Calculating GRE *TOTAL* Percentiles?

[Dustin DeWinn]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post. I don't want to waste your time with the minutia of my circumstances, but here it is for those who need to know: I finished undergrad 10 years ago, left with a deplorable GPA, have been working retail exclusively, and now have an opportunity to go back to school and do something more rewarding - writing seems to be my only talent and so I am going for Technical Writing. Because I cannot get into a MA program directly, I am entering a Graduate Level Tech Writing Certificate program which I hope to use to transition me into a MA program. In the meantime, before that starts, I got out of a depressive rut and started studying for the GREs.

My baseline scores from Kaplan before I did anything were 148 V/ 138 Q. I am working hard to improve these scores but I am (and have always been) absolutely useless when it comes to math and I have very little confidence I can do significantly better.

HERE IS MY QUESTION: 

I emailed my advisor and confirmed what the expectations are for GREs. This is what he said (in part):

"The Graduate School (not the department) looks at the GRE scores in the aggregate (verbal and quantitative together), and I believe that they’re looking for something like 30th percentile. Higher is great, but below that percentile, the grad school automatically recommends rejection, in which case the department would need to make a special argument in favor of admission (and of course we’d need some reason to do so). So, although you might think that the verbal section would be more important, they’re actually equally important. Or, more precisely, the total score is important (and it doesn’t much matter how the individual scores are divvied up)."

I have been trying to find a conversion for TOTAL GRE percentiles -- that's how I'm reading this. My current total is 286, which according to the chart below looks like 31%. If true, it means technically I meet the minimum requirements. I need you kind folks to help me verify this though. 
 

http://www.canteroverseas.com/greconversionchart.html

So please tell me if I'm reading his email correctly (that they add the two together) and if so, how to figure out the added percentile score? Thanks!

 

Thankyouthankyouthankyou

DD

PS: He suggested taking the MATs if I'm not big on math, but I think that is out of my depth. I have been working on verbal and begin quant tomorrow. 

Edited July 16, 2014 by Dustin DeWinn

[Cookie]

Regardless of what your advisor meant in that email, those scores are way too low. You cant trust the Kaplan practice test scores. In my experience, the actual test is harder. 

[Dustin DeWinn]

Yeah, I plan on taking a few practice tests, but I've been out of school so long, I'm starting early and starting low. I'm a bit lost, and would love a studybuddy (anyone in eastern NC, hello??), and I plan to get my scores way higher, but I need to be realistic too. 

[TakeruK]

You are reading that table wrong. It's a very confusing table that combines 3 pieces of information into one table! The first two columns simply converts OLD total score to NEW total score, it is independent of the other columns' percentiles!!

 

The line you are reading really says that a GRE V score of 146 is 31st percentile and a GRE Q score of 140 is 12th percentile.

 

Here is the correct chart to use to convert GRE V and GRE Q scores to percentiles: https://www.ets.org/s/gre/pdf/gre_guide_table1a.pdf

** Note that this chart has slightly different numbers because the percentile rankings changes each year

 

Note that there is no chart for total percentile scores because it makes no sense to consider this statistic. The GRE V and GRE Q scores should not be combined in this way.

 

Instead, I would interpret your email to mean that they care about your total GRE score and that each section should be above the 30th percentile (assuming that's what they mean when they say both parts are equal). So that means you should have a GRE V score of at least 146 and a GRE Q score of at least 147 (using the updated ETS link).

 

Finally, to answer your question, your score of 148 V / 138 Q means you are in the 36th percentile for V and 4th percentile for Q. But as others said, I wouldn't trust Kaplan scores. Also, you might improve faster than you think. Although these initial scores are low, the bright side is that even a few more points would greatly increase your percentile ranking!

[Dustin DeWinn]

What is infuriating to me and funny at the same time is the ETS PowerPrep II software is not compatible with my OS, which is WIN 8.1 They support WIN 8 and WIN 7, but not 8.1. I called and Facebooked them and they said to use a library or someone else's machine. They just updated it to support 8, and won't update for a while.

I bribed a friend with dinner if I can use her computer to do ETS practice tests, but the most useful external resource seems to be unavailable to me, at least for now. But I'm not quite ready to retest quite yet

Does anyone have any suggestions for a good alternative practice software? I hear Manhattan is good, as well as a slew of others and not sure what the best to use is at this point now that I have heard enough about Kaplan to make me consider a more conducive alternative. 

