A question about housing and rent

[reinhard]

Okay so this is my first time living off campus. I am a Canadian and I am moving to Ontario next month, so if you live there, maybe you could help.

 

I am wondering over there, do landlords usually accept cheques or cash? Am I right to assume they will accept cheques from any Canadian Bank (TD, Scotia bank, etc...).

 

I don't want to ask any landlords I am going to contact with these questions as I feel they might rip me off.

 

I am planning to not even go to motel once I arrive and go straight into the home. Is this risky just based off pictures and conversation?

 

Also, am I correct that in addition to advertised rent, I must pay a damage deposit? We do that in BC, Canada. Does the same apply in Ontario?

Edited May 19, 2014 by reinhard

[lewin]

I'm from Ontario and I rent.

 

 

Don't pay cash, send them a cheque. If they want cash that's a red flag because they won't give you the keys until the cheque clears anyway. Also, ask them if it's possible for a friend to visit on your behalf to view the unit and take pictures. Even if you don't have anybody who can do this, it might scare off any scammers. Even better would be to ask your new department if there's anybody nice who would do this for you.

 

Ontario's rental laws can be much different than other provinces so you probably want to check out the government site on the rules. For example, Ontario landlords aren't allowed to collect damage deposits but they usually collect first and last month's rent.

 

Another important law specific to Ontario is that you usually sign a one year lease, but after that year is up you're NOT required to sign another lease or move out. Instead, the tenancy defaults to month-to-month and, moreover, even as a month-to-month tenant, the landlord cannot evict you except for specific prescribed reasons (e.g., extensive renovations or they want to personally live in the unit). "I want more money" or "you won't sign another lease" or even "I sold the building to someone else" aren't legal reasons to evict you even as a month-to-month tenant. A common thing is that the landlords ask (but can't require) you to sign for another year in exchange for some consideration (e.g., no rent increase). 

Edited May 19, 2014 by lewin

[reinhard]

First and Last Month's rent? So if I stay from May to say August. I have to pay for May's rent and August rent when I arrive (but not the months in between right?)?

[victorydance]

Standard practice is cheques. 

[nugget]

First and Last Month's rent? So if I stay from May to say August. I have to pay for May's rent and August rent when I arrive (but not the months in between right?)?

 

Exactly. So in that example if your rent was $1000, you'd pay $2000 on May 1, and $1000 on June 1 and July 1. On August 1, you wouldn't need to pay anything and you'd be expected to move out by the end of the month.

 

If you decide to renew later on, you'd pay rent on August 1 and the $1000 you initially paid would be used towards your last month in the dwelling.

Edited May 19, 2014 by jenste

[TakeruK]

I also moved from BC to Ontario!

 

Everything said above is very good advice. In addition:

 

1. Yes, you can use a cheque from any Canadian Bank, usually. I have not seen a listing that ever required cheques specifically from one bank only. 

 

2. There is a 60-day notice to vacate in Ontario. So, if you want to move into a popular building by e.g. Sept 1, it will usually be listed in early July. Depending on what you are looking for and where you are moving to, there will still be openings if you arrive just before Sept 1, but it may be the case that a lot of the good apartments that have a good price will be taken within days of being listed. For example, my wife and I moved to our Kingston, Ontario apartment Aug 1 but we signed the lease on like June 4. Our friends moved from BC and arrived in Sept 1 and the only place they could find with such short notice was about the same niceness as ours but an extra $350 per month in rent!! When we gave our 60 days notice to vacate, our apartment was leased to someone else within a week of us telling our landlord that we were going to move.

 

3. Rent increases are locked to the inflation rate in Ontario. Each year, your rent can go up by a maximum of whatever % that some regulatory body decides. Our first year was 0.9%, the second was like 2.5%. It's nice that there are predictable increases in rent so you can plan for long term expenses. Your landlord may choose not to raise rent, but they will generally raise them by the maximum allowed amount.

 

4. Your landlord is supposed to pay interest on the Last Month's Rent (LMR). What usually happens is that you pay LMR at the start of your lease, and then this means your last month of tenancy is already paid for, even if the rent increases over the time you've lived there. 

