Fit, fit, and more fit

[cacao to cacao]

So I was one of those that started out with a list of 18 programs that I thought I might want to apply to...

 

Chopped it down to 12 programs based on geography.

Got it down to 8 based on program fit with my career goals.

Looked into faculty research interests and got it further down to 5 programs.

 

I emailed around 3 faculty (PoIs) from each of the 5 schools for short informational interviews.

With a 50% response rate, I was able to get on the phone with 3 schools.

 

Results:

 

School A - not a good fit with faculty (personalities or research interests)

School B - faculty research interests are nearly identical with my own, lots of doors for future career advancement (already tons of experience in the field)

School C - personalities, research interests, and interesting opportunities for research. Overall, great vibes about the program, faculty, and current doctoral students.  

 

Now, I'm down to only 2 schools (Schools B and C).... did I narrow down my list too much?

 

People say there is no such thing as a safety school.. and that you should only apply to programs where you know you have a great fit.

 

So I did my homework and hoped to come up with around 4 to 6 programs. But I only came up with 2. Should I be freaking out? I feel really confident about these two, but I don't want to be a fool come next spring and find that neither of my 2 eggs have hatched. 

 

Quality over quantity?

I guess I'd rather devote my time and resources to submitting amazing applications to these 2 programs than stretching myself thin applying to 4 other programs that would kind of be a stretch anyway... right? 

 

one or two safety schools at this point sounds mighty tempting... somebody stop me!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bsharpe269]

I dont think you should apply to safeties but it sounds like you may have not gone about this process quite the right way.

 

For example, one of your last steps says "Looked into faculty research interests and got it further down to 5 programs."

 

I think that this should be step 1. Here is how I narrowed down schools, in case another perspective helps. I started with my research interests and looked up the few biggest conferences in my field. You see the same few names repeated over and over every year in those. From that, I had 5-10 big shot professors in my field. I looked at the schools they are at to see whether there are other professors at those same schools who I could also be interested in. I read publications of the big professors to see who they cite and who they publish with. I looked for their students who are now professors. From this method, I came up with 13 schools that seem to be the hot spots for my research and took 2 off based on location. That leaves me with 11. I might take a couple more off as I am reading publications in more detail. I also had my PI go through my list and give advice. At least half of the schools on my list are not schools that I would have ever found otherwise, based on rankings of just places I have heard much about. They are all top schools in my subfield though due to the strong PIs there.

 

How did you get that initial list of 18? I think that you should get that list based on research but it sounds like that step came in much later. It sounds like you know which of those 18 schools you would be interested in but I bet there are schools that were never on that top 18 list that might be amaazing research fits.

Edited September 22, 2014 by bsharpe269

[Gvh]

Cacao, I definitely know where you're coming from - after much painstaking research, I had whittled my list down to 6 programs; 1 PI, unfortunately, was not taking students, so now I am at 5. Honestly, if I only wanted to apply to 2, I have a very clear idea as to which 2 I would select - though I am going to keep my options "open" even if my last choice would not be ideal. I think bsharpe gives some good advice in reading papers, seeing who is who, etc. Though I do also understand that if you have very specific interests or need very specific technologies to answer your research questions (as in my case), I can see why it can be hard to find a solid 7-10 schools that are great fits AND are in good locations, etc. 

 

I agree with quality over quantity, but you also don't want to limit your options too much. It's a delicate balance. However, if you do decide to go for it with only 2 institutions, perhaps have a plan B in case this cycle doesn't work out.

[GeoDUDE!]

You should apply to every school where you are very interested in doing research and then make decisions based on where you might want to go after you get acceptances.  

 

Location, personalities, and prestige should come after you got an acceptance. Research should be the list you start out with. 

[Vene]

I don't think I would go with only two schools, that strikes me as way too specialized of a research goal, interests change over time. If nothing else when I applied I made sure that I could take full advantage of being able to send out 4 scores for free.