Edited July 16, 2014 by Dustin DeWinn

[TakeruK]

I studied almost solely from this website: http://www.majortests.com/gre/. I only studied for the GRE V, since I felt that my science background prepared me enough for the GRE Q so unfortunately I can't speak to how good this website's GRE Q material is. However, I would strongly recommend their GRE V stuff. 

 

Other things I did closer to the test date was to use the practice questions on the ETS website itself (not POWERPREP, they have a good number of sample practice questions too) and then also POWERPREP to familiarize myself with the test software and format.

 

Honestly, if you are currently at the point of scoring around the 30th percentile or less, I think the first step is to just prepare for the test and study for the type of questions as well as the material before trying to find a sample test to find some "baseline score". 

 

In my opinion, one can gain a lot more points in learning how to take the test, not necessarily the material itself. I scored very poorly on some of the GRE V stuff before I figured out the "thought process" behind the questions on the test and how ETS wants you to arrive at the answer. Once you crack that and understand what you are being asked, you can do a lot better! For me, the best way to learn this was to read the ETS' guide to the GRE (available on their website) and doing a lot of sample questions. Then, after I learned this, I found that simply memorizing a bunch of words will help greatly now that you know how to use them to answer the questions. 

 

I'm not saying you have to study this way--just letting you know what worked for me and hope that helps you think about how you want to do it for yourself! 

[Dustin DeWinn]

I studied almost solely from this website: http://www.majortests.com/gre/. I only studied for the GRE V, since I felt that my science background prepared me enough for the GRE Q so unfortunately I can't speak to how good this website's GRE Q material is. However, I would strongly recommend their GRE V stuff. 

 

Other things I did closer to the test date was to use the practice questions on the ETS website itself (not POWERPREP, they have a good number of sample practice questions too) and then also POWERPREP to familiarize myself with the test software and format.

 

Honestly, if you are currently at the point of scoring around the 30th percentile or less, I think the first step is to just prepare for the test and study for the type of questions as well as the material before trying to find a sample test to find some "baseline score". 

 

In my opinion, one can gain a lot more points in learning how to take the test, not necessarily the material itself. I scored very poorly on some of the GRE V stuff before I figured out the "thought process" behind the questions on the test and how ETS wants you to arrive at the answer. Once you crack that and understand what you are being asked, you can do a lot better! For me, the best way to learn this was to read the ETS' guide to the GRE (available on their website) and doing a lot of sample questions. Then, after I learned this, I found that simply memorizing a bunch of words will help greatly now that you know how to use them to answer the questions. 

 

I'm not saying you have to study this way--just letting you know what worked for me and hope that helps you think about how you want to do it for yourself! 

You raise a good point. The truth is I really am just gaining my footing. I took one of the free Kaplan practice tests for raw knowledge before I even really understood what I was getting into. Foolish? Absolutely. But I didn't know what I know now. The book said to take a practice test early on, but they didn't say how early, so before I read further, I just wanted to see where I am. 

I am still understanding how to decode questions, but I feel more confident then I did before. I plan on doing a lot more practice and refining my vocab and quant skills before I take the next test, and then some real practice tests on site. I have the luxury of more time than others, but the truth is I BS'd my way through all of my schooling and this is the hardest I've studied for anything, and though I am putting all my marbles into this, I may not have a refined method of learning how to do this as effectively as I can. It's not really an issue of intelligence though, but this is a skill I need to refine.

I appreciate your advice and everyone elses thus far - and to come. 

[Vene]

Fyi I used majortests to prepare for the quantitative section and it seemed comparable to what was on the actual test.but I do agree that you need to drastically increase your scores.

[geographyrocks]

Google GRE vocabulary words. There are some great resources online that are free.

[Dustin DeWinn]

The plot thickens. I emailed the Graduate School directly, just for clarification.

"Dustin, first let me clear up something, the graduate school does not make admission decisions, nor do we suggest that a student be rejected.  We give the programs the information that you provided and let them know whether or not you meet the minimums, but the program always has the option to admit by exception.

