Is there ever a chance that you can get a good Advisor?

[psychdm]

Hi all, 

 

In the midst of grad school decisions flying in and out, I am getting deeper into some problems that I need some advise with...

 

I am currently working as a RA at a lab (but not as a grad student) and I am very discouraged by my future aspect of grad school. I originally took a job posting as a RA for a stepping stone to grad school but I guess it kind of backfired when I saw how ill-fitting my boss is overall with my personality/research interest. 

 

That being said, I know that there are personality, research interests, and myriad other things to worry about to find a "good" advisor. But I am just really disheartened because my boss said some terrible things to me (such as the fact that I am not suited to go to grad school) and his attitude just really discourages me academically and intellectually. I know professors/advisors are humans too and they just have some bad days and good days but I would just like to hear some instances where grad students were able to find a good advisor who truly cared about them and cared about their research interests. 

 

I guess some time off from my research interest and learning a new field + dealing with an uncooperative boss makes this situation more stressful. But I just need some examples of how people found a good advisor so I can apply this to myself as well. Now that I know what to look for in a professor to discern "ill-fitting" from the "good" I now need to know what signs I need to look for to know what kind of professor would truly support my research topic. 

 

Sorry if I was mumbling and complaining. I was accustomed to supportive professors in undergrad years and now I am really taken aback by how horrible and depressing the situation can be when you get a horribly unsupportive and discouraging professor. I can vent for days and days on how horrible my boss is overall but that won't do anything to me. I just need some little support so I can start getting my grad school plans moving on...because my plans just don't seem to move with all this negativity around me. 

 

 

[bsharpe269]

My advisor is amazing! He is extremely available to students, encourages us to do conferences and other resume boosters, offers constructive criticism, and goes out of his way to nominate us for fellowships. I have nothing at all negative to say about him.

I think when looking at grad programs, some good questions to ask are:

What is your mentor style... Weekly meetings, hands-off etc?

Do you expect students to be in the lab for a certain number of hours a week or can they work from home mostly?

Do you encourage students to come to you with questions?

Some of these questions might be better for a professors grad students than the professor himself. First year Rotations can also be useful in determining personality for before choosing a lab.

Don't be discouraged! Get experience there and then move on to something better!

[lewin]

Not to jump to conclusions because I clearly wasn't privy to the experiences you've had with your current advisor, but the one example you give ("such as the fact that I am not suited to go to grad school") is not necessarily the mark of a bad advisor. Some people aren't suited for grad school and it's a good advisor who is honest with his/her advisees about their chances. It's not necessarily a slight either; grad school is a hard slog with bad job prospects at the end of it.

 

All I mean is that it might be worth a bit of introspection or seeking a second opinion where you ask somebody to honestly evaluate your credentials and prospects.

 

Another thing I'm sensing is the search for an advisor who "truly cares" and "truly supports" you. A good advisor is someone with whom you can have a mutually beneficial and productive relationship, not someone who will just support you. There's an element of that, of course, but it's a two-way street.  

 

More so, a pre-graduate-school RA job isn't necessarily one where you should expect your research interests to be supported. Your advisor might be thinking that he/she hired you to help do research. A good boss here will give you a good reference letter, not necessarily encourage whatever (possibly) idiosyncratic research interests you might have.

 

So, suggestion #2 is that it might not hurt to re-evaluate your expectations of what to get from an RA job or from an advisor.

[juilletmercredi]

I have an excellent advisor.

-He makes time to meet with me, and encourages a regular schedule of meeting.  We meet formally every two weeks but also communicate via email.

-He's flexible - we've met over Skype when I was away at conferences or visiting family, or when he had to be away.

-He's managed to balance allowing my independence while giving good guidance, and at different parts of my career.  He guided me much more in the beginning, but now that I am finishing up I do much more of the guiding of our relationship and he functions more like a support system.

-When I got burned out and discussed leaving the program, he remained calm and tried his best to help me deal psychologically.  He was a big factor in actually getting me to stay.

-He gives me really good feedback on my papers and drafts...although not always...prompt.  (However, I have adjusted for this and just try to leave some flexibility/extra time for him to look at my stuff.  Honestly, every advisor has flaws, and this is a tiny one in the large scheme of things.)

-He looks out for my career; he recommends experiences and postdocs and programs; he introduces me to people.  On the flip side, he allows me a lot of independence, and I have largely been able to choose what I want to work on, how much, and how intensely.