 

But, I do know that I come at this from a little different of a perspective because I believe personality is more important than the exact research topic. In my experience in industrial research the exact subject you're studying can vary quite tremendously and since I don't believe I'll work in academia after graduate school I'm telling myself that if I'm too focused on one subfield of a subfield I'll never accomplish anything on a professional level.

[geographyrocks]

I feel your pain as I narrowed down my schools the exact same way. However, geography was very important to me while it isn't to most people. So I was comfortable in dropping amazing schools from my list based on geography alone because I had reasons that were important to me.

I was down to two schools as well (which just so happened to be the two that accepted me). So I went back through and considered all the schools that I may have arbitrarily cast off. Some stayed on the no list, but I was able to add two additional schools. The research fit was stretched, but I thought it was close enough.

This is my personal anecdote so you should take it as such, but I actually disagree with what others have said (especially if money is tight). Apply to places you are excited about.

UNLESS you want to go to graduate school more than you care for the environment you will be in. It's different for everyone.

[TakeruK]

Normally I agree that using research first to narrow down schools is a good idea, but if you are limited to a certain geographical area, then it makes way more sense to start with only those schools. The fact that a school outside of this area is the #1 research fit for you is irrelevant when you are limited to a geographical area. 

 

I think the OP did a good job of narrowing down the schools. I think it's not surprising that only 2 out of 12 programs in your limited area turned out to be perfect fits in all ways. My advice for the next step depends on how much you want to go to grad school (vs. other interests):

 

1. If you want to make sure you attend any grad school, even if it's not perfect in every way, then I would rank all 12 schools in order and apply far down that list as you are willing to attend.

 

2. If you only want to attend schools that are 100% perfect for you, and you would be happy pursuing other interests if you don't get in, then just apply to those two.

 

Personally, I would lean towards option 1 and apply to a few more schools that might not appear like good fits for now, but this might change when you get an offer and have a chance to talk to people in person. In my opinion, what you did was a good start to determine fit but it's not really a fair sample of what the professors are actually like (some people, like me, are terrible at talking on the phone). 

[Vene]

It's different for everyone.

I think this is one of the great truths of the universe. There's the conventional wisdom to apply based just on academic fit and ignore all else, but not everybody has the same priorities and a perfect university for one individual is awful for another (ex. if you're married and your spouse is dead set against living in small town don't apply to Dartmouth if you value your marriage).

 

Normally I agree that using research first to narrow down schools is a good idea, but if you are limited to a certain geographical area, then it makes way more sense to start with only those schools. The fact that a school outside of this area is the #1 research fit for you is irrelevant when you are limited to a geographical area. 

 

I think the OP did a good job of narrowing down the schools. I think it's not surprising that only 2 out of 12 programs in your limited area turned out to be perfect fits in all ways. My advice for the next step depends on how much you want to go to grad school (vs. other interests):

 

1. If you want to make sure you attend any grad school, even if it's not perfect in every way, then I would rank all 12 schools in order and apply far down that list as you are willing to attend.

 

2. If you only want to attend schools that are 100% perfect for you, and you would be happy pursuing other interests if you don't get in, then just apply to those two.

 

Personally, I would lean towards option 1 and apply to a few more schools that might not appear like good fits for now, but this might change when you get an offer and have a chance to talk to people in person. In my opinion, what you did was a good start to determine fit but it's not really a fair sample of what the professors are actually like (some people, like me, are terrible at talking on the phone). 

I like your option 1, personally, there's nothing like actually going for the interview to see how you feel about a program. My preferences certainly changed after I visited the universities and spoke to faculty and graduate students.

[cacao to cacao]

thank you everyone for the feedback! looks like I have a bit more digging to do.

 

 

 

How did you get that initial list of 18? 

the 18 in the original list included the top 10 schools in my field. Unsurprisingly, less than half of those (only 4) made it through to the next round.

