fancypants09 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) Deep breaths, y'all! Just remember: adcomms aren't looking for already polished, perfect scholars when they read your writing samples. They are looking for proof that you have the potential to grow into a polished scholar! My writing sample was probably one of the strongest part of my application, but a year and a half into my program, I already feel like the sample no longer represents my writing or research abilities. You want to revise your sample until it's as strong as it can be, but don't fret over the small details. The best sample is one who shows the adcomm what kind of student you are and what kind of scholar you can be. Thanks for the reassurance, proflorax. Like most applicants I'm obsessing over all of the details, but for me I feel like I have to clear additional hurdles: I have had potential advisors mention that my WS had to be "really good" because I didn't major in literature (just looked over my transcript and saw that the last graded lit course I took was like 12 years ago?!) and also because I am leaving a professional career to pursue this---basically, coming from left field. I am fully committed to this enterprise and know that it's not a walk around the park, and I want the committees to give me a fair read and not just dismiss me for potential signs of not having the requisite background. With that, back to the sample I go...thanks for the input everyone Edited December 8, 2014 by fancypants09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karablythe Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Seriously proflorax, thank you for saying that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unræd Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Though I've heard some rather catty rants from Chicago Style evangelists about the supremacy of the footnote and on the atrocities known as in-text citations. In the beginning was the Word.1 __________________________, 1Q84, TeaOverCoffee and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Old Bill Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 I must say, generally speaking I far prefer footnotes over endnotes in a text I'm interested in reading. I hate having to flip (or scroll) to the end every time I come across something that needs explanation. However, if there's .pdf on Blackboard that I'm only reading because I have to, I always have a moment of minor bliss when I see that the final four pages are all endnotes. In terms of style, I think Chicago is superior to MLA, but I've never actually used it personally. Assuming I get in somewhere, that's one of my to-do lists for next summer: gain a comprehensive knowledge of Chicago style. fancypants09 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fancypants09 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Thanks everyone! I've got a few revisions to make in the introduction and the conclusion to finish up on the WS, but otherwise it is looking as good as it will look for now. So glad to be close to finishing this baby...and then on to the SOP I go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__________________________ Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 In terms of style, I think Chicago is superior to MLA, but I've never actually used it personally. Assuming I get in somewhere, that's one of my to-do lists for next summer: gain a comprehensive knowledge of Chicago style. Chicago is way simpler than MLA. The only circumstance I would say it's more of a pain in the ass would be if you're using a typewriter. Which I hope you're not. I think you could look up a brief guide and have it down in like five or ten minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Old Bill Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Chicago is way simpler than MLA. The only circumstance I would say it's more of a pain in the ass would be if you're using a typewriter. Which I hope you're not. What's wrong with using a typewriter? If it was good enough for Steinbeck, it's good enough for me! Besides, I just recently upgraded: I think you could look up a brief guide and have it down in like five or ten minutes. Yeah, I don't know why I made it sound like it would take a lot of time to learn. The trick will be to train myself though, or else I'll invariably start slipping back into MLA habits. Not a bad thing, but if I'm going to do a hybrid MLA / Chicago style, I'd rather do it deliberately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Q84 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Chicago is way simpler than MLA. The only circumstance I would say it's more of a pain in the ass would be if you're using a typewriter. Which I hope you're not. I think you could look up a brief guide and have it down in like five or ten minutes. I had to convert one of my MLA manuscripts to Chicago this past summer. It was painful at first but very rewarding after. I love endnotes now! <sips kool-aid> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilasWegg Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Another thing to keep in mind as we attempt to discern the inner-workings of the adcoms is that they are probably more concerned with your ideas than with the nitty gritty of the WS. For example, if you had a perfectly edited document in chicago style that just retread a bunch of outdated scholarship, chances are you aren't getting any