 

As for the GRE, we take the Verbal % and Quantitative % add them together and divide by 2, if that score is 30% or better then you meet the minimum requirement for the GRE.  The question about how important the math portion is to a program that math is not part of the curriculum has to be answered by the program, as again, the graduate school does nothing more than give the program a snapshot of your record and determines whether you qualify or not for regular admission.

 

That clears that up for me. So this brings me back to my original question: Does anyone know how to figure out the TOTAL percentile? How do I know what percentile that number is in for both Q & V combined?

The average of the initial scores I reported (which again, I am going to work on improving) is 143, but thats both together. So I'm not sure if that's 15%, 20%...

Thankyoythankyou

 

Basically, I have a chicken & egg problem here because the Dept Head and the Grad School have completely contradictory messages. 

EDIT: I called ETS and he said it sounds like I find out what scores correspond to the percentiles, that when averaged, would give me 30%. Does that make sense?

Edited July 16, 2014 by Dustin DeWinn

[Vene]

They're taking your average percentiles, but honestly hitting the bare minimum for the graduate college is not going to get you an admit.

[Dustin DeWinn]

Yeah, obviously I'm not going for the bare minimum, that's not a goal or aspiration. But I needed context as to where I am. I'm studying every day. I plugged in a realistic goal, and it's well above the min requirement. 

[TakeruK]

The plot thickens. I emailed the Graduate School directly, just for clarification.

"Dustin, first let me clear up something, the graduate school does not make admission decisions, nor do we suggest that a student be rejected.  We give the programs the information that you provided and let them know whether or not you meet the minimums, but the program always has the option to admit by exception.

 

As for the GRE, we take the Verbal % and Quantitative % add them together and divide by 2, if that score is 30% or better then you meet the minimum requirement for the GRE.  The question about how important the math portion is to a program that math is not part of the curriculum has to be answered by the program, as again, the graduate school does nothing more than give the program a snapshot of your record and determines whether you qualify or not for regular admission.

 

That clears that up for me. So this brings me back to my original question: Does anyone know how to figure out the TOTAL percentile? How do I know what percentile that number is in for both Q & V combined?

The average of the initial scores I reported (which again, I am going to work on improving) is 143, but thats both together. So I'm not sure if that's 15%, 20%...

Thankyoythankyou

 

Basically, I have a chicken & egg problem here because the Dept Head and the Grad School have completely contradictory messages. 

EDIT: I called ETS and he said it sounds like I find out what scores correspond to the percentiles, that when averaged, would give me 30%. Does that make sense?

 

Yes, the grad school told you exactly what to do to get the minimum percentile and the ETS person told you the same. Looking again at the link I sent you, let's say you wanted to make the bare minimum by getting 40th percentile in V and 20th percentile in Q. You can do this by scoring 149 in V and 145 in Q. 

 

Or, maybe you want to aim for 50th percentile in V and 10th in Q, you can achieve this by scoring 151 in V and 141 in Q. 

 

Or, you can aim for 60th percentile in V and 0th in Q, you can achieve this by scoring 154 in V and the 130 in Q (min score). Although this combination might be really bad. 

[Dustin DeWinn]

Yes, the grad school told you exactly what to do to get the minimum percentile and the ETS person told you the same. Looking again at the link I sent you, let's say you wanted to make the bare minimum by getting 40th percentile in V and 20th percentile in Q. You can do this by scoring 149 in V and 145 in Q. 

 

Or, maybe you want to aim for 50th percentile in V and 10th in Q, you can achieve this by scoring 151 in V and 141 in Q. 

 

Or, you can aim for 60th percentile in V and 0th in Q, you can achieve this by scoring 154 in V and the 130 in Q (min score). Although this combination might be really bad. 

 

Yeah, thank you. I was a bit confused. In hindsight after it was all said and done, it made more sense to me. But it wasn't until after my call with ETS when I was looking for a chart of added percentiles that it clicked for me. I won't try to rationalize my thick-headedness. 

I'm really not aiming for the bare minimum but needed to know where I stand. And I appreciate the patience and candor of the people in these forums. 

Edited July 17, 2014 by Dustin DeWinn

[vicky25]

Maths in my opinion is fairly basic when it comes to GRE exam while being a non native speaker of English I found it tougher specially the reading comprehension part.