I want to study the Middle East, but I don't know if as a Political Scientist or a Historian...

[KevinYoungX]

So, for a while now, I have been deeply struggling with how I want to study the Middle East. I know for certain that I want to do whatever it takes to become a scholar of the Middle East, but I cannot decide if I want to do so as a Political Scientist or Historian (or as an interdisciplinary scholar?), despite having taken numerous courses in both disciplines.

 

What are your thoughts? I need to figure out what kind of graduate school programs I should apply to...

 

To give you an idea of the topics that I am interested in studying:

• Western & non-Western relations (specifically, Europe/ the West and the Middle East/ Islam)
  • By "relations" I mean any sort of connection: trade, diplomacy, holy wars, non-holy wars, cultural exchanges, Occidentalism, etc.
• Western cultural influences on the Middle East and vice-versa
• Islam in the West and the West "in Islam" (such as the pieds-noirs and progressive women)
• Minorities in the Middle East (women, Kurds, gays, Jews, Turks, Shia Muslims, Yazidis, etc.)
• Development & evolution of gender, religion, culture, and nationalism
• Arab/ Israeli Conflict, Kurdish independence movements, nation-state debates regarding Iraq
• History of academia: debates regarding interdisciplinary studies, politics in academia, influence of Edward Said's "Orientalism"

Some of my academic influences are Bernard Lewis, Samuel Huntington, Francis Fukuyama, Niall Ferguson, Fouad Ajami, John Lewis Gaddis, Mary Lefkowitz, and Yaacov Shavit.

 

A separate issue I go back and forth on is whether or not I should become a "Europeanist" or a "scholar of the Middle East" given my research interests. I tend to think I am leaning more towards becoming a scholar of the Middle East, but if you have any thoughts on the topic, I would love to hear them.

 

Thanks for your help!

[Guest]

If you're talking about these aspects:

-analyzing diplomacy and relations with the West

-studying aspects of 'Political islam'

-analyzing modern-day Middle East conflicts (Israeli-Palestine Conflict, Iraq internal&sectarian issues)

-Hints and history of culture, sectarianism,social movements (ie:Arab Spring)

 

Then, Political Science science. Perhaps, even International Relations. Keep in mind that political science and international relations are very broad field. Perhaps trying looking up things such as Political Theory or International Relations with a concentration in the Middle East. It can even be qualified as Middle East Studies/Middle East Affairs/Middle East Politics. All of this falls under International Relations, regardless.

 

If you you were to search up History programs that focus on the Middle East, I am pretty sure that you might get things that involve analyzing the aspects of Mesopotamia, analyzing ancient languages (Aramaic, Syriac, etc), the times of Alexander the Great's empire, Ottoman empirical times, etc.At least, that's what it is like for most US graduate schools. The Middle East seem to have two concentrations for several schools within the US: ancient times or modern day aspects.

 

I express interest in the Middle East, but on the international crime, international conflict, and security aspects of it. I'm going for a field that falls within 'International Affairs' program. Specifically International Security with a focus on the Middle East. 

Edited February 1, 2015 by Guest

[KevinYoungX]

I have known a lot of people with your interests. While I completely understand the importance of studying Middle Eastern Security, I just think it is important to point out that there are other parts to the region as well. 

 

Every time I mention I study the Middle East, people respond "oh, so you study and hate terrorism and want to work for the government?" to which I reply "I do hate terrorism and even study it a bit, but that's not what I want to do with my life when I mention the Middle East."

 

Just wondering - I notice you are starting Arabic but do not have it fully down. Do you think that will hurt you a lot/ at all in terms of admissions for graduate programs? By the time I apply to graduate programs, I will have English, French, Arabic, and Hebrew down and am just wondering if that will help in terms of PhD admissions (or Master's admissions) at all...

[Guest]

Yes. I express interest in the cultural, social movements, historical, and linguistic based aspects in the Middle East as well. There are indeed other fields that can be focused on within the Middle East especially since it a region with one of the richest histories, and it is one of the most culturally misunderstood regions (especially among Western nations). I will admit that it sad that things such as terrorism,extremism, and Shar'iah are the first thing that come to many people's mind  when it comes to the Middle East. Countries such as Oman, UAE, Morocco,Qatar,Tunisia, and Jordan are perfect ME countries that are not living through the harsh horrors of frequent extremism or corruption.

 

Language aid will indeed help with the applications. Most of the applications will ask if you know any foreign language (from beginner to advanced)  or will ask if you have traveled/studied abroad. But, if you plan to go to any US international relations/political science/international affairs Master programs MANY of them will have mandatory language requirements that will need to be completed in order for you to graduate. Five out of seven of my selected schools on my list require me to meet a language requirement for graduation. 

