Work Concern

[trenttrenttrent]

I just started a new position, but I'm also applying for grad schools out of the city I live in. Am I paranoid to think that my current boss could contact any program I get accepted to (when/if I tell him I have to leave) and tell them that I wasn't up-front about applying to programs, which might result in concern about my character, etc. from programs and thus a possible revocation of an offer of admission? Is that crazy? I just don't want to have to deal with anything in a few months if/when I get into any of my chosen programs,  have put down a deposit, and have to tell my boss. Has anyone dealt with this before?

[Vene]

First, I don't think any program would give a shit about somebody that petty. Second, just don't tell your boss exactly where you're going. A former supervisor of mine left for a job at a different company and she refused to tell upper management which company it was as she wanted to keep it confidential. There was nothing they could do.

[TakeruK]

I would say that in most cases, it makes sense for you to apply to grad school without telling your brand new boss that you are doing so. In your shoes, I would only tell my new employer if there was some requirement in your job contract (but more for future professional contact rather than worrying about them "telling" on your new school) or if you wanted your new boss to write a LOR (although they might not be able to be very helpful).

 

So, unless you have reason to believe otherwise, I don't think you need to worry about your boss doing this. Even if they did, I don't think your new school will care that you didn't tell your old boss that you were applying to grad school. 

[trenttrenttrent]

Interesting, thanks for the perspective. I should probably clarify that I'm a contract worker right now but will probably be taken on as a regular employee right around the time my first applications will be going in in a couple more weeks. Does that make any difference with any of my considerations?

[Vene]

I wouldn't say so. Is looking at graduate school really any different than looking for a job when you already have one? Besides, I'm sure you have bills to pay between now and when classes start up next fall. Do what you gotta do to pay the bills.

[TakeruK]

Interesting, thanks for the perspective. I should probably clarify that I'm a contract worker right now but will probably be taken on as a regular employee right around the time my first applications will be going in in a couple more weeks. Does that make any difference with any of my considerations?

 

I don't think this changes anything.

[jujubea]

Yeah I'd say you're freaking out too much about it.

 

I definitely understand WHY you're freaking out ... but you don't need to. 

 

And you aren't a bad person for applying to grad school to improve your life while working some place in the meantime. That's just life. 

 

Now, if your boss asked you up front, are you applying to grad schools any time soon? And you were like, no, then that'd feel a little different, morally speaking. Anyway that's not your case, so chill! I agree with everyone's advice above.

[TakeruK]

Now, if your boss asked you up front, are you applying to grad schools any time soon? And you were like, no, then that'd feel a little different, morally speaking. Anyway that's not your case, so chill! I agree with everyone's advice above.

 

I am also morally against lying. However, I think this can sometimes (many times?) be a very inappropriate question for a boss to ask an employee. In my opinion, it would be immoral for a boss to ask an employee a question where 1) the answer is not related to their job description and/or 2) the employee would feel concern about giving a truthful answer.

 

For example, questions like "Are you married?" or "Do you want to start a family soon?" or "Will you go on a date with me?" are all potentially inappropriate questions for a boss to ask an employee. (If it is important for the company to know whether or not the employee will stay on long term, for a project or whatever, then I think the appropriate thing to do is to ask them to sign a contract so that the employee can always decline without giving the reason for not staying). 

 

So, morality is complex with situation like this. I don't think I would feel it is immoral to lie about an answer to an inappropriate question. 

[Vene]

To add to that, it would be a lot more of an issue if your employer felt any loyalty towards you. As a general rule, companies will drop you the instant they think it will save them a few dollars. Do you really owe them an ounce of loyalty in return?

[Tiggerise]

I agree, about the question being inappropriate. I was actually asked this during an interview due to the fact the last employee only gave 2 weeks notice during their busy season to go to grad school. It was an awkward situation because I knew eventually I would leave for grad school as well but I had a year their before applying so I said no.  Unfortunately for my boss but fortunate for me was that three months later an amazing research opportunity fell into my lap and while it didn't pay the bills I moved in with my folks to do it. My boss was beyond pissed, she spent a week complaining to everyone about it. However I had no fear that she would contact the school, or that their would be a problem. However she was quick to find a replacement who I know now has also applied to grad school (its a laboratory job so most people want to go to grad school).  Once she found the replacement she was trilled about my opporunity and surprised me with a bag of school supplies and a nice leaving gift. 

