what are your writing sample topics?

[kant_get_in]

There was a discussion on another thread about the dangers of writing on "hot topics" (e.g. Street's Darwinian Dilemma). That might be part of the reason.

 

The other part is probably because, surprisingly enough, a lot of departments don't have many courses dealing with contemporary issues, and writing samples often come from your favourite courses.

Can you link to that discussion? 

[overoverover]

Can you link to that discussion? 

 

I think it's found in the advice thread pinned at the top of the forum.

[Peeping Thomist]

I'm currently getting consultation from my professors about whether I should be using a paper on the concept of Divine Command Theory in Kierkegaard or my paper on Christian reproductive ethics in response to David Benatar's antinatalism. 

[The Pedanticist]

I'm currently getting consultation from my professors about whether I should be using a paper on the concept of Divine Command Theory in Kierkegaard or my paper on Christian reproductive ethics in response to David Benatar's antinatalism. 

 

You may want to use separate samples for at least a couple of different places.  I know Fordham really like Kierkegaard.  However, Georgetown might prefer the one on reproductive ethics since they are major in applied religious ethics.  If you are interested in philosophical theology and Kierkegaard you might want to check out Baylor.  They have a ton of scholars who work in Kierkegaard.      

[Nastasya_Filippovna]

ok does anybody know how hard and fast the rules are when it comes to writing sample LENGTH- for example, when they say 5,000 words, does that mean they will become apoplectic if the sample would be- hmmm, 7,000 words? Any phd students care to provide insight?

[dgswaim]

ok does anybody know how hard and fast the rules are when it comes to writing sample LENGTH- for example, when they say 5,000 words, does that mean they will become apoplectic if the sample would be- hmmm, 7,000 words? Any phd students care to provide insight?

Last time 'round, I emailed several departments and asked if I should send my full sample (which was over their particular page limit), or instead send some section of it in order to meet the stated requirement. In each case they asked that I go ahead and send the full paper. Just my experience, so generalize with caution.

[NathanKellen]

ok does anybody know how hard and fast the rules are when it comes to writing sample LENGTH- for example, when they say 5,000 words, does that mean they will become apoplectic if the sample would be- hmmm, 7,000 words? Any phd students care to provide insight?

I sat in on a placement meeting last night where the professors mentioned that, in applying for jobs, sending very large writing samples is looked down upon seriously because it is disrespectful to those who have to read them.

 

Now job applications differ from grad applications of course, but I think it's going to be a similar response from at least some people. And thus it's not worth the risk.

[The Pedanticist]

The difficulty I'm running into is that I will be using a part of my thesis, which necessarily make things more difficult.  I've started splitting my chapters up into separate papers, but that has its own problems.

[Nastasya_Filippovna]

The difficulty I'm running into is that I will be using a part of my thesis, which necessarily make things more difficult.  I've started splitting my chapters up into separate papers, but that has its own problems.

precisely my problem!! I have my thesis divided into sections, and while the most salient part will suffice for the 5k requirement, it just breaks my heart to part with two more small sections that I really want to include with EVERY writing sample I submit- in other words, a 7k writing sample is what would be, for me, the minimum for genuinely appreciating the argument. I'm afraid that I'm just going to have to compromise more than I like, which is hard for me, because I'm greedy If only they all asked for 20 page samples

[overoverover]

precisely my problem!! I have my thesis divided into sections, and while the most salient part will suffice for the 5k requirement, it just breaks my heart to part with two more small sections that I really want to include with EVERY writing sample I submit- in other words, a 7k writing sample is what would be, for me, the minimum for genuinely appreciating the argument. I'm afraid that I'm just going to have to compromise more than I like, which is hard for me, because I'm greedy If only they all asked for 20 page samples

 

At least a lot of the schools I'm applying to asked for 20 page samples! I'm at about 7k words, and that's about 17 pages (LaTeX single-spaced). I asked a few professor if they thought I should shorten it for some schools which ask specifically for 10-12 page samples, and all of them said (quite emphatically) no. 

UK programs, however, are a different beast. A lot ask for multiple writing samples, and some have a cap of 4k words—which would of course make my 7k sample much too long. It's the main reason I'm not applying to St. Andrews: I thought I had a good sample at 7k words, and I don't think I have anything as strong in the 4k range. 

NathanKellen makes an excellent point, though—it could be seen as disrespectful/rude to send a sample longer than the page/word limit. I imagine there's a little bit of slack in everybody's minds, but that isn't guaranteed. 

Edited September 12, 2014 by overoverover

[reixis]

If you don't feel like removing parts of your sample, it might be a good idea to insert a short abstract and indicate pages that may be skipped. My sample has 25 pages and it has an abstract and a note indicating 3 pages that may be skipped. 