 

 

I agree with quality over quantity, but you also don't want to limit your options too much. It's a delicate balance. However, if you do decide to go for it with only 2 institutions, perhaps have a plan B in case this cycle doesn't work out.

 

1. If you want to make sure you attend any grad school, even if it's not perfect in every way, then I would rank all 12 schools in order and apply far down that list as you are willing to attend.

...

Personally, I would lean towards option 1 and apply to a few more schools that might not appear like good fits for now, but this might change when you get an offer and have a chance to talk to people in person. In my opinion, what you did was a good start to determine fit but it's not really a fair sample of what the professors are actually like (some people, like me, are terrible at talking on the phone). 

 

I am open to my research topic changing a little bit -- not A LOT, but there is some wiggle room. I will continue digging into the top 12 on my list to see if there are a couple programs I would be open to considering if accepted. There were definitely at least 2 other programs that could work. It makes me uncomfortable just thinking about it, but I figure the sooner I confront the possibility of my research topic(s) changing, the better off I will be once I'm actually in the program.

 

These schools are on the other side of the country on the west coast, so I won't be able to meet with faculty and graduate students in person before I submit my applications. I do REALLY WELL with in-person interviews, too. But such as life - we have email, and we have telephones. Gotta use what I got... and my intuition too. 

 

As for Plan B, I would continue working in my current position which keeps me close to research, refines my project management skills, and exposes me to the new tools of interest in the field. No loss if I don't get in this round -- I definitely won't mind being a well-seasoned cat come Fall 2016.

 

 

I feel your pain as I narrowed down my schools the exact same way. However, geography was very important to me while it isn't to most people. So I was comfortable in dropping amazing schools from my list based on geography alone because I had reasons that were important to me.

Normally I agree that using research first to narrow down schools is a good idea, but if you are limited to a certain geographical area, then it makes way more sense to start with only those schools. The fact that a school outside of this area is the #1 research fit for you is irrelevant when you are limited to a geographical area. 

Yup, thank you for empathizing with me on this point. Geography is a non-negotiable. Clear pros and cons here. 

 

 

 

for those still lining up information interviews with PIs, here are a few reminder tips about speaking to your PIs on the phone:

 

1. If it's the first call, be ready to present your burning question (limit this to one or two sentences) and finish the statement within 20 seconds. Had to force myself to stop rambling a few times. 

2. Ask them high-quality, thoughtful questions about their research. Then, Wow them with follow-up questions.

3. Stay within the allotted time for the call & be respectful of their time. 

[TakeruK]

I ended up visiting 3 of the schools I had to choose from. I also want to say that a lot of my initial impressions and thoughts about 2 of these schools really changed after the visit (one was much better than I thought and one was much worse!) This is even with talking to profs / students before applying. I think physically going there and visiting is a good idea and in general, worth the extra $100 or so per school to make your list 4-6 schools instead of just 2.

 

Also, if you are flying across the country, that could easily be a $1000 or so trip next spring. Some schools only reimburse $300 or so for invited visits. So, a fringe benefit of visiting more schools (in addition to the most important one of seeing what it's really like in person), is that if you visit 4 schools all in one week that reimburse $300 each, you can do so without any out of pocket costs (but if you only visit 2 you might still be paying a bit).

[jujubea]

@ geographyrocks: it was good to hear from someone else who has a geographic limitation.. it's just something I haven't seen a lot of.  Looks like I'm limited to a similar area that you were, as all my schools are NM, CA, and CO.  Not a bad place to be limited to!  I'm super lucky too because some of the best programs in the whole country for my major are in these states.

 

@ Cacao: I am no expert, but I wouldn't freak out too much about narrowing your list down.  Granted, it would feel pretty crappy to be rejected by the only two schools you settled on.  I agree with an earlier poster that research interests and faculty fit should be the first thing you use to find schools (or in my case, the second thing after location).  I started with as big a net I could, and after a year, my list is now down to 4 schools, NONE of which are even remotely "safety" schools.  I genuinely, really, truly want to go to each of them, because the research going on at each place looks both broad enough to expand my horizons, and specific enough to already match my existing interests.  My next step is going to actually visit the campuses and meet a few of the key faculty I'm interested in working with.  Are you able to do that at all?

