A PhD in History without an undergraduate degree in History but with (perhaps non-traditional) experience?

[tingdeh]

Hi all,

 

Glad to be back in The Grad Cafe community after everything has settled down. Just had a brief question for y'all:

 

Would you know of any History programs open to an applicant without a prior degree? I finished my undergraduate in English literature and did my honours thesis in the same broad cultural field as my intended interests in cultural history going into application season. I've got previous research experience with some grants to do archival work, ethnography, and oral history abroad, but the formal label is a "literature" degree. 

 

This year, I'll be working with some very notable historians working in US Empire, labour, and foodways, on a project that extends my thesis (specifically the ethnic, cultural, and urban focuses) but enters into a whole new set of methodologies. I will be working with another summer fellowship, and into the year, I will be working with an RAship. I plan to audit some senior seminars and graduate courses--at the enthusiastic invitation of my advisors--in order to prepare my work for a PhD program. 

 

A natural corollary of the question is this: to what extent might some post-degree, fellowship, RAship, and non-"formal" scholarly work such as the background I have outlined be considered by some good programs in cultural history/studies? In terms of non-history programs, I'm looking at Berkeley's Ethnic Studies, Brown's American Studies, NYU's American/Food Studies. Any thoughts are welcome!

 

Thanks, everyone!

[spellbanisher]

It is not uncommon for people to get graduate degrees in fields different from their undergraduate. Two of my letter writers got their BAs in literature. The fact that you are already doing research in history with notable historians already gives you stronger credentials than most applicants with BAs in history. The enthusiasm you seem to be showing, along with your research and collaborations indicates that you are a strong candidate.

To answer your question more directly: apply to any program where you believe you would be a good fit. As long as you provide letters of recs from historians, a strong historical writing sample, and a statement of purpose that explains why you are a good fit for the programs you are applying to, you should be a very competitive applicant.

Edited May 3, 2014 by spellbanisher

[tingdeh]

It is not uncommon for people to get graduate degrees in fields different from their undergraduate. Two of my letter writers got their BAs in literature. The fact that you are already doing research in history with notable historians already gives you stronger credentials than most applicants with BAs in history. The enthusiasm you seem to be showing, along with your research and collaborations indicates that you are a strong candidate.

To answer your question more directly: apply to any program where you believe you would be a good fit. As long as you provide letters of recs from historians, a strong historical writing sample, and a statement of purpose that explains why you are a good fit for the programs you are applying to, you should be a very competitive applicant.

Really good to know, thank you! I really enjoy the applied work of cultural history even though I did not do any formal in-name classroom work for my undergraduate. Looking forward to both my future work and applying for programs.

[Sparky]

Regarding interdisciplinary programs:

 

I am a historian in one, with a background not in history. From that perspective, they can be really good and we can be *very* attractive applicants.

 

However. You want to be really sure that the program you select--especially an interdisciplinary one--both aligns with your goals for the PhD, and **has a PROVEN, RECENT track record** of placing its graduates into that career path. In 95% of cases, maybe more, an interdisciplinary degree makes it much, much harder to get an academic job, because academic departments run along disciplinary lines. There are a few programs out there that have astounding success for their graduates on the academic job market (insofar as any department's success can be "astounding" today). If you want an academic job, be sure to get solid data from current students, not just the dept's blithe promises that "all our graduates who want academic positions obtain them." (That means nothing.)

 

Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely, 100% in the right program for me. I enjoyed my interdisciplinary coursework, *loved* having one non-history field for my exams, and really appreciate that I've got a lit person on my dissertation committee (yow). My department has excellent success in my Plan A and Plan A-Prime career paths. (Plan B is also showing promise in the last two years, but that was unexpected on everyone's part.) But there are some hefty potential costs, and you need to be aware of them upfront if this is the path you choose.

[tingdeh]

Regarding interdisciplinary programs:

I am a historian in one, with a background not in history. From that perspective, they can be really good and we can be *very* attractive applicants.