[lewin]

First and Last Month's rent? So if I stay from May to say August. I have to pay for May's rent and August rent when I arrive (but not the months in between right?)?

 

What jenste said but also that you'll probably be required to sign a year long lease unless you're subletting somebody else's lease for the summer, which is common in university towns. In that case, make sure you can keep the place at the end of the sublet period, if you want to, because subletting is the exception to what I wrote above; there the actual tenant can make you leave at the end of it.

[reinhard]

I'm from Ontario and I rent.

 

 

Don't pay cash, send them a cheque. If they want cash that's a red flag because they won't give you the keys until the cheque clears anyway. Also, ask them if it's possible for a friend to visit on your behalf to view the unit and take pictures. Even if you don't have anybody who can do this, it might scare off any scammers. Even better would be to ask your new department if there's anybody nice who would do this for you.

 

 

If they say "yes" to having friends come over and take pictures, wouldn't i be in trouble and make them suspect of me if I don't have any friends over there? Sending them the cheque seems risky, I thought I could just go there, meet the landlord, hand them the money and they give me the key.

 

Is that not how it works? Two of my friends (international) told me that's how they did it when they came to BC. I will probably change my plans then and stay at these sublets https://macoffcampus.mcmaster.ca/classifieds/category/sublets/, they can't scam now can they?

[TakeruK]

If they say "yes" to having friends come over and take pictures, wouldn't i be in trouble and make them suspect of me if I don't have any friends over there? Sending them the cheque seems risky, I thought I could just go there, meet the landlord, hand them the money and they give me the key.

 

Is that not how it works? Two of my friends (international) told me that's how they did it when they came to BC. I will probably change my plans then and stay at these sublets https://macoffcampus.mcmaster.ca/classifieds/category/sublets/, they can't scam now can they?

 

Note that with most landlords, in order to actually sign the lease, you usually have to provide last month's rent--so if you were hoping to close on a lease before you arrive, you will have to send money via mail. Cheque is safer than sending cash of course. But some bigger landlord companies will be able to take credit cards through the phone or online. They will send the lease to you, then you will sign it and send it back with your last month's rent. If you are renting through an individual or a smaller company, they might not have the infrastructure to do all of the above remotely. (For my wife and I, when we signed the lease in June, we wrote them a cheque for last months' rent too. We then paid first month's rent upon move in.)

 

A lease is a legal contract, so you have protections if someone takes your cheque, cashes it and then does not actually provide you with a place to rent. Sure, it's a big hassle so you should check and make sure they are legit before you sign the lease (and send the money). Most scammers will ask for money basically right away or claim to need $50 for a "credit check" or an "application fee". These fees are illegal in Ontario (but okay in some other places). 

 

It sounds like you are going to McMaster, and Hamilton is not as much of a college town as Kingston, so it might be easier to get a place after you arrive too. How far in advance were you hoping to secure a rental? Many landlords will not be willing to risk agreeing to save the apartment for you and not take a deposit ahead of time, especially in the fall when a lot of students are moving in. So, I don't think it's very realistic to expect to be able get someone to agree to rent to you and not give them any money until you actually arrive. Instead, most people either set everything up before they move (signed lease, paid last month's rent) or wait until they actually arrive and then look for a place. (**I might be wrong here--please correct me if my and my friends' experiences have not been typical).

 

Some people choose to just stay in a motel for about a week while they look for a place, while some people choose to take a short term lease and then take their time in finding a new place. In Kingston, the first week of September is a horrible time to move in because that's when all the undergrads move into their dorms and usually their family go with them to help them out. This completely fills up all of the hotels and motels in town (and also increases the price by a ton)! So, check if this happens in Hamilton and plan accordingly!

[reinhard]

Note that with most landlords, in order to actually sign the lease, you usually have to provide last month's rent--so if you were hoping to close on a lease before you arrive, you will have to send money via mail. Cheque is safer than sending cash of course. But some bigger landlord companies will be able to take credit cards through the phone or online. They will send the lease to you, then you will sign it and send it back with your last month's rent. If you are renting through an individual or a smaller company, they might not have the infrastructure to do all of the above remotely. (For my wife and I, when we signed the lease in June, we wrote them a cheque for last months' rent too. We then paid first month's rent upon move in.)

