Chicago Harris 2nd Year Opinion

[Reasonablyterrified]

As someone in the home stretch on my MPP I figured I'd weigh in and give my opinion of my time at UChicago before people made their final decisions. I've enjoyed my time here, but there are a few things I wish I'd know. This curriculum is needlessly quatatative. I like the econ focus, but some classes involve mathematic functions that make little sense and have zero real world value. The school is in the process of overhauling a mandatory "Decisions and Organizations" class partially due to student complaints over the math focus resulting in little real world value.

 

The school is undergoing a major overhaul. This is a good thing. If you start there in the fall of 2015 you won't really reap the benefits of this overhaul. The career office has been drastically changed due to abismal placement numbers at graduation the last few years. The school has hired new staff to help solve this, but it's going to take a few years to get this enterprise up and running (I had a recruiter at a consulting firm tell me their company was aware of Harris' poor quality career office). The school is having trouble piggy-backing off of UChicago's grad-school on campus recruiting. Many of us have tried to us the regular UChicago career office to find placement (due to Harris' career office lacking), this is a difficult situation at best. You can get a great job from here, but you need to network for it.

 

Admissions and student services is also going a major overhaul. Many posistions have been eliminated or re-organized in the front office. The results of this are currently unknown (we will see), but the school deciding to do this in the middle of a school year has provided all Harris students with a total lack of continuity for many student services. It will take time for the school to determine who is responsible for what services. If I had the option, I wouldn't attend a school during it's "trial and error" stage of management.

 

We are getting a new building, you won't see it unless you enroll later in this decade.

 

I'm happy I came to Harris, but had some of my other options worked out, I would have taken them, and I feel like I would be better off.

 

Hope this gives someone a better layout.

[MJA87]

Thanks a lot for this information; it's sort of scary but also very important to have. Harris was my #1 choice when I first started looking at programs last summer, but since then I've read almost exclusively negative things about the program. It's a shame because UChicago has such an incredible reputation and Chicago is such an awesome city.

 

I'm wondering, financial circumstances being equal, would you recommend other programs like CMU Heinz, UW Evans, USC Price, and UTexas LBJ over Harris?

 

Thanks again.

[MJA87]

I just wanted to bump this to get more dialogue going. I'm really interested to hear other opinions about Harris: is it a program in turmoil? Are its problems overblown?

 

As I mentioned previously, I've read several negative things about Harris over the past few months and just wanted to hear from as many people in the know as possible.

[Reasonablyterrified]

I applied to a couple of schools. From what I know:

 

Harvard, the curriculum is "leadership" based.

 

CMU, the curriculum is "empircal evidence" based.

 

Harris, the curriculum is "economics" based.

 

I like Harris for that.

 

Also consider what you want to do after school. Goldman is a ton of bay area not for profits. Anything around DC is going to end up in DC, I've heard Georgetown is a ton of networking. Chicago is making efforts to expand it's recruiting options. There's already a big midwestern draw, they're working on more DC and more private sector from what I can see. It's a great school for a lot of people, but a lot of the quanty stuff is total BS with no real world application. That said I don't know how many programs offer ANY real world education. My main gripe is they decided to do a major overhaul midyear. They are supposed to send out a list of who to contact for what next week. So for the first month and half of 2015 most students had little to no idea who to go to for registration, financial, student organization, whatever, needs. That's frustrating and short sighted.

 

I will say 100% that once Harris implements these new changes (big pushes on career development, academic advising, alumni, and growth), coupled with a new building (which is a done deal), I think it's going to be in competition for being THE premier program in the country. Unfortunately you will not reap the benefits of any of this while you're here.

[scholl43]

Current CMU student here.  Assuming you're talking about the Heinz College's MSPPM, here goes:

 

The curriculum (like any) has it's strong and weak points.  If you're in the 4 semester Pittsburgh track, you'll spend a lot of the first year getting the core required courses out of the way (micro econ, database management, writing, presentation, statistics, and management science).  You have the opportunity to test out of any/all of those (and one or two I'm forgetting) and you definitely should if you can.  No reason to waste your time.  Don't take the writing class if you think it would be useful to brush up on writing; it's too simple of a course.  Presentations only if you're a shaky-handed, shaky-voiced presenter.  Database management - test out if you know Access.  Management Science will kick your ass, but Jon Caulkins (used to head the Rand office) is brilliant and has done great work on drug policy.

 

Outside of the core you can take SAS, R, GIS, Cost Benefit Analysis, and more advanced courses in econ, stats, management science, and predictive analytics.  There are plenty regionally focused policy courses (think shale gas, Pennsylvania politics, etc.), but relatively little on the federal or international front. 