[jujubea]

I am also morally against lying. However, I think this can sometimes (many times?) be a very inappropriate question for a boss to ask an employee. In my opinion, it would be immoral for a boss to ask an employee a question where 1) the answer is not related to their job description and/or 2) the employee would feel concern about giving a truthful answer.

 

For example, questions like "Are you married?" or "Do you want to start a family soon?" or "Will you go on a date with me?" are all potentially inappropriate questions for a boss to ask an employee. (If it is important for the company to know whether or not the employee will stay on long term, for a project or whatever, then I think the appropriate thing to do is to ask them to sign a contract so that the employee can always decline without giving the reason for not staying). 

 

So, morality is complex with situation like this. I don't think I would feel it is immoral to lie about an answer to an inappropriate question. 

 

Yeah - you (and others above) make some great points, too. Not everything's so black and white, and no way should bosses be asking those questions (including the hypothetical one related to the OP's post)... it would put someone in just such a moral conundrum.

[juilletmercredi]

Yes, I think you are paranoid.  While your boss may get irritated that you leave a new position a year in to go to grad school, few sane bosses will take it as far as calling your graduate program to rant about yout.  And even if they did, most programs would realize that reflects more on the boss than on you.

 

I don't think it's immoral or inappropriate for employers to ask about it, though.  "Are you married?" or "Do you want to have children soon?" are completely different questions than "Are you planning to leave for graduate school soon?"  The former two first of all give the employer the potential to discriminate illegally against candidates, but second of all have pretty much zero bearing on the work of the employee.  Many, many people work hard while being married and/or having children.  These questions and the discrimination that comes along with them is more about age-old stereotypes that won't die than any actual impact on productivity.

 

However, future graduate students aren't a protected class.  Moreover, most students do plan to attend their grad programs full-time, which would probably mean quitting the job, so it does have a very real impact on the job.  There are some jobs in which high turnover would be kind of disastrous.  It's also not uncommon for interviewers to ask these kinds of questions - maybe not about grad school, but about where you see yourself in 2-5 years and/or how long you think you would stay in the position.  (And I think contracts for length of time are unenforceable on the employer side.)

 

I'm not saying that I don't think employers should ask about grad school; but I think it's understandable if they are a bit irritated if you leave after 9-12 months when they wanted someone to stay for 2-3 years.  Now, that's not really your problem, of course.  People get irritated all the time and they have to get over it.  Employers who screen out anyone who thinks about going to graduate school also run the risk of screening out really competitive people (and who knows, they may change their mind and decide not to go at all, or may not get admitted anywhere).

[TakeruK]

It's true that future graduate students are not a protected class so it's not illegal for employers to discriminate on that basis. To me, morality is subjective, I don't think there exists an objective morality at all. I also do not think legal is the same as moral nor is illegal the same as immoral. I know this is not what you are saying, but just clarifying that I consider being lawful and being moral as independent.

 

In my opinion, the employer, both at the interview stage and at other stages like annual reviews, promotion review, etc. have so much power over the employee. When you are asked "where do you see yourself in 5 years?" while under promotion review, there is basically no possible answer the employee can give other than "working for your great company!". I agree that this question is not as inappropriate as "Do you plan on having children?" but it's also the kind of question where there is a great power imbalance that makes a honest answer not viable for the employee.

 

The equivalent in academia is professors asking if students want to work in academia in the future. At least in my field, every student is advised to always say yes unless they trust the professor enough to be honest. 

 

So, I don't think it is usually appropriate for an employer to ask that kind of question. Employers don't really get any useful information since employees know there is really only one answer that they can safely give. I say "usually" because I think this is an okay question if the employer and employee do have a good relationship and trust such that the employee actually does feel comfortable enough to be honest so that this is not a case where the power imbalance affects the answer. 

 

Anyways, I guess what I am saying is yes--future grad students (or more generally, employees with future goals beyond their current employment) are not a protected class by law. Employers are understandably upset when employees leave but yes, that's their problem, not yours. What I really meant by my post above was not to say that it should be illegal for employers to ask this question and make employment/promotion decisions based on the answer, but that while I don't like lying to people, I don't feel that it is immoral at all to lie when you know the truth will cause unfair action taken against you. 

 

Finally, as to contracts for staying, what I meant was something like incentives. That is, a job offer that states some bonus after staying on for X time, or increasing benefits, etc. This way, the employee has something to gain for staying, and the employer also wins because they get to keep the employee.