However. You want to be really sure that the program you select--especially an interdisciplinary one--both aligns with your goals for the PhD, and **has a PROVEN, RECENT track record** of placing its graduates into that career path. In 95% of cases, maybe more, an interdisciplinary degree makes it much, much harder to get an academic job, because academic departments run along disciplinary lines. There are a few programs out there that have astounding success for their graduates on the academic job market (insofar as any department's success can be "astounding" today). If you want an academic job, be sure to get solid data from current students, not just the dept's blithe promises that "all our graduates who want academic positions obtain them." (That means nothing.)

Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely, 100% in the right program for me. I enjoyed my interdisciplinary coursework, *loved* having one non-history field for my exams, and really appreciate that I've got a lit person on my dissertation committee (yow). My department has excellent success in my Plan A and Plan A-Prime career paths. (Plan B is also showing promise in the last two years, but that was unexpected on everyone's part.) But there are some hefty potential costs, and you need to be aware of them upfront if this is the path you choose.

That is a really good point, and part of my hesitation (and my mentors') to apply to an interdisciplinary program. Since it's such a small field I'm working in, the relevant historians only seem to aggregate in at most three places. I'll have to do some more digging. Thanks!

[Brisingamen]

Hi. I applied to graduate programs this admission season with pretty much exactly the same sort of background you have -- undergraduate degree in literature, masters' degree in literature (with a cultural studies minor), some experience on archival and oral history projects. I was initially dissuaded from trying history programmes and several people suggested interdisciplinary programmes would make more sense, given my background. When I actually wrote in to potential advisors, I got a much more positive response. I'm not sure which history programmes you have been considering, but I was encouraged by three top-twenty programmes in the US to apply (and got into one of them)... it's probably worthwhile taking a shot at some of those history programmes, judging from my experience.

[tingdeh]

Hi. I applied to graduate programs this admission season with pretty much exactly the same sort of background you have -- undergraduate degree in literature, masters' degree in literature (with a cultural studies minor), some experience on archival and oral history projects. I was initially dissuaded from trying history programmes and several people suggested interdisciplinary programmes would make more sense, given my background. When I actually wrote in to potential advisors, I got a much more positive response. I'm not sure which history programmes you have been considering, but I was encouraged by three top-twenty programmes in the US to apply (and got into one of them)... it's probably worthwhile taking a shot at some of those history programmes, judging from my experience.

Really great to know this from someone who got in! Might I ask what your fields of focus were at time of application?

[Brisingamen]

South Asia/British Empire, labour migration and foodways. Also, see PM! 

[tingdeh]

South Asia/British Empire, labour migration and foodways. Also, see PM!

PMed back!

[ecm07e]

I guess I do have the same question. Ultimately I want to get my PhD in History, I have an undergraduate degree in History but I am getting my MA in Political Science. I figure that PoliSci is close to History so it will be ok....I hope   

[CageFree]

Well, Poli Sci tends to be more quantitative, so if you are interested in doing a History PhD then doing something that's more quantitative in nature might give you an edge. If, however, you wanted to do something based on oral history, it won't help as much. The disciplines are not so closely related past undergrad classes.

[tingdeh]

I was in the same situation--having two degrees in one discipline but wanting to switch to history. After traveling to different universities, meeting with faculty there whose interests aligned with mine, and following their advice to audit some courses, I decided to apply to more interdisciplinary programs. Not having any graded graduate work in history, however, hurt me and I didn't get in to any of them. I talked with the ones who were kind enough to follow up with me, and they all suggested that having done more graduate coursework in history and writing a stronger SOP would have helped. So I returned to grad school as a degree seeking candidate in a pretty nonselective MA program, worked really hard, and got in to a good doctoral program--in history, not American Studies as originally planned. I'm a lot older than I'd like to be at this point entering grad school for the third time, but at least I'm where I want to be. Taking the courses was also good for my SOP--helped me to see more clearly where I wanted to go and to articulate that in the statement. Good luck to you!

Much appreciated! My advisors are teaching some courses in my intended field of work and have invited me to audit them. At the very least, I will be familiar with the scholarly work on a more intimate level and get a bit of a head start. Thanks!