Time to give up on academics?

[deadwriter]

Hi There,

I need some advice. After many years of school, I have racked up 80 000 in student debt and am currently 33. My most recent schooling was a MA in English, where I did quite well. Unfortunately, all of my 8 initial applications to PhD programs were rejected. I did received one nice rejection from a very good school that encouraged me to reapply. Panicked, I looked for schools that accepted late applications, and am waiting to hear back from those schools. They are pretty much unknown, or bottom tiered schools.

My girlfriend (and potential wife) has been urging me to reconsider getting a PhD even if I am accepted and pursue another career. She is concerned that my job prospects will not be great because of the lower tiered schools, and that I would be missing out on 4-7 years of good income (4 for the degree, and maybe 3 or more after that before I get a stable position). She is not comfortable supporting me through that process, and the more I think about it, the more I wonder if maybe it is time to move on. I would love the work of the PhD, but I would probably be in my 50s by the time I paid off my loan IF I got a tenured position. Since many successful English PhDs are unable to find tenured positions (especially those looking for contemporary lit, especially American, or Creative Writing in Canada) it may even be longer before my loan was paid off, and I may end up looking for a job outside academia anyway.

So, what is you advice? Are my perceptions of the academic job market inaccurate? Is it really not that bad? Or should I throw in the towel and look for something else that won't make me miserable?

[stilesg57]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/opinion/27taylor.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Read that article this week and it put a knife in my heart.

I want a PhD and to eventually teach at the collegiate level too, but I have to admit that dream is slowly but steadily leaving me. I'm 25, and I'm just not liking the idea of being poor into my mid 30s - if I'm lucky.

I'm sorry about your position. It sucks to want something so badly and put so much work into it for so long and then have to take stock of whether or not to scrap your dreams/plans and move on. Best of luck to you.

[Tobson]

well as you mentioned one has to be realistic, the job marked for tenure position in the social sciences is really competitive. (I think that is part because there are a lot more women than in the engineering disciplines - where I come from - and also because this job market in general pays less). You should discuss it whith your partner in depth but in my opinion she is right with her doubt. It might be different if you were 33 y/o without debt but with debt it is probably almost impossible. You don't only have to pay your debt/interest, you also have to start thinking about your social security after retirement as well as the possibilty of getting children (expensive). Just run the numbers. A good school with good funding would possibly be a first step towards solving this dilema - especially if you really want to get on the tenure track.

[teaganc]

Regardless of job prospects: Which is more important to you--a career as an academic, or your potential future wife?

Making a major life decision against her wishes could destroy your relationship. On the other hand, so could deferring a dream you feel strongly about.

[nandelle]

I agree with teaganc here, it's a matter of priorities. Asking her to stick with you as you pursue this and rack up debt in pursuit of your dream is a lot to ask. However, if you choose to not go because of her doubts, will this result (down the road) in bitterness towards her? Will you ever blame her for not being able to get a phD?

Could you give it one more shot - tell your future wife that you want to try one more time, but with the caveat that unless you get a funded offer from a good school next application cycle, you will postpone your dreams of a phD (at least for now).

Then take this year, focus on earning some $$, and really work on putting together a killer application for next year.

I'm really sorry you're in this position, and I hope things work out for you.

[Stories]

I wouldn't go for a unfunded PhD, particularly in the humanities because there aren't a whole lot of job opportunities outside of the academic world. It doesn't make much financial sense.

Also, is the PhD in English your ultimate dream? If not, I'd reconsider. There are plenty of fulfilling jobs you can have which you can still get involved with as a person possessing a master's degree.

[deadwriter]

Thanks for your advice everyone. I have decided to take the plunge. I will get decent funding with the prospect of more in a city that gives me the opportunity to develop a backup plan if academics doesn't work out. Furthermore, in seeing how important academics was to me, my partner has decided to support me (with the caveat that I have to find ways of making money during and after the PhD).

Thanks again,

Andrew

[SconnieNation]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/opinion/27taylor.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Read that article this week and it put a knife in my heart.

I want a PhD and to eventually teach at the collegiate level too, but I have to admit that dream is slowly but steadily leaving me. I'm 25, and I'm just not liking the idea of being poor into my mid 30s - if I'm lucky.