Heinz is all about eating up your time so don't expect to do much outside of school, especially if you're doing 54 or 60 credit semesters (6 credits per mini, which is half a semester and 12 credits for full semester). 

If you'd like, you can also apply to the DC track, which severely limits your choice in classes during the first year (no choice in the second year).  Plenty of people swap out once they've accepted, sometimes very late.  The advantage to this is that you work part time (or full) during your second year and likely get a job offer from your employer.  Placement is more on your back, but if there are alumni connections where you're looking that helps.  The career office isn't very useful, but the alumni network is.  The nice part is that you can do anything with the MSPPM.  People leave and work in local, state, federal, and international governments, non profits, and consulting firms (Deloitte, Booz Allen, and some smaller firms recruit heavily).

The administration of the program is severely lacking so definitely confirm everything you can on your own.  You see some of this in the career office staff (although it has improved), the financial aid/admission staff, and the IT support staff.  Definitely leverage other admissions offers to negotiate more $$ from Heinz.

[Harris1year]

I am a current Harris 1st year (MPP) and I've had nothing but a positive experience. 

 

The workload is especially quantitative, which is what I was looking for, and at times, it seems needlessly quantitative, but I've started to connect the dots with where it fits into. It sucks, but it's manageable and worthwhile in the end, at least for me.  I wanted to learn different types of programming skills and be able to get involved in Chicago's policy landscape. It is really rigorous and there have been definitely times where I've been frustrated and wanted to pull my hair out, but it's what I signed up for and it makes me a better candidate for that reason. I got into several other prestigious public policy schools, but none of them compared to what Harris offered. I felt, with my experiences visiting Wagner, HKS, Georgetown, UW-Madison, Ford, and among others, that I would be in a better position with the hard-skill set that I'm learning here than anywhere else. 

 

The resources at Harris are tremendous if you're willing to get involved and ask for it. I've had nothing but wonderful experiences with the administration. WE have an extremely opinionated student body that is willing to be collaborative and wants each other to succeed, which is something I did not see at other public policy schools. This ultimately is what made me choose Harris. I also received a very small aid package and had full rides elsewhere. The career I want would not have been possible if I had gone to other schools. Harris does open a lot of doors for you, if you're willing to be an adult and not wait for a job offer to drop from the sky, but do your due diligence and seek it out. The same can be said for those in the business school at Uchicago that are not going into consulting or finance, they have to do the same networking that we do. In regards to paying back my loans, I plan on taking advantage of the program where if you enter into the public sector, your loans are forgiven after 10 years, or enter into the private sector and live cheaply for 2-3 years and pay it off that way. It's manageable, from what I've heard from fellow alums who are in the same boat. 

 

In regards to our career development offices, I've always reached out for support and always gotten it from them or have been connected to someone at a different graduate school that can help me. The network at Uchicago and Harris is unmatched and the alums I've talked to and networked have been nothing but accommodating and willing to connect me with other people to get me to my career goals. I do think that our career development offices can be improved, especially when compared to Booth. However, the admin staff is working hard to remedy this and there are some people in the career development office that are fantastic and have been super helpful. The other comment I have to make is that there are some Harris students that do procrastinate and don't take their career development seriously and wait on internships or jobs, leading to difficulty. Additionally, we no longer live in a world where you are just recruited, the job market has changed dramatically. We are adults and it is up to you to go to networking effects, connect with recruiters, and take charge of your own career and seek out resources when necessary. Harris does have recruiting events and information sessions with employers such as LMI, BCG, Deloitte, City of Chicago, etc..., however those can be improved since a lot of our TA sessions (especially during the first quarter) are during 12-1, when the recruiting sessions are taking place. I've brought this up to the administration that TA sessions should not be held during these times and its something they're looking into. That being said, Harris is extremely responsive to the needs of students, at least in my experience. 

 

I hope this helps! I've loved my time at Harris so far and I don't regret my decision at all. 

[tianqian345432]

I am a current Harris 1st year (MPP) and I've had nothing but a positive experience. 

 

The workload is especially quantitative, which is what I was looking for, and at times, it seems needlessly quantitative, but I've started to connect the dots with where it fits into. It sucks, but it's manageable and worthwhile in the end, at least for me.  I wanted to learn different types of programming skills and be able to get involved in Chicago's policy landscape. It is really rigorous and there have been definitely times where I've been frustrated and wanted to pull my hair out, but it's what I signed up for and it makes me a better candidate for that reason. I got into several other prestigious public policy schools, but none of them compared to what Harris offered. I felt, with my experiences visiting Wagner, HKS, Georgetown, UW-Madison, Ford, and among others, that I would be in a better position with the hard-skill set that I'm learning here than anywhere else. 