 

Initially I was worried about the list being down to four, but I have become comfortable with it - but being comfortable with that smallish number includes knowing that my chances of getting accepted and getting a TA-ship (a requirement for me) become limited, too.

[cacao to cacao]

Also, if you are flying across the country, that could easily be a $1000 or so trip next spring. Some schools only reimburse $300 or so for invited visits. So, a fringe benefit of visiting more schools (in addition to the most important one of seeing what it's really like in person), is that if you visit 4 schools all in one week that reimburse $300 each, you can do so without any out of pocket costs (but if you only visit 2 you might still be paying a bit).

 

Thanks for the heads up TakeruK. It is likely I will be able to stack reimbursements if they are available from these schools! But since this would not be an "official" visit (I'm going to visit to check out the program myself and -- not because they invited me) I question whether or not these associated costs will be eligible for reimbursement. Probably not, right? 

 

 

 

My next step is going to actually visit the campuses and meet a few of the key faculty I'm interested in working with.  Are you able to do that at all?

 

Initially I was worried about the list being down to four, but I have become comfortable with it - but being comfortable with that smallish number includes knowing that my chances of getting accepted and getting a TA-ship (a requirement for me) become limited, too.

 

Hi jujubea. I would love to visit the campuses but I am on the east coast. All of these programs are on the west coast.

 

BUT - by opening up my research interests just a little bit, I was able to expand my list to 8 schools. Refining my research interests also gave me a better perspective to tell a more effective and cohesive story in my SOP! I feel so much better now. 

[Vene]

Cacao to Cacao, what discipline are you looking to go into? I do doubt that you'll get any reimbursement for an unofficial visit, but for any potential interviews you may want to ask a question in the appropriate subforum here as to how recruitment weekends are typically handled. I can say that with my personal experience the programs which interviewed me completely covered any travel costs (they provided plane tickets), they booked a hotel room, and provided reimbursement forms for any other expenses along the way (taxis, meals, etc). But, such will vary from field to field and likely even university to university.

[cacao to cacao]

what discipline are you looking to go into? I do doubt that you'll get any reimbursement for an unofficial visit, but for any potential interviews you may want to ask a question in the appropriate subforum here as to how recruitment weekends are typically handled. 

 

Ah yes, we will most definitely cross that bridge once we get there 

[TakeruK]

Thanks for the heads up TakeruK. It is likely I will be able to stack reimbursements if they are available from these schools! But since this would not be an "official" visit (I'm going to visit to check out the program myself and -- not because they invited me) I question whether or not these associated costs will be eligible for reimbursement. Probably not, right? 

 

Do you mean you want to visit the schools in person before you apply? If so, then it is unlikely any costs will be reimbursed. I would not recommend this because you get almost no useful information from this type of visit for how much it would cost you out of pocket. At best, you will just be told a bunch of things like "If you are accepted, then blah blah" and at worst, people won't be inclined to free up their schedule to talk to you since you're not admitted yet. There's nothing you can gain from a pre-application visit that you can't also get from a post-admittance visit. One of the most useful aspects of these visits is setting up potential research projects with the profs, getting to know some of your POIs and learning information about the dept/school/profs from the grad students themselves. It's easier to do all this when you already have an offer.

 

On the other hand, if you mean post-acceptance visits, then it would be really likely for you to get reimbursed (at least in my field). The ideal time to visit is during their official invited open house/visit dates but really only because you can meet other prospective students and they might have extra fun stuff planned to recruit you. But most schools/programs in my field will reimburse you if you ask to visit at a different time due to scheduling issues or whatever. I visited my top choice school during their visit weekend and then planned the other school visits around that, asking to visit on a different day where necessary.