offers. Another thing to consider is the originality of your topic. I would imagine if you submitted a WS that was suited to the department's strengths in an applicant pool that is mostly far afield from departmental interests, it really boosts your chances. I would think demonstrating an engagement with good scholarship and an understanding of the area of the discipline you are writing on far outweighs the "catty" infighting of the documentation wars. Wyatt, I too wrote in a "hybrid" MLA. Maybe if I were working up a journal article or a dissertation I would take up chicago but for applications it hardly seems like it would matter. __________________________ and Dr. Old Bill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhefflol Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Deep breaths, y'all! Just remember: adcomms aren't looking for already polished, perfect scholars when they read your writing samples. They are looking for proof that you have the potential to grow into a polished scholar! Yes, this. I have a quote hanging on my fridge that says, "My ideas are good enough to start." Its a mantra I've grown to repeat to myself when the imposter syndrome kicks in. 1Q84 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hreaðemus Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Ack, I'm just putting the finishing polish on my WS intro and conclusion and it's SO STRESSFUL - they're such tiny details that I feel bad asking my professors to give the OK one more time, and yet they're my hook and final word! My honors professor literally said that if he's not captured by the first and last page of a writing sample HE DOESN'T READ THE REST (and he's on the adcomm! At Berkeley!) *tears hair, crawls under rock* On the bright side, this will all be over soooo soon... deadlines are a blessing as well as a curse! fancypants09 and hypervodka 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fancypants09 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Ack, I'm just putting the finishing polish on my WS intro and conclusion and it's SO STRESSFUL - they're such tiny details that I feel bad asking my professors to give the OK one more time, and yet they're my hook and final word! My honors professor literally said that if he's not captured by the first and last page of a writing sample HE DOESN'T READ THE REST (and he's on the adcomm! At Berkeley!) *tears hair, crawls under rock* On the bright side, this will all be over soooo soon... deadlines are a blessing as well as a curse! I am SO there with you. Revising, finishing up the conclusion...my eyes and brain are super blurred at this point. I told one of my friends who offered to read it for me that I just didn't want to sound like an idiot. As in, I use a very famous theoretical formulation by one of these Theory Bigwigs at one of the schools to which I'm applying, and I don't want to have gotten it wrong... hreaðemus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Old Bill Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 My honors professor literally said that if he's not captured by the first and last page of a writing sample HE DOESN'T READ THE REST (and he's on the adcomm! At Berkeley!) Wow. It sure would have saved me a lot of time if I'd known that only two pages of my WS count. What if the last page just has a couple of sentences? Must they be amazing sentences? Seriously though, I wonder how typical that is. It strikes me as a bit dismissive, really. fancypants09 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fancypants09 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Wow. It sure would have saved me a lot of time if I'd known that only two pages of my WS count. What if the last page just has a couple of sentences? Must they be amazing sentences? Seriously though, I wonder how typical that is. It strikes me as a bit dismissive, really. Not surprised to hear of it, though I'd say we need to remember that the decisions are being made by committees and not by a single professor. And from what I hear of friends who have taken part in the adcomms as student reps, one professor can't hardly sway a candidacy yay or nay unless they happen to be super senior in the department or a world-renowned Big Wig. Deep breaths, all!! Just finished my WS draft (not good, but at least it's done for now) and touching up on the CV. I'll look at it again later on in the week I'm sure, but I just want to be done at this point... Dr. Old Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__________________________ Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 My honors professor literally said that if he's not captured by the first and last page of a writing sample HE DOESN'T READ THE REST (and he's on the adcomm! At Berkeley!) Honestly this doesn't surprise me at all from a Berkeley professor... especially considering how many applications he probably reads every year.... Also, if I were in Berkeley right now, I'm not sure it'd be my school applications that would be the main thing preoccupying me to be honest... hypervodka, fancypants09 and lyonessrampant 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Q84 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 It's usually the case that notes / references / appendices etc. don't count against the page requirement. But it's not always the case. One DGS I contacted mentioned that they wanted no more than fifteen pages total, and pointed out how many