I do like the article. Brutal truth. I completely agree that the graduate education market has been saturated beyond repair, specifically in the current MBA offerings. I've also been observing some momentum with changes for the worse in the medical school education which is very scary. I seriously question the analytical abilities of individuals pursuing online or small tier MBA schooling. There are way too many of these institutions charging anywhere from 30k-80k for what I'm sure are laughable ROI's for their grads. Sure there 1 or 2 poster-boy/girl CEO's who may be alums, but I highly doubt University of Phoenix Online or low-mid tier State School U (ex. University of Wisconsin-name extension) come anywhere near the ROI that an Ivy League or Top Tier Public U offers.

The fact is you have to do your homework before you commit to a grad program. If you don't know the past, current, and projected job markets for the career path you are planning on seeking graduate/professional schooling, you are already behind the competition. It's basically like going to war. I know it sounds cold, but times are tough and its survival of the fittest. You must be 100% engaged in your goals.

Side note: what is the future? Will graduate schools dismantle and then global companies (ex. Chevron, Nike, Coca-Cola) create specialty programs where new grads PAY the companies they hope to work for and in return receive a function specific education (sales, operations, hr) while also gaining valuable work experience and contributing to that company's bottom-line while also generating "admission fees." If you think I'm off base or this is impossible, you are wrong. Companies struggling with budgets are already "auctioning" off internships in major markets. Imagine that, Undergrad-->Graduate-->Internship(s)-->Job/Career blown up to Undergrad-->Job/Intern/Career/FunctionSpecificEducation.

[hummus]

I am also thinking about giving up on my original dreams of an PHD and am looking for some advice/insight on the process.

My story:

I am entering my third year in a humanities PHD program (I already have an MA), but my first year at a new institution. I transfered post-MA from my old university to where I am about to begin school to be with my girl-friend who is also in the program. In the course of the year my girlfriend has decided she wants to leave the field after she gets her MA. I also have been thinking about leaving as well. As is the case with most humanities PHD's I am looking at 5 more years (at the minimum) before I will enter the job market. While my program is well respected (although its greatest strengths lay in a sub-field I am not doing my research in), I am very concerned about leaving grad school in my early 30's and being unable to find a tenure track position, especially one that would also provide job opportunities for my girl-friend (who will still be in the picture). Although I have had the PHD as a goal for a long time now, I dont know if I am willing to sacrifice a wonderful relationship, years of lost earnings, and the inability to choose where I work or live to fulfill that goal. I have a horrible image shooting through my head of me in my mid-thirties working at a low-tier university or college (If I am lucky) where I will teach the same class (or possibly less) than I would to high school students in a strong public/independent school for probably an equal (if not less) salary. I have heard many say that although the job market is atrocious, you never know where you could land up until you have that PHD in hand and go on interviews. While that is basically true, I am not willing to delude myself into believing that my first time on the job market will result in a tenure-track position at a school I would be interested in teaching at. Additionally, people say that if academia doesnt work out I could always teaching high school. I have already taught high school and had a fairly good experience, but if I am going to end up teaching high school why would I lose five years of earnings when I can already get that job (especially now with my MA).

As you can see, I am very stressed about this situation, and while I have a whole school year to think on this decision (I am not going to try to leave school until after this year), I would like to have a general idea of where I am heading sooner than later.

Any advice or personal experiences would be a great help.

[pea-jay]

I gave up on academia, at least for the next two decades and at the PHD level. I'm pretty pragmatic and took a long hard look at the cost/benefits and where I saw myself. As it turned out, I enjoy what I do now, with a MA sufficient to take the next step in my career. I'm content to continue advancing in my field as I have done the past 8 years + and work another 15-20yrs in the field when Im in my mid 50s. Only then would I consider the PHD track. This fits with my subject area (Urban Planning). A number of my professors were professional planners that reached the pinnacle of their career before taking their vast knowledge (and professional connections) back to the classroom to with them. I like this approach. It may work for other fields as well (though I would imagine the humanities may be tougher in this respect).

Has any one else considered this route?