[cacao to cacao]

Do you mean you want to visit the schools in person before you apply? If so, then it is unlikely any costs will be reimbursed. I would not recommend this because you get almost no useful information from this type of visit for how much it would cost you out of pocket. At best, you will just be told a bunch of things like "If you are accepted, then blah blah" and at worst, people won't be inclined to free up their schedule to talk to you since you're not admitted yet. There's nothing you can gain from a pre-application visit that you can't also get from a post-admittance visit. One of the most useful aspects of these visits is setting up potential research projects with the profs, getting to know some of your POIs and learning information about the dept/school/profs from the grad students themselves. It's easier to do all this when you already have an offer.

 

On the other hand, if you mean post-acceptance visits, then it would be really likely for you to get reimbursed (at least in my field). The ideal time to visit is during their official invited open house/visit dates but really only because you can meet other prospective students and they might have extra fun stuff planned to recruit you. But most schools/programs in my field will reimburse you if you ask to visit at a different time due to scheduling issues or whatever. I visited my top choice school during their visit weekend and then planned the other school visits around that, asking to visit on a different day where necessary.

 

re: pre-application & post-acceptance visits

 

As a result of informational phone interviews, a good handful of faculty encouraged me to visit the school post-application & pre-acceptance so I that can meet them along with other affiliated faculty. I understand there is a formal interview timeline built within in the decision phases of the process. But this is not that. At this point, we are nowhere near decision time. At the end of the day, if certain faculty want me to visit their school, who am I to not take them up on their offers to meet in person, to chat, and get to know each other?

[bsharpe269]

re: pre-application & post-acceptance visits

 

As a result of informational phone interviews, a good handful of faculty encouraged me to visit the school post-application & pre-acceptance so I that can meet them along with other affiliated faculty. I understand there is a formal interview timeline built within in the decision phases of the process. But this is not that. At this point, we are nowhere near decision time. At the end of the day, if certain faculty want me to visit their school, who am I to not take them up on their offers to meet in person, to chat, and get to know each other?

 

 

If you live within driving distance (so a few hours) then I say go for it. I would definitely not consider buying plane tickets and booking hotel rooms for something like this though. I think this could even back fire and come off as desperate to get in. They set up these weekends for this reason exactly... so that you can meet professors to see how you fit. There would be little purpose is doing this twice.

[TakeruK]

re: pre-application & post-acceptance visits

 

As a result of informational phone interviews, a good handful of faculty encouraged me to visit the school post-application & pre-acceptance so I that can meet them along with other affiliated faculty. I understand there is a formal interview timeline built within in the decision phases of the process. But this is not that. At this point, we are nowhere near decision time. At the end of the day, if certain faculty want me to visit their school, who am I to not take them up on their offers to meet in person, to chat, and get to know each other?

 

I agree with bsharpe--sometimes professors extend invitations without really thinking about the cost (in time and money) for applicants to visit, or they are just extending it in case you are in the area. In my opinion, you can tell when a professor is serious about wanting to meet with you when they also offer to reimburse your travel expenses. Sometimes they don't say this up front, so I think one good way to inquire about it without directly asking for money is something like:

 

"Thank you for the offer to visit your school. Although I appreciate your invitation, a trip out to the west coast at this point is beyond my budget."

 

If you want, you could add some sentence about being happy to visit if you get an interview or admission offer though. 

 

I realise that I don't really know what field you are in. Almost all of the above was written from the point of view of someone in the physical sciences, where schools will pay for (at least some) travel costs related to recruitment weekends and even interview visits (although most programs will prefer to interview via skype or telephone to save money). I guess it's possible that you are in a field where it's the norm to expect students to absorb costs related to admission, so then the above advice might not be as applicable. But in the sciences, the only cost you should expect to pay are the application fees, transcript fees and test scores. 