papers they have to read etc. I'm guessing a lot of adcomms would have a five-page requirement if they thought they could determine enough about the candidate from such a small size... Argh. Currently in freak out mode as some that I've contacted now have said the latter. Really hoping I can work with the admin to get it replaced with something that falls within guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hreaðemus Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Oh dear. I'm sorry, y'all - I should have realized my comment might strike a sore spot at this time of year. I should clarify: the professor in question is a deeply kind, thoughtful, and compassionate man, and his comment to me was given in the context of critiquing MY writing sample, which he said was very strong except that I was self-effacing - I undermined the actual strength of my work by understating both my stakes and my real contribution to the field in my intro and conclusion. I'm quite sure that saying "I personally, read the first and the last pages first, and if they don't grab me, I don't read the rest of the paper" was his way of motivating me, not demoralizing y'all - and I'm also sure that it was an exaggeration. Please don't take it too seriously! Also, mollifiedmolloy - you're right, there are other, very important things happening in Berkeley... and they are on my mind/in my everyday life as well, of course. But since this is GradCafe, my grad school thoughts are the ones I tend to share... __________________________ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Old Bill Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 Oh dear. I'm sorry, y'all - I should have realized my comment might strike a sore spot at this time of year. Oh no no...not in the least, little Bat! My comment probably needed a .gif. In fact, had I not been posting rather speedily, I would have posted a .gif of Elaine from Seinfeld saying "Get out!" while pushing Jerry (I did a brief, one-minute search and couldn't find anything suitable, alas). In all honesty (detached from the whole "in-the-process" thing), that's not a bad tactic by adcomms anyhow. If you can't grab the reader with the intro and give them something to take away from the reading with the conclusion, you're probably not a good academic writer. Broad statement, I know, but when you think about it, you see it's mostly true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkgraduate Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 In all honesty (detached from the whole "in-the-process" thing), that's not a bad tactic by adcomms anyhow. If you can't grab the reader with the intro and give them something to take away from the reading with the conclusion, you're probably not a good academic writer. Broad statement, I know, but when you think about it, you see it's mostly true... I agree. It sounds sort of brutal at first, but if you think about it, a writer's first job is to keep people reading. If you can't keep the admissions committee reading, how will you keep your colleagues reading later on when you're job hunting? The treasure hidden on page 7 will never be discovered if everyone falls asleep during the introduction. Now, I think I'll go frantically open my writing sample and scrutinize my first page, again... Also, this is my first post after a year of lurking... Hi folks. Dr. Old Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__________________________ Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) Oh dear. I'm sorry, y'all - I should have realized my comment might strike a sore spot at this time of year. I should clarify: the professor in question is a deeply kind, thoughtful, and compassionate man, and his comment to me was given in the context of critiquing MY writing sample, which he said was very strong except that I was self-effacing - I undermined the actual strength of my work by understating both my stakes and my real contribution to the field in my intro and conclusion. I'm quite sure that saying "I personally, read the first and the last pages first, and if they don't grab me, I don't read the rest of the paper" was his way of motivating me, not demoralizing y'all - and I'm also sure that it was an exaggeration. Please don't take it too seriously! Also, mollifiedmolloy - you're right, there are other, very important things happening in Berkeley... and they are on my mind/in my everyday life as well, of course. But since this is GradCafe, my grad school thoughts are the ones I tend to share... The technique is one I would probably use as well... it's also probably a good thing to try on one's own writing to see how well the paper threads together... And I meant no critique of you by the photo. I guess it was my own weird and ineffective way of saying "don't fret the small stuff, there's plenty other things going on rather than a misplaced semicolon or an awkward phrase!" EDIT, to elaborate: I completely identify with this sort of fretting and nitpicking. I also often catch myself obsessing over details and tidbits like the one you mentioned about the professor at the expense of the world outside of graduate applications. I was probably projecting though, and I do apologize if it seemed rude. Maybe there should be a venting thread specifically about how certain recent events might be affecting us emotionally during the application process. Because I'm freaking out. Like, can't even bring myself to look seriously