[jjb919]

precisely my problem!! I have my thesis divided into sections, and while the most salient part will suffice for the 5k requirement, it just breaks my heart to part with two more small sections that I really want to include with EVERY writing sample I submit- in other words, a 7k writing sample is what would be, for me, the minimum for genuinely appreciating the argument. I'm afraid that I'm just going to have to compromise more than I like, which is hard for me, because I'm greedy If only they all asked for 20 page samples

I'm doing the same thing. And while my writing sample is currently slightly over the stated limit of some schools I am applying to, I don't think it is egregiously so. Cutting down your thesis is a really good exercise; it helps train a good editorial eye that will be very useful in identifying the truly insightful parts of your work and separating the wheat from the chaff. So far I have cut my MA thesis in half and have come to realize (with the help of my advisers and other readers) that much of it was expository and actually hid my own voice and contributions. I'm currently just over 22 pages and am waiting to hear back from peer reviewers at a professional journal. If I get any comments I will hopefully be able to make it stronger and maybe even more streamlined (i.e. shorter) for when I apply next year. As much as I chafed at the the idea of not applying this year, delaying another year does have its benefits and I will have plenty of time to work on my writing sample as well as a couple of other papers in the works.

 

I don't know the details of your writing sample, but generally speaking I think it's true that if we take a real objective look at our work and are willing to part with certain things that may not directly serve the thesis of the paper--even if we really like their flourish, nuance, or driving point--we come out with a much stronger paper.

[overoverover]

If you don't feel like removing parts of your sample, it might be a good idea to insert a short abstract and indicate pages that may be skipped. My sample has 25 pages and it has an abstract and a note indicating 3 pages that may be skipped. 

If you can skip 3 entire pages, why not just remove them?

[reixis]

If you can skip 3 entire pages, why not just remove them?

 

These 3 pages are a clarification of a very specific point. It doesn’t have any substantial impact on the overall argument, but I think it is worth leaving it up since it might help solving some eventual suspicion about my argument.

 

I just thought it was a good idea to maintain that part (it’s only 3 pages after all) and leave it up to adcoms to decide whether they will dedicate attention to that part.

Edited September 12, 2014 by reixis

[Nastasya_Filippovna]

At least a lot of the schools I'm applying to asked for 20 page samples! I'm at about 7k words, and that's about 17 pages (LaTeX single-spaced). I asked a few professor if they thought I should shorten it for some schools which ask specifically for 10-12 page samples, and all of them said (quite emphatically) no. 

UK programs, however, are a different beast. A lot ask for multiple writing samples, and some have a cap of 4k words—which would of course make my 7k sample much too long. It's the main reason I'm not applying to St. Andrews: I thought I had a good sample at 7k words, and I don't think I have anything as strong in the 4k range. 

NathanKellen makes an excellent point, though—it could be seen as disrespectful/rude to send a sample longer than the page/word limit. I imagine there's a little bit of slack in everybody's minds, but that isn't guaranteed. 

that's interesting that your professors responded with an emphatic NO at your question- I thought they would advise you to the contrary given that I heard likewise that adcoms get offended when provided with samples significantly longer than requested! Just personally I feel that if a 7k sample is your pinnacle work it is a shame you have to provide a longer sample to schools that require more (just as I feel it's a pity that a fine piece of work needs to be significantly edited when a smaller sample is requested). I am sending a shortened version of my thesis (29pgs), but only designating which sections to read depending on the required length. For the 15p or 5k, I'm only picking sections that equate these qualifications, although admittedly they amount to about 17pgs/ 5600 words, but I just refuse to quibble

[The Pedanticist]

Leiter has an interesting post, with even more interesting comments, on writing samples.  http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2011/08/choosing-a-writing-sample-to-submit-with-grad-school-applications.html

 

 I found the last comment by Alistor Norcross (of Colorado) the most enlightening.  

 

 

I have been on admissions committees at two different programs (Rice and Colorado), so I can share my experience on them. Other places may operate differently. First, as regards the size of the committee, both programs have about six members of the admissions committee each year. At Rice, this was about 50% of the faculty. At Colorado, under 25%. This means that, if you are submitting a particular paper because you think a particular faculty member will be interested in it, there is far more than an "off chance" that they won't even be on the committee, let alone be the person assigned to your file. So, echoing other advice, I recommend sending a paper that best shows your strengths as a philosopher, and is accessible to well-trained philosophers of all specialties.

 

Second, as regards sending two different samples to the same place, I would advise against it. Almost certainly, only one will get read, and, again, almost certainly, it will be the shorter one. Many programs get several hundred applications a year. The last time I was on the admissions committee at Colorado, I had over 40 applications to read as a first cut.

 

This brings me to my third point, length. I know that wasn't a topic of the original post, but allow me to give my advice on it anyway. You obviously want to send a paper that's long enough to demonstrate your ability, so unless you're Gettier, that means more than three or four pages. But you should be able to show what you're capable of in fewer than thirty pages. Remember, most professional conferences, including the APA, have about a 3000 word limit. I've seen plenty of impressive philosophy at APA colloquium sessions. You don't have to limit yourself to 3000 words, but I wouldn't go over 5000 words (about 17 pages), if you can help it. A shorter paper will get a more careful read. If you have written an honors thesis, or a master's thesis, of which you are particularly proud, don't, whatever you do, send the whole thing. Select the best standalone bit under 20 pages, and send that. If there isn't a standalone bit under 20 pages, come up with a completely different writing sample.

