American Applying to Canadian Universities

[AnxiousUrbanPlanner]

Questions about applying to Canadian universities as an American:

 

1) Is there a disadvantage as an international in admissions? (As in, quota?)

2) Is there less funding available?

 

I totally understand if both are the case. Canadian universities are all public, so their main goals are to train Canadians. But still, I'm curious!

 

Thanks!

[MathCat]

International students, including Americans, are at a disadvantage for admission to Canadian schools. Many do have a limited number of spots for international students.

 

At the schools I have applied to, a typical funding package for an international student is higher than that of a Canadian, to take into account the higher tuition fees, etc. So, as far as I've seen, if you get in with funding you are not worse off than a Canadian, except possibly for relocation expenses and such. You will not be eligible for many major government funding opportunities though - likely you will only be able to get whatever funding the school offers you or any scholarships from your home country that you can hold abroad.

[TakeruK]

1) For fully funded programs, yes, there is a disadvantage because Americans (like other international students) pay a higher tuition fee. At one school I've been to, the difference is about $9000/year and the University (in order to encourage departments to admit more international students) provides "International Student Awards" to each department so that it does not cost the department any more to admit an international student. So, although there is rarely a quota set by law, the limited amount of money available for these "awards" sets a de facto quota on the number of international students admitted. 

 

However, it is flexible. For example, at a Canadian school, I sat in one of our department meetings where the professors discussed what they wanted to do. In the end, they voted that each professor would contribute $X more per year to a departmental fund that would supplement the University international tuition award (allowing for a several more international admits). Another option if a professor wanted to admit an additional international student but the department is out of funding from the international tuition award account, the professor can choose to pay the extra cost themselves, out of their own grants or other funding sources. 

 

2) For all the programs I've encountered, international students get the same minimum take-home funding/pay as Canadian students. In Canada, we are first paid directly and then we pay tuition out of our salary, so an international student's gross income will be higher than a Canadian's in order to offset your higher tuition costs. There are also other costs too, such as paying additional fees for health care etc. Since the value of the additional "international student tuition award" is not directly linked to the actual increasing costs (managed by different groups), some of my international student friends report that in some years, the additional salary does not fully cover all the additional costs. However, the difference is small, in the order of hundreds of dollars (i.e. a few % of the total salary).

 

That said, the maximum funding available to international students may be lower. This is because many programs in my field do have "tiered" funding schemes where you get paid different amounts based on what fellowships you may have. Some of the high paying fellowships are only available to Canadians, so international students are often only eligible for the minimum funding. (There are some exceptions though but they would be tough to get!)

[tsing]

heard that some programs of waterloo give half of the admissions to canadians...

[TakeruK]

heard that some programs of waterloo give half of the admissions to canadians...

 

Actually, in most programs, much more than half of admissions go to Canadians for the reasons I mentioned above (i.e. not a policy or law or anything, just limitations on funding). I would say probably ~15% of the graduate population in my old department were international. If it was only 50% Canadians, I would be really surprised. 

[nugget]

heard that some programs of waterloo give half of the admissions to canadians...

 

Perhaps MBA programs and other professional degrees. At WLU in Waterloo, for instance, lots of international students attend MBA programs, particularly from China. I'd be surprised though if you heard this about research based programs

Edited January 22, 2015 by jenste

[mrobez]

I'm sure this varies widely from program to program, but last year I was admitted to the biomedical engineering department for a PhD at U Toronto as an American and the funding package was much lower than what you can expect at an American school, and also completely non-negotiable. This seems to be the trend in Canada based on what I have heard anecdotally. It's a great school but in the end I chose not to go there because Toronto is far too expensive for the funding they were offering.

[TakeruK]

I'm sure this varies widely from program to program, but last year I was admitted to the biomedical engineering department for a PhD at U Toronto as an American and the funding package was much lower than what you can expect at an American school, and also completely non-negotiable. This seems to be the trend in Canada based on what I have heard anecdotally. It's a great school but in the end I chose not to go there because Toronto is far too expensive for the funding they were offering.

 

I should clarify and say that for fully funded programs, the take-home funding for an international student should be the same as the take-home funding for Canadian students. In general though, the top Canadian programs (e.g. Toronto) will not fund students as well as the top American programs, mostly because we have much less money available than American programs. In my field, without considering fellowships, Toronto's funding package was also well below my US school offers, and Toronto is a very expensive place to live Like I said above, the main disadvantage you'll have financially is that you won't be eligible for many fellowships and thus have to take the lowest funding package.

 

There's also additional considerations like taxes. Canada does not tax graduate student income** (actually the government gives us extra money because of our low income status), but the United States does, so you also have to account for roughly 10% of an American stipend to go to taxes. And finally, TA expectations in Canada are much lower than in the States--I might get an offer from a Canadian school for $24k/year (after tuition) for 10 hours/week of TA work, vs. an American offer of $30k/year ($27k/year after tax) for 20hours/week of TA work.