Edited February 5, 2015 by Guest

[victorydance]

Just wanted to say that a lot of your interests don't even fall within the realm of IR, these are all pretty much comparative politics or could fall within history if you take a more qualitative and longitudinal approach to them:

 

• Minorities in the Middle East (women, Kurds, gays, Jews, Turks, Shia Muslims, Yazidis, etc.)
• Development & evolution of gender, religion, culture, and nationalism
• Kurdish independence movements, nation-state debates regarding Iraq

[KevinYoungX]

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone.

 

Victorydance - This is where my issue comes into play: should I become a Political Scientist or a Historian? I do not know *pulls hair out*

 

OneLove21 - Do you know anything about the importance of studying abroad for admissions? Being a gay white American Zionist, visiting most of the Middle East has not been a safe option for me, so I will have studied abroad in Israel and France, but not any places like Jordan or Morocco. I just really do not want to be penalized for not traveling to places where the people want to kill me...

[bluenebraska]

KevinYoungX - I think you should perhaps revise your opinion of places like Jordan and Morocco. Having studied for quite awhile in Jordan, I have a number of friends who are also white American Zionists (and anti-Zionists) who have had no problem living in Jordan. You would, perhaps, be amazed at the safety of Jordan and Morocco. Additionally, you may or may not be aware that Israelis are fully able to travel to Morocco and many do; Morocco never renounced the citizenship of its Jewish population that left for Israel in the 50s-70s. Morocco also has an embassy in Tel Aviv. 

 

As for being gay, yes, this is a problem in much of the Middle East, but it isn't as though someone can look at you and tell that you are either a) gay or a Zionist. You shouldn't have any problems.

 

I would say that, unless your interests are solely in Israeli and Palestinian society (which it sounds like they're not), then you should invest some time in studying abroad in the Arab Middle East. Kurdistan is out of the question, naturally, and unfortunately places like Syria that were popular in years past are now generally off the list. Yet Morocco, Lebanon, Tunisia, Jordan, the Gulf and even Egypt are not out of the question. This would also likely help you expand your list of inspirations, which seem to consist of many Orientalist scholars not well thought of in the Middle East studies academy. Read some Said, for instance. You also definitely need to have a strong foundation of Arabic for jobs inside the academy and out in the policy world, if your focus is on the Arab Middle East and not just the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

[victorydance]

Victorydance - This is where my issue comes into play: should I become a Political Scientist or a Historian? I do not know *pulls hair out*

 

 

I think this is actually a fairly easy decision, just because the disciplines are so vastly different despite some overlap. Comparative politics does incorporate some degree of history, but for the most part it's a small portion of the analysis (although there are scholars out there that deal almost solely with historical comparative methods). Similarly, you can specialize in political history, but it's still completely different than political science as a discipline. It basically comes down to which type of methods and tools you want to use to conduct your research and/or how you want to develop/look through your questions.

 

History involves doing research on historical texts and making assumptions or generalizations based on the evidence.

 

Political science is more of a 'science.' It involves developing a theory and finding evidence to support it, whether through qualitative or quantitative means. 

 

So in essence, they are actually nearly complete opposite ways of doing research. 

 

Let's break it down with an example: say, Kurdish independence movements (bear with me, I am not a specialist by any means on the ME).

 

From a historical perspective, you will look at the Kurdish development and how it came to be. Contrast that with other minorities or majorities in their region, and begin to make some generalizations based on how they are different economically, socially, culturally, politically, ect. 

 

From a comparative politics perspective, you will look at how Kurdish politics functions within the bigger realm of the state, and compare the different Kurdish minorities in each country. How do they influence state politics? How has their claim for independence affected their relations with other groups within their state? Why does one Kurdish group have more autonomy in one country but not the other (perhaps Turkey? I don't actually know)? Does more autonomy lead to more ethnic violence or less?

 

You could even ask the same question 'why does one group of Kurds have more autonomy in X country than others." But how you get there is going to involve a completely different process. 

 

Additionally, history is a little more broad, because you can specialize in questions on any spectrum whether social, cultural, political, economic, or linguistically. Political science is always going to be how it relates to politics. But as we know, there is politics in everything so of course it can be broad, but the difference is the main focus of any political science question is always tied to politics. Or more specifically, the relations between two or more actors. 

Edited February 6, 2015 by victorydance

[victorydance]

So basically, what it comes down to is what you are interested in...

 

Are you really interested in the politics of the ME and/or North Africa? Are you interested in how political dynamics affect X, Y, or Z within the region? Do you think analytically more like a scientist? Do you like to develop your own theory and try to support it? Do you like mathematics and/or statistical analysis? This is more in line with comparative politics or IR.

 

Do you like to read a lot of primary sources and do lots of archive and bibliographical work? Are you interested in languages and like to read texts from different languages? Do you like to analyze problems by taking a broad approach and then making generalizations about the sources? Do you like to compare and contrast different perspectives and accounts of history? This is history. 

