Anyone having second thoughts?

[DespSeekPhd]

If it makes you feel any better, I'm a mom, too. I have 2 kids (9 and 2) and I'm going for my MA this fall in history.

[Guest Ida]

Mousakka and DespSeekPhD,

A lot of us women going to a PhD are going through the same self-questioning and doubts. Academia is tough on women, not because of the scholarly work, as we are just as capable and excellent at it, but because of family committments. If one looks at the way the academic careers goes, it just doesn't leave any time for someone to do parenting (PhD, post-doc, tenure-track and then it may be late to have children). Academic moms and spouses just cannot spend 20hrs/day studying, as it seems to have become the norm now and some supervisors expect. It might be one of the reasons why few women are going into PhD and beyond.

I strongly encourage you to try your best and not give up, although it will be tough. We owe it to ourselves for having come so far. If more of us go into academia, we can change the system from within and make it easier for the next generation. The culture will change eventually. Prejudice is unfortunately still present, but when in distress and doubt, just remember there are many of us going through similar difficulties. My guess is most people will be understanding of the difficulties, as more students nowadays have families. Some of my friends are having children during their PhD, and their supervisors are very supportive, morally and financially, and did not seem to think any less of them as scholars. Indeed, some students were very productive when in maternity leave, and published more papers than their male peers!

Another thing I can suggest is to find female mentors at the institution where you will be going. Not necessarily supervisors for the thesis, but female faculty that can help you, advise you and support you. One of the best things that happened to me during my undergrad and masters was to work with a female mentor that unwaveringly supported me. Seeing her being successful at her career and personal life, gave me hope that it may be possible for me too. The work expectations were realistic, and I was not questioned for taking time off for my family, or for not working evenings and weekends. It made my masters much happier than some of my colleagues.

I wish you the best of luck!

[Guest Frenchhopeful]

To rethinking:

I think that this debate about what to do has gotten way overblown. I wouldn't suggest committing to something as involved and tough as a PhD because you are afraid of offending recommenders or giving your undergrad school a bad name. Ultimately you must look out for yourself (as selfish as that sounds) because nobody else is going to do it for you. If you can defer with a respectable reason, do that. If they don't let you defer, you must consider what you really want for your long-term goal. If you think you definitely want a PhD because it is important to your career (becoming a professor or researcher, for example), this might be the time to chill out over the summer and give it your best shot in the fall. I agree with others that you might not have as good a shot the 2nd time applying. However, if you are convinced that you are going to be miserable because you are going to be away from your boyfriend and don't want to go to school anymore, why put yourself through it? Schools have had people back out of their acceptances before, and you should not let guilt make your decisions for you. When in doubt, go with your instinct. My advice, unless you are going to be completely miserable: do the program!

To the women: As far as women in PhD programs, yes, it is tougher for us in some respects. Unless you are going to some hillbilly school though, most professors are progressive in their thinking and will not discriminate because you have children, are a woman, or are a non-US citizen. Perhaps I am too optimistic on that front. However, I do think that expectations are generally higher for women and we sometimes have more to deal with outside of the professional realm. It is a tough call for sure. Not to discourage any of the women out there, but there is a really eye-opening study on the Berkeley website that talks about reproductive/marriage trends amongst female PhDs. Here is another article along the same lines. Perhaps it will serve as a dose of reality, or a dose of inspiration. http://www.aaup.org/publications/Academ ... 2ndmas.htm

Best to all of you.

[Guest Moussaka]

If it makes you feel any better, I'm a mom, too. I have 2 kids (9 and 2) and I'm going for my MA this fall in history.

It does make me feel much better, thanks I just keep reading about young applicants worrying about whether to have children or not, whether to move in with their boyfriends or not...how I wish those were my problems :roll: (not that I am trivialising them but compared to what I feel I am dealing with now, well they seem so small.

Frenchhopeful, thanks for the link I really need many of those articles to open my eyes!

[morfinx]

rethinkinng, don't worry about the whole "screwing people over" bit, that's just one person blowing smoke. In my opinion, if a student is teetering on the edge of acceptance so much that not admitting one person would make the difference of acceptance and rejection, then that student hasn't worked hard enough in the first place. If that student is more qualified than you, then he/she wouldn't even be in that kind of predicament. So don't let the guilt trip get to you and do what you have to do.

Having said that, I noticed you mentioned "financial stability and a fulfilling personal life". That's also my goal as my grad work is aimed squarely at industry work rather than academia. You did not mention what field you are in, but it sounds like you are leaning toward industry work. What is the alternate route if you do not go to grad school? I agree with the others that if your school allows deferrment, go ahead and do that and think it over over the next yr. However, if they do not, I would lean toward the alternate route if it is immediately viable. Based on everything you've said, I feel that is the more suitable course of action.

[JM]

This is WHY people should ALWAYS take a YEAR or so off after undergrad to figure out what they want to do. I never recommend people jumpin straight to grad from undergrad. Sometimes it may not even be the right program for you (yeah even if its your dream school).