 

(**Note: simplification but effectively true)

 

And finally, I found that Canadian schools were much more willing to negotiate with me than American schools (I have been to both). However, in order to be in a position to negotiate, you must be bringing in some kind of external money, like a Canadian fellowship, so it's understandable that an American would not be able to do this in Canada, just like how I was not able to do this in America!

[MathCat]

I'm sure this varies widely from program to program, but last year I was admitted to the biomedical engineering department for a PhD at U Toronto as an American and the funding package was much lower than what you can expect at an American school, and also completely non-negotiable. This seems to be the trend in Canada based on what I have heard anecdotally. It's a great school but in the end I chose not to go there because Toronto is far too expensive for the funding they were offering.

U of T is known for being particularly stingy about their funding. But what TakeruK said about Canadian funding offers generally being much lower is true as well.

[mrobez]

To be more specific, I was offered $16k Canadian as take home pay. TA pays reasonably well but no one wants to TA every single semester just to be slightly less poor. For comparison, most US programs in the same field and of the same caliber offer $24-30k USD take home pay. I was told by a prof at UofT that NSERC (The Canadian counterpart to the National Science Foundation) and other funding agencies in Canada explicitly prevent more than a certain percentage of grant funding to go towards paying students which gives professors little leeway in how much they pay. My other theory is that there are far fewer good engineering schools in Canada than in the US so the handful that are out there don't have to compete as much for top students. It's a shame because I really wanted to go, I love the school and I love Canada, but it just didn't make good financial sense. 

[nugget]

To live in Toronto on $16,000 you would probably need to have a roommate and use public transportation instead of a car. It could be done (depending on whether or not you would have to pay extra for health insurance and how much that would cost). $16,000 could cover the basics and any additional money earned as a TA would cover emergencies, airfare, vacations, a new computer, etc.

Edited January 25, 2015 by jenste

[AnxiousUrbanPlanner]

I could see $16,000 being very much doable in TO. Especially if you get a paid internship in the summer term, it wouldn't be terrible. But I agree, at the same time, you wouldn't exactly be considered well to do. Or even all that comfortable, as a matter of fact haha

[TakeruK]

To be more specific, I was offered $16k Canadian as take home pay. TA pays reasonably well but no one wants to TA every single semester just to be slightly less poor. For comparison, most US programs in the same field and of the same caliber offer $24-30k USD take home pay. I was told by a prof at UofT that NSERC (The Canadian counterpart to the National Science Foundation) and other funding agencies in Canada explicitly prevent more than a certain percentage of grant funding to go towards paying students which gives professors little leeway in how much they pay. My other theory is that there are far fewer good engineering schools in Canada than in the US so the handful that are out there don't have to compete as much for top students. It's a shame because I really wanted to go, I love the school and I love Canada, but it just didn't make good financial sense. 

 

That's too bad NSERC used to have really weird rules. When I was in a MSc program, I had the NSERC CGS-M (similar to the NSF GRFP but just for 1 year in a Masters program), NSERC had a weird rule that if a student held a NSERC fellowship, then a professor cannot use any NSERC grant funds to pay for the student?!! However, the NSERC student award does not cover all of the stipend! So, it put schools in a weird situation where if a student brings in external money, it actually cost the department more money since the department had to make up the difference in stipend as the supervisor was not allowed to do so.

 

But I also had to turn down an American school for the same reason. Their offer was $18k in a city with the same cost of living as Toronto and this was with 20 hours of TAship per week for all years. Like you, equal (or better) schools were offering $24k-$30k on average, so I had to turn that school down purely because it did not make good financial sense. 

 

PS -- just curious, was it $16k/year at Toronto with or without TAships? It's pretty standard in Canada to be TAing at least one course per semester for all 4-5 years. But TAs in Canada are unionized so our work is on a contract basis. When I held the NSF-equivalent fellowship, I had a half-TAship which was very manageable at 4.5 hours per week (a full TAship is 9 hours per week).

[mrobez]

The $16k was before TA, with TA I could bring it up but still not to the level of American programs, most of which do not require TA or only require it for the first year or so. It would have been tough but doable if I had really been set on going to Toronto but in the end I decided it wouldn't be worth it. I decided to stay another year in the states and get a master's at my undergrad institution since I had financial support and apply for US programs for fall '15. Basically I just put everything on hold for a year and got a master's in the meantime. So far my application has had a lot more success than I expected so I feel like I made the right call even though I love toronto.

[TakeruK]

Cool, it sounds like that too! Thanks for resolving my curiosity Good luck!!

[mrobez]

Thanks, you too!