Princeton vs Harvard

[MathildeB]

Hi everyone,

 

I got offered admission from both Ph.D. programs (I am focusing on early modern art). I was ecstatic when I learned the good news, but now I am starting to realize how hard it is going to be to make a decision. I will have visited both departments by the end of this week (I had to fly from Europe) but I was wondering if any of you could share their insight about any of the programs (or both) to perhaps help me make a decision...

 

Thank you so much in advance!!

[condivi]

I don't think you could wrong either way--I know people in both departments, and they seem generally pretty happy. I assume you're not doing Italian painting, because neither has an Italian Renaissance specialist on the faculty at the moment (though I also understand Harvard is about to hire an early modern Spanish specialist). If you're doing non-Italian European, I've heard that Christopher Heuer at Princeton did not get tenure, so he will be leaving--something to keep in mind. The other early modernists at Harvard and Princeton all have very different approaches and personalities, so I think it depends on how you get along with them, what you think of the department's culture, and of course the surrounding town. Talk to the grad students, and talk to as many as you can, because there's always one sour (or for that matter overly enthusiastic one) in the bunch. Congrats and good luck!

[curiositykilledthecat]

Hi everyone,

 

I got offered admission from both Ph.D. programs (I am focusing on early modern art). I was ecstatic when I learned the good news, but now I am starting to realize how hard it is going to be to make a decision. I will have visited both departments by the end of this week (I had to fly from Europe) but I was wondering if any of you could share their insight about any of the programs (or both) to perhaps help me make a decision...

 

Thank you so much in advance!!

They're both okay.

[highpriestess]

Hi everyone,

 

I got offered admission from both Ph.D. programs (I am focusing on early modern art). I was ecstatic when I learned the good news, but now I am starting to realize how hard it is going to be to make a decision. I will have visited both departments by the end of this week (I had to fly from Europe) but I was wondering if any of you could share their insight about any of the programs (or both) to perhaps help me make a decision...

 

Thank you so much in advance!!

 

Idk I mean I think the brand name school thing is over.  go to u of phoenix and save your money. 

[ChurchLover]

what a quandary..

[chamomile]

Congratulations--that is an exciting choice. They are obviously both great programs reputation-wise, so consider the adviser fit and financial packages. Google your potential adviser's students of the past 5-10 years (a good start is to search his/her name through ProQuest Dissertations under the "adviser" tab). Do they have jobs? Jobs that you would want? Look at their CVs- how well did they do with external fellowships? It's hard to know, before grad school, how much your adviser's clout in the field really matters with regards to these things. 

[Swagato]

Congratulations on finding yourself in a very good place, OP. My recommendation would be to visit both programs (of course), talk to current students both in and outside of your areas of interest. Talk to faculty in your areas and outside of it. Try to find out as much as you can about recent placement (if you are primarily interested in TT positions, or in museum curating, or both, etc.). Both obviously have strong alumni networks, so this is a major plus of which you shouldn't fail to make good use. 

 

P.S. Curious if you also applied to Yale.

[poliscar]

I would go to Harvard. Princeton has been really spotty recently in terms of hires/tenure outside of modern/contemporary art. They are hiring a new Early Modern scholar this year, but there have been a number of failed searches in the past in similar fields.

Moreover if http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/Art_History_2011-2012 is to be believed, the last faculty member to receive tenure in a pre-modern/early modern field was Patricia Fortini Brown in 1989. If Christopher Heuer was denied tenure, it merely reflects an ongoing pattern, and in my opinion, clear departmental disfunction. Heuer is a really fantastic scholar, and would have been tenured in almost any other department. 

 

The department also lost Nino Zchomelidse to Johns Hopkins this year. I don't know if she was denied tenure, or if she chose to leave the department for another reason, but I think that in either case her departure should raise warning flags. 

Realistically, unless you are very interested in a specific advisor at Princeton, I would avoid the department. Their track record with pre-modern/early modern junior faculty is not reassuring, and doesn't bode well for those who want to work in those areas. Harvard has excellent faculty, excellent resources, and doesn't betray any signs of the turbulence present at Princeton. 

[Hegel's Bagels]

Moreover if http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/Art_History_2011-2012 is to be believed, the last faculty member to receive tenure in a pre-modern/early modern field was Patricia Fortini Brown in 1989. If Christopher Heuer was denied tenure, it merely reflects an ongoing pattern, and in my opinion, clear departmental disfunction. Heuer is a really fantastic scholar, and would have been tenured in almost any other department. 

I can second this. I'm not a student at Princeton, but a friend in the department told me that both Heuer and Zchomelidse were denied tenure. This is not so much a result of a particularly dysfunctional department, but of a particularly dysfunctional relationship with the administration. In both cases the department recommended them for tenure, but they were denied by the Dean (President? or whoever makes that decision). It's a bleak time to be in the humanities...

[poliscar]

I can second this. I'm not a student at Princeton, but a friend in the department told me that both Heuer and Zchomelidse were denied tenure. This is not so much a result of a particularly dysfunctional department, but of a particularly dysfunctional relationship with the administration. In both cases the department recommended them for tenure, but they were denied by the Dean (President? or whoever makes that decision). It's a bleak time to be in the humanities...

Ah this frustrates me so much. If it's coming from the institution as a whole I would worried about going to Princeton in general.