Stopping the tenure clock...

[peffy1962]

So I doubt I'm the first to bring this topic up, but I can't seem to find it any other threads, so I thought I'd resurrect it.

I am a 23-year-old female debating at the moment between pursuing a Ph.D. or a J.D. One of my biggest concerns about pursuing a Ph.D. involves the work/life balance, especially when it comes to children. Of the 8 female tenured/tenure-track professors I had as an undergraduate, only 2 had children, and it was apparent that one waited until she'd achieved tenure before having kids. What are everyone's thoughts on this? Is it feasible/wise to have kids before earning tenure (assuming you can get a tenure-track job in the first place?). I've heard that most universities give female professors the option to "stop the tenure clock" to have kids, but as I'd be enrolling during the fall 2010 semester, I'd be roughly 31 or 32 when completing my dissertation and who knows how old by the time I nail down a position/achieve tenure (40??). I'm definitely looking to have kids before age 40.

I know this is far down the line (it's not like I've found a husband yet! ), but I do think it's an important fact to take into consideration when deciding between graduate and professional degrees. How do people manage this? I'd be interested in hearing anybody's insights!

[thepoorstockinger]

Female lawyers are often in equally tough positions when it comes having children - it's hard to climb the ranks in a firm if you take a year off, and when you get back the work load won't get any easier.

Unfortunately, I think that this is true in most professions where there is competition for advancement.

[liszt85]

My view might not help you the least bit but I'll say it anyway. I wanted to do a MS in Music Technology but one major reason I chose to go for a PhD in Psychology (not entirely unrelated to the kind of research I wanted to do after the MS) instead is because my (to be) wife is 24 now, an MS would take 2 years and my intention is to then go for a PhD, and ideally we would like to have kids by the time she turns 30 or so. So I can squeeze in just enough time to get a PhD and to get a better paying post doc position by the time a kid arrives in the family.

So yes, I do think this is an important factor and you should most definitely consider what each type of degree entails. Good luck with your decision. Btw, I do not think its necessary to wait until you have a tenure position. You should, as you rightly said, complete your dissertation before having a kid but even if its tough, I'd think it would be possible to have kids even while you're in a postdoc position (maybe take a year off in between). With determination, you can make it work. It would be a nice idea to ask your professors who've done it for advice.

[t_ruth]

I've long thought that many professional women wait too long to have children. For me, my career would always be possible (even if I had to work a little harder as an older student or applicant), but the biological clock is very real. I've known so many women who have spent small fortunes trying to get pregnant or adopt because they went the career route first and then family was almost an afterthought.

I think it is very wise to consider these things ahead of time, but not very easy if you don't already have a partner.

fwiw, I already have two young children and will be starting my PhD now (in my early 30s). When I'm finishing and ready to put nose to the grindstone for a tenure-track position they will be in school and I will hopefully have a little more freedom from demands of motherhood (and more practice at it too!).

eta: I have a J.D. as well and got that before having children, but in the end life as a lawyer wasn't conducive to having a family (or a life). I understand academics put in a lot of work as well, but I haven't seen the hair-pulling stress among most professors that I have among lawyers (maybe in part because they are do something for work that they are also emotionally invested in).

I know I didn't really answer your question, but thought I'd respond to let you know there are many routes to a family and career and thinking about all these things now will help insure that you get there somehow. Good luck!

[socialpsych]

You should, as you rightly said, complete your dissertation before having a kid

I'm not sure this is so clear. It sounds like there are pros and cons to having a kid while in grad school. If anything it sounds as though the pressure is only greater if/when you're in a TT job.

I am not speaking from experience, but the wisest-sounding advice I've gotten is that there's never going to be a "good time" for kids in the academic career cycle, so if I want to have time for family I'd better make time. Of course there are probably better and worse times (like, 2 yrs before tenure review = probably not the best time) but I'll be busy and under pressure from now until I'm too old to have children, so...I will just have to find a way to deal with it.

[rising_star]

My mom is like t_ruth, in that she'd had three kids before she went back to school for her PhD. Two of the members of my lab are female PhD students with young children (~2 years and ~1 year), both of whom had those kids while in graduate school. There's another grad student with two kids, both under the age of 6, and she manages. If you want to have kids, it's not like you have to wait until you get tenure. You can have them while in graduate school, while working on the dissertation, or once you get a job. Whether you can stop the tenure clock really depends on when you want to have children. If you feel like you're ready now, then have them now. If you want to wait until you finish coursework, do that.

[jasper.milvain]

My husband and I are planning on having a kid once I'm ABD (All But Dissertation). I've talked to a whole bunch of academic mothers and fathers, and am pretty sure that we can swing it. My time will be flexible, so we can avoid daycare and its costs as much as possible by not taking our weekends on the same day. Hopefully I'll get federal funding from the Canadian government, which comes with paid maternity leave. I'm getting my PhD where both of our families live, so we'll have tons of support, my funding is stable, and my husband isn't in academia, so he won't be going crazy at the same times of term as I am.

I'm just scared of the physical risks, and navigating difficult work with 'pregnancy brain'. I'm flakey enough as is.

[Soon2BPHD]

Jasper, my wife and I will likely try the same route you are taking (having a kid while I'm done with coursework in my PhD program). I also agree with everyone who says there "is no right time." If you want to have kids, have them. It's not like you'll be any less stressed or have any more time the further along you get in your career. We're going to try having a kid while I am in school because we'll both be looking for TT positions when I am done (academic couple; maybe we won't be able to swing that, but we'll see) and we'd rather get used to being parents while I have some flexability. Will it be hard? Of course. But I imagine it will only get harder.

I don't know how lawyers have kids! All the lawyers I know are stressed beyond belief, up to their ears in debt, and at the office maybe 70 hours a week. Maybe I'm nuts, but I think academia is probably one of the more family-friendly career tracks one can take.

[SocViv]

What are everyone's thoughts on this? Is it feasible/wise to have kids before earning tenure (assuming you can get a tenure-track job in the first place?). I've heard that most universities give female professors the option to "stop the tenure clock" to have kids

I'd say yes, it's absolutely feasible, and yes, it's wise as long as you are ready for kids otherwise. As a married and slightly older than average entering PhD student, I have been considering and researching this issue quite a bit.

"Stopping the tenure clock" seems to be a new and wonderful thing for women in academia. I have been amazed during my PhD admissions process to learn about these things, and I really feel like academia is pretty backwards for a profession that considers itself to be at the forefront of, well, everything. But, it's going to be a lot better for those of us starting PhDs now than it was/is for those who've already finished. I think more and more universities are going to be shamed into allowing PhD moms to stop (well, pause) the tenure clock.

Most female professors who I've talked to about the issue say "It's possible, but it's hard" to have kids while a student, and that when you're trying for tenure, it's even harder. But, I think it's like any other job - it's your responsibility to check out what the benefits are before you sign on, and the benefits are getting more competitive. Why take a job somewhere that won't let you accomplish what you want with your personal AND professional life? It's hard to raise kids no matter what your job is.

Personally, as a returning student, I am WAY more comfortable with the possibility of having children while a student than I would be as a corporate manager. 6 weeks unpaid disability leave when you have a child? That's crap! I've heard that some students who have children during their PhD program take a semester off for "maternity leave", but that's at the discretion of your department. Child care is cheap and reliable at universities, and when I've talked to current PhD students or recent grads, the consensus on when to have kids (if you're sure you want them) is "right now".

Some women have done it before us, and it will get better as more and more women get PhDs and continue to pave the way.

[phreeduh]

Have you guys read this study? It might be of interest.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... JYiDXm3j2Q