KU's MA in Religious Studies

[Marcion]

Does anyone have any experience or information about the University of Kansas' MA in Religious Studies with concentration in Religions of the Near East and Mediterranean? By the look of things, it has fast become my number one graduate program. I am just curious what people can tell me about it. I am mainly going there to gain the language skills I would need to be admitted into a PhD program like the ones at Brown or UT-Austin or UNC Chapel Hill. I know KU has one of the best Classical departments in the country. What else do people know?  

[awells27]

It appears specifically geared toward preparation for doctoral work.  However, I did not see in the degree requirements how much room there is for languages.  I would imagine the 12 open credits could be applied in that direction.  As far as research goes, it looks quite good.  There are two professors that look quite good for studying early Judaism and early Christianity.  Perhaps you would inquire to one of them how one would acquire languages, most likely through Jewish Studies and the Classics departments.    It appears to be the type of MA I should have applied to.  

[Kuriakos]

A lot of universities will offer summer intensives in Attic Greek and Latin (and in modern research languages like French, German, Spanish, and Italian), so you could always do some of those even if they did not all end up being applied to your degree. 

[colormelovely]

Do you have info about their placement into Ph.D programs?

[dardemile]

I have looked into the U of Kansas a bit myself. 

 

They don't offer a ton of information about PhD placement on their website. The only info that I have found was in the "Alumni and Friends" section of the religious studies department page. It mentioned three 2013 grads of the M.A. program who are currently pursuing doctorates at Duke, Syracuse, and the U of Indiana. The three examples given there would indicate that their placement record is at least decent, but it is a very small, subjective (and perhaps selective) sample of information. 

 

I looked for the students named on KU's site on the websites of the programs that they are currently attending. The only student with extra information on their grad program's website is the who is attending Syracuse. The only substantive information that it mentioned was that she graduated with a B.A. in religion from the University of Arizona in 2005 and then receive her M.A. from Kansas in 2013. I'm sure that others know more about their placement record than I have mentioned, but that is all that I could find by web searching. 

[marXian]

It mentioned three 2013 grads of the M.A. program who are currently pursuing doctorates at Duke, Syracuse, and the U of Indiana. The three examples given there would indicate that their placement record is at least decent, but it is a very small, subjective (and perhaps selective) sample of information. 

 

For such a small program, if three students from one graduating class are now attending Duke, Syracuse, and IU, that's actually an amazing placement rate.

[colormelovely]

That's an excellent placement record. But if a department doesn't list their placement (it seems like a lot of M* programs don't), would it be appropriate to contact someone and ask?

[Zachary Salsbury]

I found this in the newsletter section of the alumni and friends tab.

https://religiousstudies.ku.edu/sites/religiousstudies.ku.edu/files/docs/Fall%202013%20Annual%20Newsletter%20Proof.pdf

U of C and Princeton are mentioned.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Zachary Salsbury

[Marcion]

Haha, after how many views this topic has gotten, I am starting to regret putting it out there! lol

[xypathos]

Give it a couple more months. We're all recovering from the last application cycle and preparing for the move.

[Marcion]

Yeah it seems like that. What I am trying to find is an MA program that will let me in with zero language admission requirements, but will train me during the program to have the language skills need to go onto a PhD, but isn't a Seminary or Divinity School or if it is, it isn't evangelical and will require me to take any ministry classes. Not an easy feat!

[Zachary Salsbury]

Yeah it seems like that. What I am trying to find is an MA program that will let me in with zero language admission requirements, but will train me during the program to have the language skills need to go onto a PhD, but isn't a Seminary or Divinity School or if it is, it isn't evangelical and will require me to take any ministry classes. Not an easy feat!

Im sure you could find a program that would allow you to begin some coursework while completing remedial language training. Maybe check that out. It seems highly unlikely, however, that you will find a program that is both a phd feeder and requires no previous language study.

[Joseph45]

Im sure you could find a program that would allow you to begin some coursework while completing remedial language training. Maybe check that out. It seems highly unlikely, however, that you will find a program that is both a phd feeder and requires no previous language study.

I strongly disagree.

[Zachary Salsbury]

I strongly disagree.

I guess I have just not seen any of these programs. Assuming these programs exist, one would hardly think that someone with no language background would be a competitive applicant. Do you have specific schools in mind?

Edited June 19, 2014 by Zachary Salsbury

[marXian]

Am I wrong, or don't schools like Duke, Yale, Chicago Div, HDS offer M* degrees that would prepare one for NT/EC study without having language training coming in? I'm not a text scholar, so I might be wrong, but I thought that was the case. Those schools have plenty of non-confessional people attending them. I feel like we've had this conversation with you on a different thread, TheResidentAlien.

[sacklunch]

^ You're right. There are plenty of programs that would prepare one for (possible) placement at a TT text-focused school. The real kicker is finding a program that will allow you to focus almost entirely on studying languages, which is somewhat rare. This is why I didn't attend programs such as Vandy/Emory's MTS because they only allow their MTS students to take a couple classes (for credit applied to the degree) in languages. Many of the big name divinity schools also only offer Koine Greek, which is quite honestly certainly a 'joke' compared to what you would be required to learn in a Greek 101 course in a reputable Classics Dept. 

