at this point; I've already informed the DGS that they're the only school I'm currently considering and I will be accepting the TA position if it becomes available. Hopefully that helps me.

Edited March 5, 2014 by despejado

[hashslinger]

Yeah, pulling out of a program is not an ideal thing, but I really don't think it's as terrible as it might seem to us. These things happen. I really don't think that most DGS or adcom people would remember anyway. We tend to think our own actions as being really memorable (because they are to us) but you have to remember that these people field tons of applications, year after year after year. I'm sure they've seen it all.

 

Good luck. I hope this Syracuse thing works out for you.

Edited March 5, 2014 by hashslinger

[despejado]

Yeah, pulling out of a program is not an ideal thing, but I really don't think it's as terrible as it might seem to us. These things happen. I really don't think that most DGS or adcom people would remember anyway. We tend to think our own actions as being really memorable (because they are to us) but you have to remember that these people field tons of applications, year after year after year. I'm sure they've seen it all.

 

Good luck. I hope this Syracuse thing works out for you.

 

Thank you so much! I sincerely appreciate you taking the time out to walk me through this, and thanks so much for the positive vibes

[PopolVuh]

Yeah, pulling out of a program is not an ideal thing, but I really don't think it's as terrible as it might seem to us. These things happen. I really don't think that most DGS or adcom people would remember anyway. We tend to think our own actions as being really memorable (because they are to us) but you have to remember that these people field tons of applications, year after year after year. I'm sure they've seen it all.

 

Good luck. I hope this Syracuse thing works out for you.

 

This is deeply unprofessional and discourteous. When you commit to a program, you do so with the understanding that you'll decline all other offers and remove yourself from any wait-lists. If it's April 8, and you have yet to hear from the department that's wait-listed you, you should e-mail the DGS at your second-choice school--the place that has in fact said yes--explain your situation and ask for an extension.  

 

If you commit to one school, are--having dealt in bad faith--admitted to another from the wait-list, and accept that second offer, you've put that first (and the students who genuinely want to enroll there) in a terrible position. That department may already have released the those on its wait-list (your peers and future colleagues). The student who would have had your spot may have accepted an offer from a school she was less eager to attend, etc. 

[despejado]

This is deeply unprofessional and discourteous. When you commit to a program, you do so with the understanding that you'll decline all other offers and remove yourself from any wait-lists. If it's April 8, and you have yet to hear from the department that's wait-listed you, you should e-mail the DGS at your second-choice school--the place that has in fact said yes--explain your situation and ask for an extension.  

 

If you commit to one school, are--having dealt in bad faith--admitted to another from the wait-list, and accept that second offer, you've put that first (and the students who genuinely want to enroll there) in a terrible position. That department may already have released the those on its wait-list (your peers and future colleagues). The student who would have had your spot may have accepted an offer from a school she was less eager to attend, etc. 

 

This makes sense as well... If the situation arises where I have a funded offer from another school, but am still waiting on funding from Syracuse, I assume I will have to speak with my advisers as well as the departments of both schools to figure out what works best for me. I don't plan on pulling out of any acceptances or contracts or anything like that.

Edited March 6, 2014 by despejado

[Horb]

I've always heard that if you accept but then want to decline for another program (Say you got into UMass Amherst but then got into Harvard off a waitlist) that unless you are prepared to burn all bridges with that other program, do not do it. That being said, if you get into Harvard, it would very much be worth it to go there. I think on some level, DGS understand that we have to do what is best for ourselves. 

[hashslinger]

This is deeply unprofessional and discourteous. When you commit to a program, you do so with the understanding that you'll decline all other offers and remove yourself from any wait-lists. If it's April 8, and you have yet to hear from the department that's wait-listed you, you should e-mail the DGS at your second-choice school--the place that has in fact said yes--explain your situation and ask for an extension.  

 

If you commit to one school, are--having dealt in bad faith--admitted to another from the wait-list, and accept that second offer, you've put that first (and the students who genuinely want to enroll there) in a terrible position. That department may already have released the those on its wait-list (your peers and future colleagues). The student who would have had your spot may have accepted an offer from a school she was less eager to attend, etc. 

You're definitely right.

 

I also want to say that my previous advice, re: accepting an offer while still holding out for funding at another program, was problematic at best. One should probably be transparent and upfront about one's dealings.

 

However, I've seen so much unprofessional behavior on the part of programs in the last few years (especially with regards to hiring, but also with admissions) that I don't think I'd lose sleep if I had to switch programs.

 

I've also seen a lot of waitlist stuff extend well into June. So I have to assume that there is a lot of post-April 15 jockeying going on. Rescinding an offer is definitely not a good thing to do ... but the job market right now is so crooked and such a bloodbath (and with just SO much shitty bad-faith behavior on the part of programs and universities) that I really do think that you have to do what's best for yourself rather than obeying the niceties of the field. I didn't feel this way before entering a program. I myself would have been extremely uncomfortable withdrawing from a program after I'd committed. I wouldn't be now. Now I wouldn't even blink. I would happily accept whatever offer was best for me and skip off into the sunset. 

[Horb]

I have a question that relates to the unfaithful nature: Both of my programs verbally confirmed 5.5/6 years of funding. In the letters, neither of them confirmed this. Should I be concerned? Their both reputable so I feel like I shouldn't be worried...