Oxford?

[2400]

I got into a MSc program at Oxford and would love to attend the DPhil at Oxford as well. I think I might have a better chance of getting into the DPhil from the MSc program. The only problem is that so far I have not been offered funding for the one year MSc. Do any of you have an opinion on taking on student loan debt for an Oxford degree? I would end up having to borrow around $30,000. I already have about $19,000 in debt from undergrad. Any advice?

[math123]

It seems to me that you want to do the MSc because you think you can get a funded DPhil place after. If so, that's the wrong way to go about it. Remember, funding is never a guarantee. Unless your department offers studentships which would cover ALL your expenses as an overseas student, will you be any better off in a year's time than you are right now as an MSc applicant?

[2400]

I want to attend Oxford for two reasons -- one being that I would like to get into the DPhil. But, I know funding is not guaranteed. I should have added in my original post that I have also been accepted to two ivy league schools in the US. One offered me funding.

I have also considered doing a masters in the US and applying to a range of doctoral programs next year. And hopefully receiving funding.

[math123]

You aren't really being free with the details, but surely a (funded!) Ivy master's will be better. You can always apply to the DPhil next year along with other schools in the US. But, hey, it's a personal choice.

[threedaystar]

Off topic - but can I ask in which gathering you applied ? II or III? I am still waiting on III and I am wondering when letters will be sent out...

Also - I know overseas students have a lot of problems getting enough funding for the DPhil. You might get some aid from your college and such...but not enough to totally offset the cost of the DPhil. It sucks that the UK hardly funds PHd students like the US. I am also planning on doing an MSc in the UK - and am willign to take out funding for this (about 25,000$). However, I know my PHd (if I go for one) has got to be funded. My opinion: do a one year Oxford program and then do your PHd where you can get funded. That way you have the Oxford experience, but also achieve your dream goal of having a PHd/DPhil.

[2400]

Threedaystar -- I applied in the second gathered field and received an acceptance around the middle of March. I was notified about my college placement about two weeks ago. I just found out I did not qualify for the Clarendon or Overseas Research awards, but it is still possible that I might receive a bursary from my department. I also didn't qualify for any scholarships from my college -- the one I may have qualified for had an application deadline about a month before I received my college placement.

I applied for a few outside scholarships, but won't hear back about those for a couple of months. Frustrating!

[swr22]

I am obliged to point out that Cambridge is better :wink:

now that I have that out of the way. In general, I would say that an undergraduate education is better at Oxbridge and a graduate education is better in the States (a PhD is better than a DPhil/MPhil). Oxbridge would be an awesome place to be on faculty, though, too.

[plisar]

I would seriously take the funding from one of your two ivies.

[2400]

SWR22 -- Why do you think that a US PhD is better than a DPhil? I'm just curious about your thoughts on this.

[Tobson]

don't get crazy folks, eduaction is what you make out of it. I'd personally go for the funded offers - gives you the stability you need for a fruitfull research and in the end it comes down how good and many publications you have published.

[Dubya]

I am obliged to point out that Cambridge is better :wink:

now that I have that out of the way. In general, I would say that an undergraduate education is better at Oxbridge and a graduate education is better in the States (a PhD is better than a DPhil/MPhil). Oxbridge would be an awesome place to be on faculty, though, too.

You're a wise person swr22...at least with regard to Cambridge being the far superior institution.

To the OP: Always follow the money. I am currently finishing my MPhil at Cambridge and it has been one of the best experiences of my life, but long term funding is simply not available. Hence why I'm returning to the US for my PhD next year. So...if you do decide to go to Oxford you have to assume that you won't get any funding for your master's or DPhil...if you're okay with that then go for it.

[wheredowegonow]

It's not true that Cambridge is better than Oxford ... It really depends what you want to study; even within a specific discipline there are notable differences (i.e. take Philosophy: Cambridge is great for Wittgenstein and Oxford is amazing for Legal Philosophy/Jurisprudence).

For politics, ir and social sciences in general Oxford has a better reputation overall. On the other hand, natural sciences and maths Cambridge is ahead.