 

What if the lease they send me is forged? How do I even know that it is a legit lease? They could just photoshop or create some fancy pdf and make it look like it is a lease no?

 

A lease is a legal contract, so you have protections if someone takes your cheque, cashes it and then does not actually provide you with a place to rent. Sure, it's a big hassle so you should check and make sure they are legit before you sign the lease (and send the money). Most scammers will ask for money basically right away or claim to need $50 for a "credit check" or an "application fee". These fees are illegal in Ontario (but okay in some other places).

 

 

So how do I check if the lease is legit? They can put anything on there.

It sounds like you are going to McMaster, and Hamilton is not as much of a college town as Kingston, so it might be easier to get a place after you arrive too. How far in advance were you hoping to secure a rental? Many landlords will not be willing to risk agreeing to save the apartment for you and not take a deposit ahead of time, especially in the fall when a lot of students are moving in. So, I don't think it's very realistic to expect to be able get someone to agree to rent to you and not give them any money until you actually arrive. Instead, most people either set everything up before they move (signed lease, paid last month's rent) or wait until they actually arrive and then look for a place. (**I might be wrong here--please correct me if my and my friends' experiences have not been typical).

 

This summer. I am planning to stay at something like this https://macoffcampus.mcmaster.ca/classifieds/8-paisley-ave-south-2/. Here the rent is $175/week (for example), so I am planning to stay at place for a week and then once I arrive in the city I will go and search for a place in person.

 

 

Some people choose to just stay in a motel for about a week while they look for a place, while some people choose to take a short term lease and then take their time in finding a new place. In Kingston, the first week of September is a horrible time to move in because that's when all the undergrads move into their dorms and usually their family go with them to help them out. This completely fills up all of the hotels and motels in town (and also increases the price by a ton)! So, check if this happens in Hamilton and plan accordingly!

I've thought about motels as well, but I don't eat out, ever. And there is kitchen in motels, so not happening. Besides, I am going in the summer! Probably at the end of June.

[TakeruK]

What if the lease they send me is forged? How do I even know that it is a legit lease? They could just photoshop or create some fancy pdf and make it look like it is a lease no?

 

So how do I check if the lease is legit? They can put anything on there.

  

First, I think you are worrying a little bit too much about this issue. I understand that you are feeling a lot of anxiety and worry about moving across the country and starting a big new step in your life! But rest assured, tons of young adults make moves like this every year and it will all work out.

 

I am not sure what you mean by a "forged" lease. Leases in Ontario are not standardized by the government or any legal body. It's simply a contract between you and a landlord in which you agree to pay them rent and abide by their lease rules and in return, they are obligated to provide a place for you to live and respect your privacy etc. Leases are generally produced by the landlord company taking a template that they use and then adding the details like your name and their name and the address and the rent etc. in either by hand or via a computer. The file might be printed from a pdf or generated by photoshop but that doesn't make it any less legal.

 

To be safe, when they send you the lease, you should read it over carefully and make copies of absolutely everything. They will have signed it first and then send it to you, so when you sign it and send it back with the payment of last month's rent, the lease is now legally binding and you have entered in a legal contract with the other party. 

 

You should read the lease carefully to make sure you are okay with all of the terms of the lease. Ontario has very strict lease laws that prevent what landlords are allowed to put into their leases. See the link in lewin's post for all the details! But for example, as lewin said, landlords cannot force you to sign additional leases after your first lease is up. Landlords cannot also have a "no pets clause". Any such clauses in a lease will not be recognized by the law so you are not obligated to uphold illegal terms/clauses.

 

[reinhard]

First, I think you are worrying a little bit too much about this issue. I understand that you are feeling a lot of anxiety and worry about moving across the country and starting a big new step in your life! But rest assured, tons of young adults make moves like this every year and it will all work out.

 

One of my friend has been scammed three times in BC and he is an international student and one of my non resident (PR) friend also got forced into signing a 1 year lease because of a miscommunication (technically he was deceived). That's why I am worried.
 