Sorry I have no advise to offer as to what to do if I were you. Personally for me grad school is as big of a committment as marriage. Both last two years... just kidding

[Guest cheryl]

I really want to do this without coming off rude, JM, but it's not a good idea to pronounce blanket statements about what EVERYONE in the entire world should ALWAYS do... according to you. Unless you're the creator deity in a clever disguise. In that case, please send a lightning strike outside my window so I know and can retract my statement

What works for some, doesn't work for others. People figure out what they want to do at different points in their lives, so why take a year off doing something you're not as interested in if you'd rather be at grad school? I agree that if you're wavering, by all means, delay applying or defer acceptance. But if you know that this is what you want, go for it!

[PETRAL6]

I would go crazy taking a year off. All I want to do is be in academia. In fact, the summer is going to be hard because I won't have research only waitressing Why take a year off to prolong the agony of having a real (and by real I mean minimum wage) job for a whole year?

[Guest Meee]

I agree. Some of us have been working "real" jobs since we were 16, and have had the opportunity to learn about ourselves and know what we want to do. Why have 7 years of work experience if after 6 you are ready for grad school? I know I'm not taking a year off for just one more year of life experiences.

[DespSeekPhd]

I think the the kind of year off JM was referring to was the year off where you work in a career type job or something related to your field (heavy research, Fulbright, etc.). At the risk of being flamed, I agree with him. There are plenty of people who "knew" they wanted to be in academia forever, until they got partway through their PhD. And there are lots of people who do want to be in academia, but after some outside experiences change and refine their focus. After I left my undergrad, my focus was solidly modern Europe and conflict studies; after five years of independent study while spending time in my career, I realized I'm very much a medievalist, and I am more passionate about that than I ever was about my previous interests (don't get me wrong, I was very passionate about my previous topic of interest, too, I'm just more so about this.)

One of the reasons adcoms love people who have spent some time outside the ivory tower is that those people KNOW they really want to be there. They've been to the other side, they've experienced it, and they chose to come back. People who have spent at least a year outside have, in general, far more perspective on grad school than those who go straight through (I realize there are exceptions, but the person that does not benefit from a solid, well-spent year off is rare indeed). Heck, I left a $50,000 a year career to go back to grad school for $10,000 and tuition. And if asked, I can specify exactly why. Not only is that desireable for adcoms, it's desireable for me, because I know I'm not going to be partway through wondering, "Why am I doing this again?"

Besides, then you don't have to apply for grad school while finishing up your senior thesis/master's thesis.

[DespSeekPhd]

BTW, read this - read the whole thing, it's not as anti-academia as you think at first, but embedded in the sarcastic humor, he has a strong point.

http://www.giantflightlessbirds.com/CCdropoutnow.htm

[History_Nerd]

BTW, read this - read the whole thing, it's not as anti-academia as you think at first, but embedded in the sarcastic humor, he has a strong point.

http://www.giantflightlessbirds.com/CCdropoutnow.htm

$100 PER lecture. Whew.

[Guest rethinking]

Well, after having gone through the whole thing, I completely agree with all of the people who say that one should take at least a year off. I really wish that I had, because I think I probably would be much more sure about my plans if that were the case. I thought at the time that not taking time off was a good idea, not only because I had wanted to be a professor since I was 17, but also because I had actually tried out a number of different career paths (teaching special ed, non-profit work, publishing) with summer internships and hadn't found any of them to be as fulfilling as the idea of being a professor.

If I could do this year over, I wouldn't have applied given how I feel now, but I can't exactly go back in time. I probably will go to grad school next year, but I'm afraid that the chances I have of actually making it through the program will be lower than if I had waited a year.

[History_Nerd]

In the midst of my year off, I wished that I had just decided to go into grad school. Looking back on things now, however, I feel well rested and more confident about my decision. I worked a couple of different jobs, internships, and wrote a lot. If you take a year off, you don't have to sit in a cubicle all day - you could go teach english in another country, get a long term internship, practice your track and field skills, whatever. I'm sure it isn't for everyone, but I am glad I took a little bit of time off before school.

Some people need to remember to have a little fun too . . .

[JM]

Hey people- I am sorry if I came across as self righteous. But I guess if you do know what you want to do 100% by the end of your undergrad then I dont see a problem. But there are many people who always tell me "I know I wont to be in grad school but I am not sure which one". For them its a good idea to take a year off. I did my undergrad in computer science and I got hired by the Government right after, I thought I would do my MBA just cuz you know thats what everyone does. I took a few business courses and I realised its really not for me since I enjoyed working for the wgovernment. But its not till last year, I realised how much I really liked working in the Public Sector and decided to apply to public policy schools. Anyways my 0.02 and I am sorry if I offended anyone.

PS: I am a "she"

[PETRAL6]

Yeah, I agree that people who just go to grad school because they haven't figured out anything else and don't want a job should possibly take soem time to figure it out before commiting to a program. I don't think you offended anyone, you just have to be careful with definitive language with a grad school crowd. I try to minimize use of words always and never. As for the "she" I think it is pretty common to say "he" as a preset. I try to pluralize to avoid gender use and because I think s/he looks silly, but I think everyone slips sometimes. I think to make up fo it, I'm going to call any gender ambiguous person she for the next year.

PS- Lats part totally a joke. I am also a she.