 

The resources at Harris are tremendous if you're willing to get involved and ask for it. I've had nothing but wonderful experiences with the administration. WE have an extremely opinionated student body that is willing to be collaborative and wants each other to succeed, which is something I did not see at other public policy schools. This ultimately is what made me choose Harris. I also received a very small aid package and had full rides elsewhere. The career I want would not have been possible if I had gone to other schools. Harris does open a lot of doors for you, if you're willing to be an adult and not wait for a job offer to drop from the sky, but do your due diligence and seek it out. The same can be said for those in the business school at Uchicago that are not going into consulting or finance, they have to do the same networking that we do. In regards to paying back my loans, I plan on taking advantage of the program where if you enter into the public sector, your loans are forgiven after 10 years, or enter into the private sector and live cheaply for 2-3 years and pay it off that way. It's manageable, from what I've heard from fellow alums who are in the same boat. 

 

In regards to our career development offices, I've always reached out for support and always gotten it from them or have been connected to someone at a different graduate school that can help me. The network at Uchicago and Harris is unmatched and the alums I've talked to and networked have been nothing but accommodating and willing to connect me with other people to get me to my career goals. I do think that our career development offices can be improved, especially when compared to Booth. However, the admin staff is working hard to remedy this and there are some people in the career development office that are fantastic and have been super helpful. The other comment I have to make is that there are some Harris students that do procrastinate and don't take their career development seriously and wait on internships or jobs, leading to difficulty. Additionally, we no longer live in a world where you are just recruited, the job market has changed dramatically. We are adults and it is up to you to go to networking effects, connect with recruiters, and take charge of your own career and seek out resources when necessary. Harris does have recruiting events and information sessions with employers such as LMI, BCG, Deloitte, City of Chicago, etc..., however those can be improved since a lot of our TA sessions (especially during the first quarter) are during 12-1, when the recruiting sessions are taking place. I've brought this up to the administration that TA sessions should not be held during these times and its something they're looking into. That being said, Harris is extremely responsive to the needs of students, at least in my experience. 

 

I hope this helps! I've loved my time at Harris so far and I don't regret my decision at all. 

Hello. I am actually planning going to Harris. I really love your post , and I have couples questions for you if you do not mind. First, I have heard that Harris is very quantitative, I am wondering how quantitative is that? I mean what kind of math/stat level is required to handle the core courses at Harris? I am an Econ major at UC Berkeley, and I have taken couple upper stat courses at Berkeley with pretty good grade, will I be able to handle the courses at Harris? Second, I am kind of worried about my future career development. I am really interested in working in like international organizations, such as UN or world bank...Does Harris offer or have any opportunities for this kind of jobs or programs? I have heard that Harris is more domestic policy oriented, and lack of international policy studies, so I kind of hesitate about the MPP. I know I may have so many questions. I f you have time, please give me some advice, because I am choosing between Chicago and Columbia, and it is a very painful process for me now and I really need some professional advice. Thank you very much!

[economixed_policy]

Hello. I am actually planning going to Harris. I really love your post , and I have couples questions for you if you do not mind. First, I have heard that Harris is very quantitative, I am wondering how quantitative is that? I mean what kind of math/stat level is required to handle the core courses at Harris? I am an Econ major at UC Berkeley, and I have taken couple upper stat courses at Berkeley with pretty good grade, will I be able to handle the courses at Harris? Second, I am kind of worried about my future career development. I am really interested in working in like international organizations, such as UN or world bank...Does Harris offer or have any opportunities for this kind of jobs or programs? I have heard that Harris is more domestic policy oriented, and lack of international policy studies, so I kind of hesitate about the MPP. I know I may have so many questions. I f you have time, please give me some advice, because I am choosing between Chicago and Columbia, and it is a very painful process for me now and I really need some professional advice. Thank you very much!

I have very similar questions about "how quantiative". I've got a masters in economics from the UK. Any examples would be very useful.

Thanks!

[HY1]

Hey there - I'm a different Harris first year who happened upon this thread. To answer the quant questions - you'll be fine. Yes, it's definitely a quantitative program, especially in the first two quarters, but there's a really wide range of backgrounds, and absolutely everyone gets through it. I'm very quantitative, but did not have an econ background before I got there, and the econ has been fine. Really. So has the stats. I think there's a bit of an overstatement of Harris = Quant = Impossible Quant that is not true. I'm not going to say it's easy, and you're just going to blow through all of the material, but with economics degrees, you're definitely ahead of the game. Also, while the first couple of quarters are quant-heavy, and it feels like they dominate your life, almost everyone is also involved with at least one student organization to provide the outlet for their specific policy interests. As far as international - something like 40% of the class is international students, so yep, there's plenty of stuff there. I definitely know of a second year who interned with the World Bank last summer. 