I am not sure what you mean by a "forged" lease. Leases in Ontario are not standardized by the government or any legal body. It's simply a contract between you and a landlord in which you agree to pay them rent and abide by their lease rules and in return, they are obligated to provide a place for you to live and respect your privacy etc. Leases are generally produced by the landlord company taking a template that they use and then adding the details like your name and their name and the address and the rent etc. in either by hand or via a computer. The file might be printed from a pdf or generated by photoshop but that doesn't make it any less legal.
 

 

That's the part I am worried about, and what I mean by 'forged'. The scammer could send a piece of paper that looks like it is from the landlord company and deceive me into giving them rent. I don't want to be that idiot when I arrive I will have all my luggage standing outside a place I don't have access too.

 

By the way Takeru, do you know if there is a equivalent BC careCard in Ontario? The closet I've found is this http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/ohip/, I suppose I can't get one online. Do you happen to know anything else that are used in BC, but won't work in Ontario? My BC CareCard is the only thing I can think of at the moment

 

 

Thanks for helping me as usual Takeru.

[reinhard]

Also I can't find this information in the link lewin gave me, but can receipts be sent online? Or do they only give paper receipts?

[TakeruK]

That's the part I am worried about, and what I mean by 'forged'. The scammer could send a piece of paper that looks like it is from the landlord company and deceive me into giving them rent. I don't want to be that idiot when I arrive I will have all my luggage standing outside a place I don't have access too.

 

Also I can't find this information in the link lewin gave me, but can receipts be sent online? Or do they only give paper receipts?

 

Okay, I see what you mean by "forged" now. Yes, this is a concern. My advice is to only deal with reputable landlords if you are going to rent a place unseen. As you pointed out, there may not be an apartment at all! In order to figure out which landlords are reputable, you can do some internet searching on the landlord company (but some scammers are pretty sneaky). My preferred way is to talk to the students and find out who they rent from and go with landlords that are well recommended. This makes your selection smaller but it's safer! Many people do rent from private/individual landlords but these usually come with the ability to see the place in person. Doing it sight unseen means I would take some precautions.

 

In Kingston, our landlord was Homestead Land Holdings. They are a very large company that own a LOT of buildings in Ontario, including Hamilton (http://www.homestead.ca/search/hamilton-apartments-for-rent/). Companies that are like this are reputable and I would trust them when doing business online. 

 

As for receipts, the best receipt is actually a cancelled cheque. When we paid our rent deposit (in person), they made a copy of the cheque for us immediately. Our bank also sends us a scanned image of every cheque drawn from our account, so I keep those too. Homestead will also issue a paper invoice upon request listing the amounts and dates of all rental payments (this is more for proving rental history than a receipt purposes though).

 

By the way Takeru, do you know if there is a equivalent BC careCard in Ontario? The closet I've found is this http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/ohip/, I suppose I can't get one online. Do you happen to know anything else that are used in BC, but won't work in Ontario? My BC CareCard is the only thing I can think of at the moment

 

 

 

Yes, the equivalent to the BC CareCard is the Ontario OHIP card. Just so you know, the medical plan in BC is called MSP--Medical Services Plan, which you access with your CareCard. In Ontario, the phrase "OHIP" generally refers to both the plan and the card. 

 

As you are a student attending school in Ontario, you have two options when it comes to provincial health care. You can keep your BC residency and only be a "temporary resident" of Ontario for health care purposes. This means you will continue to use the CareCard in Ontario and it will be charged to BC. 

 

Alternatively, you can choose to declare your intention to become an Ontario resident and switch to OHIP. This is what I did because my wife was not a student when she moved with me so she would be forced to do this. When you apply for OHIP, you have to declare that you intend to stay in Ontario permanently, which really means that you don't have a plan to leave Ontario after graduation (not that you actually want to stay for eternity). 