-He's just a genuinely nice person.  He encourages me to take time off, asks about my husband, and we chat for a little while about our personal frustrations.  He's had the lab over to his apartment for a party and comes out for drinks and dinner every now and then.  He even brought ice cream bars to lab meeting for my birthday once

Before I chose him to be my advisor we had a conversation that I used to gauge our working styles.  Part of what a good advisor is is consistent from student to student.  You need someone who will give you good feedback - both positive and critical when necessary.  You need someone who will read your drafts in more or less a timely manner.  You need someone who uses positive reinforcement more than any other technique of teaching.  Someone who knows how to strike a good balance between independence and guidance, and someone who is genuinely interested in your career and helping you become better.  You don't want someone who just needs an RA to be a grunt worker, who doesn't seem interested in you or your career, or who's going to micromanage your every move.  You don't need anyone who's never going to look at your work.  But you also don't want anyone who's always going be positive and never criticize you or push you to get better.  You need someone to tell you the hard stuff.

But some things are very personal.  I am highly independent; I like to manage my own time, and I don't want anyone else wanting me to account for hours or anything like that.  I think I would resent working for a professor who wanted that.  However, some people like being a little more managed.  I also don't want anyone telling me what projects to pick up; I can select my own projects, and mostly need someone to bounce ideas off or help me shape them a bit.  But some people prefer that their professors guide them to projects (at least in the beginning) or assign them something to work on.

You can find these things out - some of them - in a conversation.  I went to lunch with my advisor when I was admitted and we basically talked about working styles and his expectations and all that stuff, and it seemed that we were quite compatible both research-interest-wise and personality-wise.

 

*

 

I agree, though that there's nothing inherently terrible about telling someone they are not well-suited for graduate school.  Some people simply are not, and a GOOD advisor tells you when you aren't well-suited for a pursuit rather than let you do it and flounder/flail.  And although an advisor should be overall supportive, I also agree with the above that they are not supposed to be unconditionally supportive.  If you do bad work, or they think that you are going into a research area that will not get you a job, a GOOD mentor will tell you that so you can fix the problem.

 

You may want to check out this book: Getting Mentored in Graduate School.  It's geared towards helping grad students select good advisors/mentors.

[Dedi]

Julliet: I want to up-vote your post a couple hundred times. This is exactly what I'm looking for in an advisor! I hope I'm putting my faith into the right person...I know I should have multiple POIs, but the POI I'm going to work with (a week and a half to go!) has been supportive and understanding, timely on his feedback, and receptive to my research interests. However, it's been over e-mail and the phone so far, so I'll see if I did make a good choice in a few weeks.

[Guest |||]

I would have thought thats the common outcome?

[Secret_Ninja]

I LOVE my advisor. I interviewed her while she was interviewing me, and the interview began with my first email. Over the last few years, this has been my experience:

- She replies to emails within hours

- She works on my manuscripts/proposals/research needs 7 days a week & gets me draft comments back within 2-3 days. 

- If she will be out of town, she lets me know months in advance

- She allows me to reach for the stars, as long as she thinks it is feasible

- She is super focused on my career advancement and encourages me to think holistically when I take on any new responsibilities. 

- She will put her foot down if I am fucking up (which is never for me, but she has done it to peers)

- She never has more than 7 graduate students at a time that she is mentoring

- She understands that not all graduate students are created equal and mentors all her students differently according to their personalities/needs

- She is demanding and engaged and encouraging

- She is well known and respected in her field. 

 

This list could go on. I am 4 years in and I still LOVE her. I uncovered most of these traits by asking pointed questions during our email correspondence and during our interview. I also contacted her current graduate students for information. I hit the advisor jackpot. 

[Tall Chai Latte]

Is there ever a chance to find a good advisor? 

 

I seriously think that's a question without a good answer to. Even after going through 5 different rotations myself. Students around me have their tough moments with their own advisors, but none serious enough to cause a complete drop out or switching labs. Sometimes, it's about compromising -- advisors are not perfect. They are people with their own biases and values. You have your own set of biases and values too, and that will impact how you feel on the receiving end. The relationship between an advisor and advisee will also change over time; maybe you two started out fitting very well, but as time progresses, interests evolve and readjust, so conflicting interest between you and your advisor is not uncommon. 

 

I think it comes down to how much you want an advisor to do for you. Do you want him/her to only advise you on the scientific front? Do you want him/her to help you with career development after you graduate? Or you are fairly independent, all you need is a steady financial support and nothing else? These are things you need to consider, and everyone's milage may vary. But for me, an advisor should at the very least satisfy the first criterion: being able to advise you on the science. Do not, ever, choose an advisor who cannot even do that, no matter how compelling/exciting the project they are trying to pitch at you is.