Am I a native english speaker?

[StenoLubr]

I was born in US, but lived in taiwan until i was 11 (then over 10yrs in america). I speak mandarin with my family and think in mandarin (sometimes in english). But, I am also fluent in english now, and I write much better in english than in mandarin. I am just a bit confused whether to put english or mandarin as my native language in my apps. any inputs on this?

 

so some comparable points are

 

-lived about the same years in both taiwan and america

-first learned to speak mandarin

-speak mandarin with family and think in mandarin most of the time

-fluent in english and speak english with friends

-write better in english than mandarin.

 

so overall linguistic skill is better in english than mandarin, but i first learned mandarin before english.

Edited December 2, 2014 by kingwd

[Usmivka]

If you spoke English as a primary language as a child (even if one of multiple languages, whether at home or in daily life) then you are a native English speaker. If you are fluent now and have been since you were a teenager (that's what it sounds like to me), I'd go for "native" and skip the extra tests--confirm this with an admissions office to be safe, but I'm thinking if you graduated from a US high school and college no one will question you.

[StenoLubr]

If you spoke English as a primary language as a child (even if one of multiple languages, whether at home or in daily life) then you are a native English speaker. If you are fluent now and have been since you were a teenager (that's what it sounds like to me), I'd go for "native" and skip the extra tests--confirm this with an admissions office to be safe, but I'm thinking if you graduated from a US high school and college no one will question you.

 

Thanks! yeah so I learned to speak English since moving here at 11, and went to US high school and college. So I am not worried about taking other exams than GRE, but I wasnt just so sure about what to put as my 'native' language.

[fuzzylogician]

Put English, it'll make your life easier and I think it's fair for the purposes of the application. If you were a potential subject for one of my experiments, I might be more cautious, but that's really not the case here. 

[victorydance]

Technically speaking, you are not a native speaker. You may be bilingual, but starting a language at age 11, and even becoming fluent in it does not make you a native speaker. Mandarin is still your first language, especially with the fact that you think with it.

 

But honestly it doesn't matter what you put on the application, there is no way you are really "lying" nor can they prove you wrong anyways. 

[TakeruK]

I am was in a similar situation. My first language learned was Vietnamese but I started to learn English at age 4 and English is the only language that I am completely fluent in (written and oral). I also think in English. I am only able to speak/hear Vietnamese--I cannot read/write it even though it's my first language and thus my "native" language by some definitions.

 

Most schools I applied to turned out to ask the question in a more clear way (i.e. "are you fluent in English?" etc.) so I can easily say yes. One school did phrase it as "Are you a native English speaker?" and I am not sure if they meant the technical definition (first language learned) or the practical definition (i.e. asking it to determine whether they need to do additional English language proficiency screening). So I asked them and they told me to answer "yes" to the question! So, you can check with each school if you are not certain, but I would agree with everyone else here and answer that you are a native English speaker.

[med_za]

I am fluent in english, received my entire education in english and live in a commonwealth country... Yet it seems that this is not enough for some admissions departments (especially those in the Netherlands). Apparently if you come from an African country you immediately have to do the TOEFL/IELTS. It is absolutely ludicrous.

 

In some cases the admissions departments ask if you are from an English speaking country, but the problem with that question is that only very few countries actually fit that criterion.

[TakeruK]

The language requirements are sometimes really stupid. My school has now changed this policy but in the past, all international students must pass "English language screening" upon arrival, which was just a short conversation with an English speaker. All international students had to do it, even those from English speaking countries, even students from England!!!

[med_za]

I would love to do a simple "English language screening" test like that. In fact in many cases it makes sense because in 5 minutes you would have an idea of how well the person can speak english. However, getting me to pay $200 to "prove" that I can speak english is ridiculous.

 

Many schools also refuse to take the GRE verbal or writing portion as proof. Although it is not really testing all of the specific skills you do have to have some concept of the english language to do well.

Edited December 4, 2014 by med_za

[TakeruK]

I would love to do a simple "English language screening" test like that. In fact in many cases it makes sense because in 5 minutes you would have an idea of how well the person can speak english. However, getting me to pay $200 to "prove" that I can speak english is ridiculous.

 

Many schools also refuse to take the GRE verbal or writing portion as proof. Although it is not really testing all of the specific skills you do have to have some concept of the english language to do well.

 

The "English language screening" is in addition to TOEFL/other exams for those who did not complete 4 year degrees at an English speaking institution. The school justifies this as they use TOEFL/other exams as a bare minimum in order to understand courses (taught in English) at the school. So, people from English speaking countries generally are exempt from this requirement.

 

However, the English language screening is for ensuring incoming students have enough mastery of the language to act as TAs and communicate information to others. If you do not pass the screening, you would be required to take some English language courses in your first year. 

[Crucial BBQ]

The language requirements are sometimes really stupid. My school has now changed this policy but in the past, all international students must pass "English language screening" upon arrival, which was just a short conversation with an English speaker. All international students had to do it, even those from English speaking countries, even students from England!!!

We can all read and write the same for the most part but when it comes to speech we can totally be lost with each other.  Accents aside, there are differing mannerisms of speech, word usages, tonalities, and so on.  Take someone native to each from Minnesota, Maine, California, and Lousianna and all four would have a hard time understanding each other.  And they are all Americans.  

 

There were a a lot of native Spanish speakers taking Spanish to fulfill the language requirement at my high school (California).  I thought that was cheating for a long time until I realized they took Spanish for Spanish Speakers (that is, they were mostly Mexicans who spoke Mexican Spanish).  

 

A good friend of mine growing up is from Mexico.  We have a mutual friend in high school who was from Guatemala.  The two would spend a lot of time filling in each other how to say this or that in their own versions of Spanish.  

 

 

 

However, the English language screening is for ensuring incoming students have enough mastery of the language to act as TAs and communicate information to others. If you do not pass the screening, you would be required to take some English language courses in your first year. 

Right, of course.  I mean we can't have some English dude running a class saying things like "maths" and "you will write your exams tomorrow" and "tootle pip".   

Edited December 9, 2014 by Crucial BBQ

[TakeruK]

Agreed that there are a lot of variations of how people speak within the same country! But I don't think the language screening at my school was at the level where it would differentiate between a Minnesotan and a Californian. And I don't even think it is a bad thing that people speak different versions of English -- there is no "right" version and I would say that Californian, Canadian, British, and Minnesotan English should be equally valid at any school that operates in English! 

[Karoku_valentine]

I would say you are a native Mandarin speaker and fluent in English. However, for the purpose of the application I would just go with native.

Regarding Americans with Mexican/Central American parents, those growing up in United States have an eerie Spanish because their parents' Spanish, main source of Spanish for them, is not really formal (there are a lot of high school dropouts) and most of them come from the countryside (at least in the case of Mexican immigrants) and use informal versions and weird words; second, they tend to mix Spanish with English making it more difficult for native Spanish speakers to understand them, and most important, they never had formal training in Spanish, that is why they have trouble understanding each other.

 

I have never had a problem understanding other Latin Americans (from Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Panama, Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Cuba) because we mostly use a formal Spanish and avoid national slang.