 

Last, at Rice and Colorado (and many other places, I gather from talking to friends) the writing sample is far and away the most important part of your application. Almost everyone is some professor's "best ever" student. GRE scores really only matter when they're very bad or, perhaps, outstandingly good (pretty much perfect scores), except to university-wide fellowship committees. There's not much you can do about your GPA at this point. Your cover letter probably won't be read very carefully, and, even if it is, there's not much you can say to make yourself stand out (anyone can look up the department on the web and say that they're really enthusiastic about working with professors X, Y and Z who do really outstanding work). In my experience, almost all the arguing about whom we should make initial offers to, and where on the wait list to rank the others, has concerned the writing samples

Edited September 14, 2014 by The Pedanticist

[MorganFreemanlives]

hey guys, im curious about something.

 

what your general approach as far citations for writing samples go? do you already have in mind or by your desk, or on a document most of the works you know will cite before tackling your first draft? or do you first sketch something and cite hunt along the way? do you have in mind some approx ratio of number of pages to amount of references? in my institution, while most professors required citations, they were more of a formality, so it was never my focus, but now i must be more weary of their use.

 

i was looking at undergrag's sample paper on hume which got him to all  the T10 and i noticed extensive use of citations, and his use of them is no doubt superb but i must confess slightly intimidating. also many works which i consider not so great are overly bloated with references that sometimes border on bragging about the size of  reference page, and often feel like they are lacking substance (im NOT referencing underdrag in any way here ). this will of course also depend on prior literature on the topic and whether the work is historical or not.

 

 

so what is the consensus of the best approach?

Edited September 17, 2014 by HegelHatingHegelian

[overoverover]

hey guys, im curious about something.

 

what your general approach as far citations for writing samples go? do you already have in mind or by your desk, or on a document most of the works you know will cite before tackling your first draft? or do you first sketch something and cite hunt along the way? do you have in mind some approx ratio of number of pages to amount of references? in my institution, while most professors required citations, they were more of a formality, so it was never my focus, but now i must be more weary of their use.

 

i was looking at undergrag's sample paper on hume which got him to all  the T10 and i noticed extensive use of citations, and his use of them is no doubt superb but i must confess slightly intimidating. also many works which i consider not so great are overly bloated with references that sometimes border on bragging about the size of  reference page, and often feel like they are lacking substance (im NOT referencing underdrag in any way here ). this will of course also depend on prior literature on the topic and whether the work is historical or not.

 

 

so what is the consensus of the best approach?

I had about 75% of my citations figured out before I wrote. Others were added when they became relevant, though I had read all but one or two beforehand. 

[Infinite Zest]

hey guys, im curious about something.

 

what your general approach as far citations for writing samples go? do you already have in mind or by your desk, or on a document most of the works you know will cite before tackling your first draft? or do you first sketch something and cite hunt along the way? do you have in mind some approx ratio of number of pages to amount of references? in my institution, while most professors required citations, they were more of a formality, so it was never my focus, but now i must be more weary of their use.

 

i was looking at undergrag's sample paper on hume which got him to all  the T10 and i noticed extensive use of citations, and his use of them is no doubt superb but i must confess slightly intimidating. also many works which i consider not so great are overly bloated with references that sometimes border on bragging about the size of  reference page, and often feel like they are lacking substance (im NOT referencing underdrag in any way here ). this will of course also depend on prior literature on the topic and whether the work is historical or not.

 

 

so what is the consensus of the best approach?

 

I did all of my research before writing my philosophy honors thesis. This amounted to something along the lines of ~50 citations. That beings said, I've cut down the honors thesis into a writing sample, and I now have ~35 citations in the paper.

 

I think that a good number of citations can *hint* a few things:

 

a.) You've taken the time to understand the topic of your writing sample incredibly well.

b.) You can make general arguments; in other words, you can argue against a view held by several philosophers, not just one philosopher's idiosyncratic point.

c.) You know how to do substantial independent research.

d.) You are aiming to do professional academic work.

 

Furthermore, I think merely reading ~50 papers on the topic of your writing sample reduces the chances that you'll make an unoriginal argument and increases the chances that you'll say something substantial.

 

Personally, I feel that my writing sample would have been shabby if I didn't spend a few months doing intense research on the topic, but maybe that's just my way of doing things.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Infinite Zest

[hrmk]

I am not sure if it is appropriate to write here though, I have a problem about a writing sample.

I am not a native English speaker and  applied MA.

 

Since I have been asked from the university to submit a 3000 words writing sample for their final decision as soon as possible, I got nervous.

I have not written such a long essay in English.

Does anybody know how to make a structure to write such a long essay??

I am happy if anybody tell me.

[Infinite Zest]

I am not sure if it is appropriate to write here though, I have a problem about a writing sample.

I am not a native English speaker and  applied MA.

 

Since I have been asked from the university to submit a 3000 words writing sample for their final decision as soon as possible, I got nervous.

I have not written such a long essay in English.

Does anybody know how to make a structure to write such a long essay??

I am happy if anybody tell me.

 

I would try to get feedback from a native English speaker, preferably an academic. Also, take the time to do research and structure your thoughts before you begin writing.