at my apps anymore. Edited December 9, 2014 by mollifiedmolloy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Old Bill Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) Maybe there should be a venting thread specifically about how certain recent events might be affecting us emotionally during the application process. Because I'm freaking out. Like, can't even bring myself to look seriously at my apps anymore. Go for it! My only caveat is that you probably shouldn't get too belligerent or specific in your venting, as you never know if an adcomm member will be reading. I make a point of tacitly imagining that anything I write on the Internet could be read by anyone, anywhere, at any time. Not as an ego-stroke, but as a way of remaining civil. I'm very bad at being "political," so I just keep everything open and honest, but slightly discretionary...just in case. Then again, I've probably posted more than anyone else here over the past six months, so I'm probably screwed anyway. P.S.: Welcome, Inkgraduate! Edited December 9, 2014 by Wyatt's Torch __________________________ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypervodka Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) For the record, though, I have actually been talking to a POI about certain Recent Events, because one of her newer books talks a lot about the somatic semantics of pain. (I, too, am bad at being "political," but only in the way that I can't shut up about it.) ETA: What I'm trying to say is that people are talking about it, people care, and that I've switched to thinking about my applications in terms of those R. E.s, if only to make my applications seem more... sensible/sensitive. Edited December 10, 2014 by hypervodka __________________________ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfLorax Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Maybe there should be a venting thread specifically about how certain recent events might be affecting us emotionally during the application process. Because I'm freaking out. Like, can't even bring myself to look seriously at my apps anymore. MM: you are not alone. Those of us who are justice-minded in academia have been talking about police brutality, racism, and protests outside of classrooms, in the halls, before and after departmental events, on Facebook, etc. And oftentimes, this trauma, sadness, frustration, and fear make us question why we are even doing what we are. Like, why the hell we are in seminar right now discussing book history when people are putting their bodies and lives on the line for justice? There have been some blog posts floating around by grad students of color who feel increasingly cynical and disconnected about academia right now. I have been questioning how I can participate in this emerging movement despite my time and physical limitations (my partner talked me out of attending the latest protests in DC because I am a week out from my due date). How can I support the movement on social media? How can I incorporate these conversations in my classroom in a way that doesn't re-traumatize my students of color? How can I support my colleagues of color? How can I write about my research (on activist rhetoric, actually) in an accessible way that adds to the larger conversation? How can I, in the future, make more time in my schedule for getting on the streets and supporting the events my ugrad students are organizing on police brutality, campus sexual assault, etc? These are questions I've been wrestling with, alongside my classmates, as we attempt to process, understand, and respond the events that are unfolding across the nation. lyonessrampant and __________________________ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__________________________ Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 For the record, though, I have actually been talking to a POI about certain Recent Events, because one of her newer books talks a lot about the somatic semantics of pain. (I, too, am bad at being "political," but only in the way that I can't shut up about it.) ETA: What I'm trying to say is that people are talking about it, people care, and that I've switched to thinking about my applications in terms of those R. E.s, if only to make my applications seem more... sensible/sensitive. I have been questioning how I can participate in this emerging movement despite my time and physical limitations (my partner talked me out of attending the latest protests in DC because I am a week out from my due date). How can I support the movement on social media? How can I incorporate these conversations in my classroom in a way that doesn't re-traumatize my students of color? How can I support my colleagues of color? How can I write about my research (on activist rhetoric, actually) in an accessible way that adds to the larger conversation? How can I, in the future, make more time in my schedule for getting on the streets and supporting the events my ugrad students are organizing on police brutality, campus sexual assault, etc? These are questions I've been wrestling with, alongside my classmates, as we attempt to process, understand, and respond the events that are unfolding across the nation. I created thread for this type of discussion if anyone's interested. I hope not to distract this thread from it's intended purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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