Plus, an Oxbridge education is something unique that you cannot live anywhere else in the world. You just have to visit sometime and find on your own whether it's for you.

[teaganc]

To the OP: Always follow the money. I am currently finishing my MPhil at Cambridge and it has been one of the best experiences of my life, but long term funding is simply not available. Hence why I'm returning to the US for my PhD next year. So...if you do decide to go to Oxford you have to assume that you won't get any funding for your master's or DPhil...if you're okay with that then go for it.

This is the credited answer.

[swr22]

SWR22 -- Why do you think that a US PhD is better than a DPhil? I'm just curious about your thoughts on this.

More formal training (methods are not taken as seriously there), more worldwide placement possibilities (unless you are sure that you want to stay in the UK), longer programs tend to have more weight given them etc

[swr22]

It's not true that Cambridge is better than Oxford ... It really depends what you want to study; even within a specific discipline there are notable differences (i.e. take Philosophy: Cambridge is great for Wittgenstein and Oxford is amazing for Legal Philosophy/Jurisprudence).

For politics, ir and social sciences in general Oxford has a better reputation overall. On the other hand, natural sciences and maths Cambridge is ahead.

Plus, an Oxbridge education is something unique that you cannot live anywhere else in the world. You just have to visit sometime and find on your own whether it's for you.

For the record, I was being tongue-in-cheek...

It isn't quite as simple as saying that 'Oxford has a better reputation for IR and social sciences' because the faculties don't neatly align. Oxford's Politics Philosophy & Economics (PPE) course has been slightly more rigorous and less 'squishy' than Cambridge's Social and Political Sciences (now merged in a new faculty with IR). Cambridge's dedicated IR faculty is new but draws really great faculty previously associated with other departments. Cambridge has always, for example, been strong on International Law (Professor Hopkins at Downing etc) and historians like Peterhouse's Brendan Simms is both a public intellectual and a normal working academic on everything from the history of Empire, the contemporary Balkans etc.

Cambridge has also (historically and generally) been better in the standalone departments of Economics and Philosophy, as well as in subjects like sociology, social anthropology, social psychology, architecture, history of art etc. The simple Cambridge=Sciences and Oxford=arts and humanities is slightly rebarbative.

It really depends on the intricacies and faculty-links with your topic of interest, although an education at either is a really treat (albeit not primed to help as much as the US with future job opportunities).

[Dubya]

For the record, I was being tongue-in-cheek...

As was I

[swr22]

As was I

Although Cambridge is still better!

[Dubya]

Indubitably

[canuckle]

So, who having applied to Oxford and been accepted, has heard back from colleges? I applied into the Jan 23 stream, and was accepted, but haven't heard any word yet.

Its pretty hard to make much of a decision without knowing anything about funding there (which from my understanding comes mostly from the colleges--please feel free to set me straight if I'm wrong about that...)

[Dubya]

So, who having applied to Oxford and been accepted, has heard back from colleges? I applied into the Jan 23 stream, and was accepted, but haven't heard any word yet.

Its pretty hard to make much of a decision without knowing anything about funding there (which from my understanding comes mostly from the colleges--please feel free to set me straight if I'm wrong about that...)

It really depends on the college. I can't speak for Oxford, but at Cam funding generally comes from outside sources or the university. Even wealthy colleges like Trinity don't fund *that* many students...at least not significantly. Also, at Cambridge I believe you're assigned a college after you accept an offer from the university...but don't hold me to that...I forget exactly how it all went down. Either way, good luck!

[math123]

With the Clarendon competition over, your sources of funding are even more severely limited as an overseas student. A College may have a special studentship/scholarship which you can apply for (if the deadlines have yet to pass!), but you should not be expecting for them to throw money at you. It doesn't work like that. If this is a one year course, you may want to start thinking about whether it's a good idea to bite the bullet and self-fund.

Also, at Cambridge I believe you're assigned a college after you accept an offer from the university...but don't hold me to that...I forget exactly how it all went down. Either way, good luck!

Hasn't been that long has it? ;-) Once the offer has been made.