[cacao to cacao]

I see you what you (takeruk & bsharpe) both mean. I definitely don't want to come off as desperate. I have the ability to budget for a week-long visit to the west coast. But I can also see why it is also a good idea to wait for the recruitment weekend. Who knows --? If I decide to not visit campuses, I will still find ways to enjoy myself hanging out with friends and family. 

[jujubea]

Oh boy, where have I been getting my information? I could swear I read somewhere that it's wise to go visit the school and the area first to see if you'd even be OK with living there, and whether the school is what you expected.

 

I have a geographic bias though - I can only go to places that aren't too far from where my family and I currently live, and while these schools are definitely not "few hour" drives away, they're also not far enough away to need plane tickets. 

 

I went out to one school that was convenient during an already-planned road trip. The three other schools though, I'm making specific out-of-pocket plans to go out there and meet professors and students, and even sit in on a couple classes. One of these schools specifically recommends right on their website, visiting the campus before applying. Another recommended I visit if I could, in an email response after inquiring.

 

Almost every single professor I'm going to visit has sent me very positive responses and shown what I believe to be genuine enthusiasm about meeting me during those visits (I have an unusual background).  I don't get the sense that any of the schools thinks I'm "desperate" even though I reached out to them in a rather forward manner to say, "Hey, can I visit the department and meet some folks some time?"

 

Granted, I'm not a conventional kind of gal... I wouldn't take my advice if you want to play it safe.  And I can definitely see the merits of the argument that one could come off as "desperate" for making long-haul, self-pay campus visits.

 

I guess I also feel strongly about making sure these places are right for me before I bother with an entire application package. My rationale here is, why apply in the first place if the school - the actual school and the actual humans in it - doesn't feel like a good fit? Wastes their time, my time, my letter writers' time. 

[TakeruK]

Oh boy, where have I been getting my information? I could swear I read somewhere that it's wise to go visit the school and the area first to see if you'd even be OK with living there, and whether the school is what you expected.

 

...

 

I guess I also feel strongly about making sure these places are right for me before I bother with an entire application package. My rationale here is, why apply in the first place if the school - the actual school and the actual humans in it - doesn't feel like a good fit? Wastes their time, my time, my letter writers' time. 

 

These are all valid points, but ultimately, it's a matter of cost / return on investment. That is, I would definitely agree with visiting the school and the area and making sure you're okay with living there but only after you have an offer. There's no point visiting the place and then finding out you didn't get in! Personally, I would rather pay $100 or so to apply to the school and then have them fly me out to visit than to do my visit pre-application (and spending hundreds of my own dollars). 

 

As for the second point, it's true that it would waste time applying to a place that turns out to be a terrible fit. However, the marginal cost in applying to another school is very small. It takes me maybe 2 more hours to prepare another application and I know it takes my recommenders approximately 10 more minutes to submit another LOR (for many schools, they send you an email when your prof submits a LOR and for some of my profs, I got them 5-10 minutes one after another, which is approximately the time it takes for the prof to log into the system, copy-paste their letter, change the name of the school and click submit). 

 

So, while I totally agree with what you say about making sure you end up at a school/location you are comfortable with, my recommendation (for my field) is to apply to more schools and visit later, rather than visiting first and then only applying to the best fits. It will minimize your out of pocket cost and also increase your chances of finding a great fit (unless you can afford to visit every program you might be interested in). Also, I think it would be absolutely heart breaking to visit a school, strike up a great connection with the prof, fall in love with the city and then not get in

[jujubea]

Wow, yeah, you make some great points, too.  Especially from an objective, numbers-only standpoint - that does make a statement about the value of these trips.

 

Two hours to prepare an application ... I wish I could be so quick! Perhaps I am spending an obsessive amount of time on mine... Granted, each of my schools is notably different, and will even need different things in the LOR's in addition to the SOP's (in fact, three of them have entirely different rules and requirements for the SOP's, and the fourth is a different subject altogether!), so I won't be too hard on myself about it.