 

It takes 3 months of living in Ontario before you can be an Ontario resident (and stop being a BC resident) so your OHIP card won't be active until 3 months after your move to Ontario date (as proof, you generally supply a copy of your lease or a utility bill). During these 3 months, you are still a BC resident so you can still use your BC CareCard. After 3 months is up, your BC MSP account will become inactive, but you can reactivate it if you move back to BC. In fact, I was born in Ontario but moved to BC at a young age so when I moved back for grad school, they were able to reactivate my OHIP card from 20 years ago! This is all automated when you apply for an OHIP card since the provinces communicate with one another. 

[reinhard]

 

Yes, the equivalent to the BC CareCard is the Ontario OHIP card. Just so you know, the medical plan in BC is called MSP--Medical Services Plan, which you access with your CareCard. In Ontario, the phrase "OHIP" generally refers to both the plan and the card. 

 

 

 

I am a bit embarrassed to admit I know little about these things or my own country for all that matter (serves me right for not paying attention in social studies). All I know is that this CareCard is my magic card that gets me free medical care (or discounts).

 

According to this brochure from the MSP, http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoben/pdf/msp-brochure.pdf, I have to pay a premium rate since I am over 19. But what health insurance company is one enrolled in, I thought Canada has a free healthcare system? I should probably ask my father about this once he returns on time...

 

 

As you are a student attending school in Ontario, you have two options when it comes to provincial health care. You can keep your BC residency and only be a "temporary resident" of Ontario for health care purposes. This means you will continue to use the CareCard in Ontario and it will be charged to BC.

 

 

Pertaining to my last question, what does this mean...? Charge to BC? How will this affect me? You just mean the provincial (BC) government has to deal with it right? Not me.

 

Also since I am leaving BC, I should fill out this form https://www.health.gov.bc.ca/exforms/msp/6759fil.pdf and this form https://www.health.gov.bc.ca/exforms/msp/7062.html ? Did you have to fill those when you left BC?

 

Also according to this http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoben/leavingbc.html#absence, I need to contact HIBC about leaving BC. Did you do this as well when you left?

 

 

This is all automated when you apply for an OHIP card since the provinces communicate with one another.

 

 

So what is more advantageous move here? Get the OHIP or possibly continue to use my BC Carecard  (or service card now they call it? ) for the duration of my studies?

 

Sorry for hammering all these crazy questions at you Takeru

[TakeruK]

No, it's a myth that Canada has completely "free" HealthCare everywhere. Each province runs its own healthcare plan and charges for them separately. 

 

In BC, the MSP is not free once you turn 19. The maximum rate was around $70/month when I last checked. However, the premiums are based on your income, and most student incomes are low enough that you would pay no MSP fees (or very little). In addition, many employers in BC will make your MSP fees a benefit for the employee and their dependents under 25 as long as the dependents are in school. So if your parents are working for an employer that does this, your MSP fees are being paid without you involved. (Note $70/month is far far less than pretty much every single American health plan!! Our plans here in the US are $200/month with much less coverage).

 

In Ontario, OHIP is completely free. Since most people live in Ontario, this may be where the myth comes from. 

 

When I say "charged" to BC, it's because the doctors and hospitals etc. still need to get paid for their work! When you use your OHIP or ServiceCard, it goes on your records and the provincial government pays for the service. If your service/procedure is covered, then you won't have to pay anything. For some things, your ServiceCard/CareCard/OHIP won't cover and your doctor will let you know that you will have to pay for it. For example, getting a physical done for work purposes is not by OHIP and I had to pay for this report to be sent to my US school.

 

If you are leaving BC and switching to OHIP then you don't have to do much with MSP. When you apply for OHIP, they will do all this paperwork for you and suspend your BC Services. 

 

If you are leaving BC and planning to stay on the BC MSP, you should follow the instructions in the links you provided and let them know you will be temporarily out of the province for school purposes.

 

What is best for you depends on what you want to do. I think almost every undergraduate student I know from out of province will keep their home province services. Every single graduate student I know tend to keep their home province services but some of them do switch to Ontario since OHIP has no premiums. Students with dependents who are not also students (e.g. spouses or those with children) will tend to switch everyone to the new province's plans. For you, I don't think there is much difference between the two plans.