[AbrasaxEos]

Yes, I think we have, and I think that there would be programs at a large number of the big name divinity schools that wouldn't require you to have languages.  It would be a very rigorous two years though, in that you'd need to bring your languages from 0-60 (so to speak) fast.  In particular though, I know that HDS offers free (for matriculated students) 8-week summer courses in Greek, Hebrew, and Latin - so you could pick one of those up in the summer such that you might be able to show some language proficiency by the time you apply.  I am not sure though whether you can take one of these courses in the summer before you start, I am sure someone on here can speak to this.  The only degree that I would see your having no language preparation being a problem for would be the concentrated M.A.R. degrees at YDS - these tend to be slightly more competitive than the regular M.A.R. they have, so people applying for them often have some language preparation.  I think there is the option though to start with the regular M.A.R. and move into the concentrated one a year in.  There is also the option for a third year added onto the M.A.R. at YDS, which is becoming less popular as the funding is dramatically decreased for it (I think this is the still the case).  Check out U of Chicago too - they are particularly strong on languages.  As sacklunch mentions, if you are serious about doing work in Ancient Christianity, you probably need to jump into an intro classical Greek class, not Koine. 

 

KU is probably fine as well.  They seem to have a decent placement (though I would ask about your field specifically), but as you note here, it might be a bit of a crapshoot.  The big name div schools have far more students (overall), but also a proven placement rate that a cursory glance around at some PhD student lists bears out.  The reasons for this have been enumerated in a number of other topics on this board, so I won't reiterate them here.

 

I don't think you'll have any trouble as an a/whatever at any of these places.  You can be as involved in the more confessional aspects of academic life as you'd like.  There is no statement of faith, expectation of creedal maintenance, etc. at any of the big name schools and plenty of folks go there wanting to study the field solely as an academic endeavor, including myself.  I even went to a few chapel services at YDS and felt comfortable just being there without any robust participation on my part.  As much as it might be some folks' dream to have the field firmly divided between theology and historical/religious studies - it simply ain't the case.  Experiencing a variety of viewpoints and approaches to this bizarre field is to your benefit, so don't eschew it too quickly.

[Marcion]

It would be a very rigorous two years though, in that you'd need to bring your languages from 0-60 (so to speak) fast.  

 

That is the plan. It is going to be a very long and difficult two years, but I think I can handle it. It has just been really difficult figuring out the American system and expectations in comparison to the Australian one. I have been told coming into the program with a really solid MTS might be a strong benefit and in my Statement of Purpose, I need to indicate that languages are my main focus at this point, or what I want to really look at.

 

In terms of the schools I have bee looking at: The University of Kansas, Claremont School of Theology, and Loyola University Chicago have been the main three I have looked at. I have also looked at HDS, YDS, and DDS but I am not sure about my odds. The University of Oregon also has an interesting Classics MA. It is just difficult to know about American applications. I just got my books on the GRE and I am already feeling overwhelmed (I am about to have a Masters degree and I have to take a standardized test...) First world problems I know, but it is just a lot to take in. But it is good to know that some of the bigger schools with a lot of funding actually do not expect languages upon entry. My idea is I would get into a program, and find out what the core books are and get into them in the break leading up.

Edited June 19, 2014 by TheResidentAlien

[sacklunch]

KU's program may honestly be more competitive than HDS or YDS (MAR/MTS). Shoot for the best programs, mate! I wouldn't waste my time with Claremont or Loyola; they don't even have enough money for their doctoral students!

[Marcion]

Thanks that is good advice. The reason why KU is so appealing is because my fiance lives in Kansas, and they have a really good MFA program for her. So we will already be in Kansas, and the cost of living is so cheap, plus the benefits (or maybe draw backs) of her family being there is pretty sweet. Thanks the advice everyone, both HDS and YDS has professors who I really admire as well in the field. I cannot see any where on their websites that they require languages for admission but I am sure it would help, however I will already have an MTS, so that might be a bonus. Do you know what they are like for International Admission? Apparently I have to apply as an International Student until I get my Green Card, which may take months.

[Marcion]

Does anyone know about Earlham School of Religion?

[xypathos]

Extremely small Quaker school that if you're interested in Quaker Studies might be a decent place for a M*. Otherwise, they don't/can't offer anything that far more reputable programs are capable of offering.

[Marcion]

The only degree that I would see your having no language preparation being a problem for would be the concentrated M.A.R. degrees at YDS - these tend to be slightly more competitive than the regular M.A.R. they have, so people applying for them often have some language preparation.  I think there is the option though to start with the regular M.A.R. and move into the concentrated one a year in. 

 

So you would recommend applying for the general M.A.R. at Y.D.S.?

[AbrasaxEos]

Yes, why not?  I would say that it might be worthwhile to email Adela Collins to see what the best course of action might be.  If you look here: http://divinity.yale.edu/admissions/master-arts-religion , at the bottom there is a paragraph about applying to the concentrated M.A.R., but being admitted into the comprehensive one with the possibility of transferring into the concentrated one after a year of (promising) study.  Explain your situation and basic interests and see what she thinks, as I would guess she would have a good handle on what kind of students get admitted into the concentrated program in NT.  The concentrated program there tends to function a bit like a mini-PhD at least insofar as specific professors work with specific students.  I did it myself, so PM me with any other questions you might have.  I think that you wouldn't have much trouble being admitted into the comprehensive M.A.R. - it isn't as competitive as it might seem.

[Marcion]

Thanks mate. I was just asking. You are a champ.