 

I also have a few more big factors in the form of a spouse and children - we have to check out schools for the kids in the area, whether we can afford to live somewhere decent, and whether my guy can find employment/would want to be employed in the area, and stay in his field. He's mid-career so this is crucial for him. I'm hoping to learn about those things while I'm there, too, although thanks to the interwebs we can find a lot of that online anyway. In fact, that was how we initially ruled out a few other schools who met my requirements, but not theirs.

 

As a complete aside - I think it's awesome you're doing planetary sciences! I could definitely see an alternative educational trajectory for myself in that direction... I'd ask you about it but I think that's called threadjacking... so I'll stop here.

[TakeruK]

Wow, yeah, you make some great points, too.  Especially from an objective, numbers-only standpoint - that does make a statement about the value of these trips.

 

Two hours to prepare an application ... I wish I could be so quick! Perhaps I am spending an obsessive amount of time on mine... Granted, each of my schools is notably different, and will even need different things in the LOR's in addition to the SOP's (in fact, three of them have entirely different rules and requirements for the SOP's, and the fourth is a different subject altogether!), so I won't be too hard on myself about it.

 

I also have a few more big factors in the form of a spouse and children - we have to check out schools for the kids in the area, whether we can afford to live somewhere decent, and whether my guy can find employment/would want to be employed in the area, and stay in his field. He's mid-career so this is crucial for him. I'm hoping to learn about those things while I'm there, too, although thanks to the interwebs we can find a lot of that online anyway. In fact, that was how we initially ruled out a few other schools who met my requirements, but not theirs.

 

As a complete aside - I think it's awesome you're doing planetary sciences! I could definitely see an alternative educational trajectory for myself in that direction... I'd ask you about it but I think that's called threadjacking... so I'll stop here.

 

I should clarify that it's two hours "extra" to apply to, say, school #2 given that I already finished applying to school #1. The first application does take a really long time to finish, but the additional "cost" for another school is small! I was lucky that only 2 schools (out of 8) had "different" application criteria (one limited the SOP to 500 words and another wanted 4 different PDFs instead of one CV file).

 

Although I don't have children, my spouse (not a student) had some of the same concerns as you did. Being Canadian, finding a school that will sponsor me for a J-1 exchange visa (instead of the standard F-1 student visa) was also important so that my spouse can be allowed to work in the US. Even so, for the two of us to fly out and visit each location, it would easily cost over $1000. I applied to 8 schools in total (one Canadian one that we already visited) so vetting each of these schools before applying would have cost $5000+ probably! So, we went with the "shotgun" approach of applying to more schools and then vetting them on the school's money! Most of the schools we visited involved my spouse in the visit day as well and gave her some work space while I interviewed with professors and/or gave her some guidance on what to see in the town. And most programs made an effort to connect us to other grad students with families so that we can get a good sense of what our life might be like there. 

 

Finally, we did a lot of prior research and decision making (as much as we could) prior to my applications. I first made a list of all the schools that had research interests that fit me. Then both my spouse and I crossed off any school where either one of us felt like we would be unhappy in that location (either culture, climate, job opportunities etc.). We tried our best to not make it like the person doing the "veto" had to "defend" their action to the other--the school only stayed on the list if we both approved it! We did also try to keep an open mind and lean towards acceptance than veto since we know that our preconceptions of a place might be distorted. This was how we created our list of 8 schools and then after the schools made their decisions, we visited the schools (a few I had to do on my own) and then made our final ranking. It turns out that our top 3 choices in our ranking were exactly the same, so the final decision was easy

[geographyrocks]

So...I did exactly what everyone else is advising not to do.  Of course, I coupled it with a week long road trip so it was maybe 30% schools, 70% visiting friends and having a nice vacation.  I don't think there's anything wrong with that approach as long as you can afford it.  I didn't arrange any meetings with professors as I really just wanted to get a feel for the schools and the cities.  It was by doing this that I realized that UC Denver feels like a prison school and Colorado State is a sprawling campus that feels like it's in the middle of nowhere.  Are these or should these be deal breakers for most people?  Nah...and not applying to those schools wasn't based on appearances alone, but it did really help when I started freaking out about only applying to 4 schools. 