[PeterH]

A bit off-topic, but hey there reinhard, I'm heading to Mac for my MSc in the fall too. I hope you don't mind, I'm shamelessly mooching info off this thread. I live in Ontario, but I'll be renting for the first time.

[lewin]

In Ontario, OHIP is completely free. Since most people live in Ontario, this may be where the myth comes from. 

 

Just to be pedantic, Ontario charges a health premium ($0-900 depending on income) but it's assessed on your tax return so most people probably don't notice it.

 

To the OP: Prescription drugs, dental, vision, etc. are also not typically covered by provincial plans but hopefully your university has supplementary coverage for these things. Many universities do as part of their TA package or graduate student association. You'll probably need that regardless of whether you're on BC's plan or OHIP but don't worry about it until you arrive on campus.

Edited May 23, 2014 by lewin

[TakeruK]

Just to be pedantic, Ontario charges a health premium ($0-900 depending on income) but it's assessed on your tax return so most people probably don't notice it.

 

To the OP: Prescription drugs, dental, vision, etc. are also not typically covered by provincial plans but hopefully your university has supplementary coverage for these things. Many universities do as part of their TA package or graduate student association. You'll probably need that regardless of whether you're on BC's plan or OHIP but don't worry about it until you arrive on campus.

 

That's good to know--I did my own taxes while in Ontario but I must have overlooked it (or it doesn't show up on UFile unless you meet some income requirements?). Thanks for the pedantry (is that a word?)

 

As for the second note--these plans usually cost between $200 to $500 per year, depending on the school and the actual plan, in case you are worried about costs.

[reinhard]

In BC, the MSP is not free once you turn 19. The maximum rate was around $70/month when I last checked. However, the premiums are based on your income, and most student incomes are low enough that you would pay no MSP fees (or very little). In addition, many employers in BC will make your MSP fees a benefit for the employee and their dependents under 25 as long as the dependents are in school.

 

 

So there are health care insurance companies? Do you know a few? What was the one you were on?

 

 

 

So if your parents are working for an employer that does this, your MSP fees are being paid without you involved. (Note $70/month is far far less than pretty much every single American health plan!! Our plans here in the US are $200/month with much less coverage).

 

 

I see, so if you are self-employed, then you don't have to pay as well?

 

 

 

In Ontario, OHIP is completely free. Since most people live in Ontario, this may be where the myth comes from. 

 

 

 

So then doesn't this seem like the most advantageous move for anyone moving to Ontario?

 

 

Just to be pedantic, Ontario charges a health premium ($0-900 depending on income) but it's assessed on your tax return so most people probably don't notice it.

 

Hey my tax return is always different from what I get on TurboTax lol.

Edited May 24, 2014 by reinhard

[reinhard]

A bit off-topic, but hey there reinhard, I'm heading to Mac for my MSc in the fall too. I hope you don't mind, I'm shamelessly mooching info off this thread. I live in Ontario, but I'll be renting for the first time.

Nah it's fine, but don't you have questions yourself too?

[PeterH]

Nah it's fine, but don't you have questions yourself too?

Ooooh nah, I'm doing alright browsing other people's questions. I figure I'll sort things out for myself in a month or so when I start looking for a place. Am I right in assuming you're going for Physics though? 

[lewin]

That's good to know--I did my own taxes while in Ontario but I must have overlooked it (or it doesn't show up on UFile unless you meet some income requirements?). Thanks for the pedantry (is that a word?)

 

It's based on taxable income and I think the minimum taxable income to pay anything is $20,000. I only noticed because last year that was the only actual cash I paid to the government; my tuition credits didn't count against it.

[TakeruK]

It's based on taxable income and I think the minimum taxable income to pay anything is $20,000. I only noticed because last year that was the only actual cash I paid to the government; my tuition credits didn't count against it.

 

Ah okay, my TA/RA income didn't reach that much while I was in Ontario so that's why I never saw it

[reinhard]

It's based on taxable income and I think the minimum taxable income to pay anything is $20,000. I only noticed because last year that was the only actual cash I paid to the government; my tuition credits didn't count against it.

Scholarships don't count right?