 

I also just want to reiterate some of the other stuff that Harris students have put here. Yes, they're doing a major overhaul this year. It's awesome. The new Dean is great, and while the student affairs staff is going through some growing pains, in my limited interactions with them so far, I'm confident they'll be all worked out by the fall. CDO is, undeniably, the weak spot, but like the other first year poster said, if you have some initiative, it's really not a problem to find internships. I have a great one for this summer that I'm very excited about. You just can't just wait for one to fall into your lap - but it does feel like CDO is getting better too, and being more communicative about opportunities. The last thing I want to say is that I'm genuinely challenged by my classmates every day. We're very collaborative, but also aren't afraid to speak our minds, and in most classes I'm usually surprised by the insights and backgrounds my classmates bring. I had other choices too, and honestly couldn't be happier where I'm at. 

[s33]

Harris Grad (2010) here.  What Harris1year and HY1 have said is consistent with my own experience- a few years distant though it is.

My Harris experience was very satisfying, indeed almost wholly positive.  A few points in response to the questions raised above:

• The 'quant' reputation is a bit  - and perhaps more  than a bit - exaggerated.  The required quant/econ courses are entirely manageable for anyone willing to apply themselves to a reasonable degree, regardless of  their academic background.  I do not recall any students not getting through the core.  There are tougher courses that are elective (and probably recommendable for someone with an economics background), but you can avoid those if you wish.
• The atmosphere among the Harris student community was very collaborative, not competitive at all.  I honestly cannot remember a single example of students competing with one another or not being willing to help another student out.
• The main negative I heard about was with the Career development office.  I was a mid-career student on leave from a position to which I have since returned, so I didn't require their services, but I did hear some complaints about the CDO not being as helpful as expected.  But that is 5 years ago now, so I cannot speak to the current situation.
• I suppose it should also be mentioned that Harris core classes tend to be rather large compared to some other programs.  This didn't bother me, in part because the subject matter of core classes is  conducive to the 'lecture' format (a format where class size is not so important). After the core- in other words, for the final four quarters of the program -the classes tend to get much smaller.

 

Harris has a lot to offer.  Some may find it a bit impersonal (perhaps a byproduct of class size). I found it plenty friendly, but in a quieter way than in some places (nobody gets in your face at Harris; if you want to be left alone you will be left alone, if you want company and friendship there are many opportunities, and I did not find the student body at all cliquish).  

 

Harris provides a fundamentally sound training for the aspiring policy professional, particularly those more interested in policy analysis that public sector management.  It has a fairly academic bent, which I liked.   I also found it a very nice student community.   There are other schools (Michigan and Berkeley come to mind) where I  suspect I would have had a similarly satisfying experience, but I have absolutely no regrets or complaints.   Knowing what I know now, I would make the same choice again.

[cszchung]

Hi All,

 

I appreciate all the Harris students/alum coming out and sharing their experiences. It really is quite helpful.

 

For me, the question is really whether or not Harris is worth the debt. I applied to the MSCAPP program, and it's the only one out there. The program and school sound fantastic - everything I'm looking for, really. However, I only received $11,500 in funding, so I would be looking at taking out huge loans to attend.

 

Is it worth it? Did you have funding? Would it be doable to work part time? Any insight would be appreciated, thanks.

[LLCoolJ1585]

Bump as this has info on Chicago Harris and CMU Heinz...

[anmanya]

On 3/12/2015 at 8:34 AM, tianqian345432 said:

Hello. I am actually planning going to Harris. I really love your post , and I have couples questions for you if you do not mind. First, I have heard that Harris is very quantitative, I am wondering how quantitative is that? I mean what kind of math/stat level is required to handle the core courses at Harris? I am an Econ major at UC Berkeley, and I have taken couple upper stat courses at Berkeley with pretty good grade, will I be able to handle the courses at Harris? Second, I am kind of worried about my future career development. I am really interested in working in like international organizations, such as UN or world bank...Does Harris offer or have any opportunities for this kind of jobs or programs? I have heard that Harris is more domestic policy oriented, and lack of international policy studies, so I kind of hesitate about the MPP. I know I may have so many questions. I f you have time, please give me some advice, because I am choosing between Chicago and Columbia, and it is a very painful process for me now and I really need some professional advice. Thank you very much!

Hey, what did you finally end up choosing? And what has been your experience? 

[VASU]

On 3/13/2018 at 6:50 PM, lackey said:

Points 4 and 5 were concerns for me as well. They tried to say they had economies of scale and that's why class size is increasing, but it still arguably detracts from the educational experience. I'm also much more of a fan of the HKS educational model (great pol electives and practical training) than theory-based UChicago. That all being said, Harris is a wonderful school and I'm relieved to have one non-NYC option.