 

jujubea:

I applied to three out of the four schools that you are interested in.  A couple of quick notes on those schools:

Denver University is private with an annual tuition of around 50k.  They tend to only offer partial funding.  The area around the campus is nice, but it is definitely an urban campus.  There are two or three major streets that run through campus. The big bonus is the light rail.  There is a stop about a block from campus so it's pretty easy to get around.  Also, Denver is just a cool city. 

CU Boulder is amazing and beautiful!  I absolutely love the atmosphere.  However, it is ridiculously expensive to live in Boulder especially near the university.  Seeing as you have a family, I'm assuming you don't want to share a 5 bedroom house with 8 other people.  So you would have a bit of a commute to get to school.  I would advise that you look at places for rent on craigslist to get a feel for what rental properties are available.  Most people experience sticker shock when they see the rents for the first time. 

UNM...well, I want to start by saying that I'm biased as that's where I choose to go.  The campus is absolutely gorgeous with a adobe revival feel.  I really enjoy the city although it has its bad aspects just like most cities.  Also, they tend to guarantee full funding for four years through TAships.  You have the option of working through a RA if your adviser has funds or if you win grants. 

Feel free to PM me if you have questions about Albuquerque.  I spent waaaayyyy too much time reading forums before moving and waaaaayyyy too much time investigating job possibilities for my boyfriend who moved with me. 

[Crucial BBQ]

re: pre-application & post-acceptance visits

 

As a result of informational phone interviews, a good handful of faculty encouraged me to visit the school post-application & pre-acceptance so I that can meet them along with other affiliated faculty.

Of course!  This way they get to keep your non-refundable application fee no matter how much you may later regret applying to their program.  If you desire it you should always do an informal visit before you apply.  

 

Of the four schools I applied to last year I cold called the PI of my top program, told him I would be "in town" on such-and-such dates and would like to swing by.  Got the go-ahead.  When I arrived he told me he only had ten minutes as he had to make a telephone conference or some such thing, but he seemed really stoked that I stopped by.  Not only did I get to see the lab, I also got a full tour with him describing the various goings-ons, courses, and so on.  At the end I was only able to shoot the breeze with him for about ten minutes before he really had to going but he definitely took the time to show me around.  

 

I even stopped by two more universities while on this same trip and was able to meet with the program director of one program and the secretary to the Department Chair of another.  The program director was probably just doing her job and was very helpful but the secretary did seem annoyed that I was there.  The Department Chair was on vacation I was told. 

 

Also, about this time last year I was in Tennessee and decided to check out a local university.  I had no intentions of anything except to just wonder around and waste time.  I ended up in the Geology department.  I was checking out some student posters that were hanging on a wall and one of them really caught my attention as it was somewhat related to my own area of interests.  A spur of the moment decision and I was in the office asking if there were any faculty available I could talk to.  I ended up meeting the Department Chair of Geology.  It took him about 45 seconds to realize that geology was the wrong discipline (I knew that) for me but we continued to talk for about 30 minutes anyways.  He really pushed me to think about what I really wanted to study in graduate school and gave me the best low-down on graduate school and grad school admissions I have ever heard or read.  

 

In a way I was lucky in the sense that I was already going to be in those locations and visiting these schools was truly an after thought.  I get the sense that four of your schools/programs are near either based on your comment that if you were reimbursed $300 per program, that times four would cover the costs of the airfare.  Fly Southwest, Jetblue, or another low cost airline and make a weekend of it.  I can fly from BWI to California most times of the year for under $450 round trip.  If I remember correctly it was even cheaper when I was flying out of Logan (Boston).  I would imagine flying out of NYC would be cheap, too.