[KevinYoungX]

Bluenebraska - Thanks for your opinions. I am not changing my mind about Jordan or Morocco. After all, Morocco was just internationally shamed for arresting a gay man and Jordan regularly arrests gay men too. There is no such thing as a progressive Islamic country, only Islamic countries which are less regressive (especially Turkey and - if they ever gain freedom - Kurdistan).

 

And I am very well aware of Said. I don't think one can read anything about the Middle East and not be aware of the Lewis vs. Said debates. Needless to say, I think Said is a complete disgrace to Western academia and is a complete joke.

 

And just for the record: I have visited the West Bank and will be living/ studying abroad in Jerusalem soon, where I will spend some time visiting Amman, Nazareth, and Ramallah. I do not mind visiting these Islamic countries, my only problem is with living there. As for languages, I am studying English, French, Arabic, and Hebrew.

 

As a gay white American Zionist, I should not be expected to change my lifestyle to visit countries that the West funds with foreign aid. After all, these Muslims do not take off their headscarves or start eating pork when they move to France or the United States. If a particular country is so intolerant of someone for being gay or Jewish, for instance, that particular country should not seriously expect the respect of those people they are demonizing and literally killing. (And btw, if you think gay people cannot be recognized on sight like whites, Jews, or Arabs... have you met many gay men? We sure do stick out - almost as much as lesbians.)

Edited February 7, 2015 by KevinYoungX

[KevinYoungX]

Victorydance - Here is the part of the issue: in a sense, I prefer how historians study - but, at the same time, I really like WHAT (not how) Political Scientists study.

[Tachiyaku]

"these muslims" huh? If you think Jews and Arabs are recognizable on sight then maybe you ought to study computer science or some other discipline where you don't have to talk about actual people - especially those you clearly have such disdain for.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Tachiyaku

[KevinYoungX]

Tachiyaku - I think you should not be studying any of the liberal arts if you are going to allow political correctness to affect your conclusions.

 

I did not say that all Jews or Arabs can be recognized on sight. Of course not. However, many obviously can be. I reject your notion that I have "disdain" for people just because I point out facts. Most of the time you can tell a person has African ancestry is black because of their skin tone. Most of the time you can tell a guy is gay by how they dress. Of course, there are many exceptions but exceptions do not mean the general rule of thumb is cast out.

 

Nevertheless, none of what you said actually rebukes any of what I said. Furthermore, it has nothing to do with my original post. If you are going to comment here, I am going to expect you to do one of two things:

• post something that attempts to somehow answer my original post OR
• post something that attempts to somehow respond to one of the claims I make in the succeeding posts

 

If you do neither of those things, your post in no way adds to any discussion and I will be left with no choice but to mark down your comment and report it as spam. Thank you and have a nice day.

[KevinYoungX]

General note to everyone:

 

If you are not going to post a relevant comment to the discussion or you are simply going to attack me, do not post on this thread.

 

Such comments are not welcomed. Thank you for your understanding.

[Eigen]

As with most discussions, they are, in fact, dependent not only on the one who started them, but also the others who want to participate. In short, it's not up to anyone who can or can't post in a given thread, or what they can/can't talk about. 

 

If it gets too off topic, over the line, or chaotic, feel free to report it and we will look at moderating it. 

[Aubstopper]

Without getting into an argument, based upon your responses and interests (which as of now seem quite broad and un-centered), I'd say take the political science route since you seem to have a strong political slant to your work. Having a slant is fine, but it might be more acceptable in the polysci realm than in history or a NELC program.

I did both my undergraduate and graduate work in Modern Middle Eastern Studies and lived/traveled to various parts of the Middle East as well. I think that it's a good start studying abroad in Israel and gaining Arabic language proficiency there instead of the various Arabic nations you mentioned, given that (at least from my experience) many of the profs through Rothberg share similar views as you. If you're serious about getting trained in Arabic it's important that you learn in a place where the dialect is relevant to your area of study. So, if you're interested in studying Israel-Palestine, gaining proficiency in  a Levantine dialect would be most appropriate. Moroccan Arabic, while they teach and speak modern standard beautifully, their dialect is rarely understood by anyone outside of the area. Egyptian dialect is not a bad option either.   
  

[KevinYoungX]

Aubstopper - thank you for your advice and just generally responding to my prompt.

 

My plan when I visit Israel is to visit the West Bank and Jordan (and maybe Egypt or Saudi Arabia too, if money permits). I just do not feel safe living in those Islamic countries given my background.

 

You are also right to suggest that I agree with a lot of Israeli academics and I am considering applying to a PhD program at Tel Aviv University. The only thing that concerns me is that there programs are not as well-ranked as most American PhD programs.

 

And just to clarify - I do not mind taking politics out of academia. If you look at my first posts in this threat, there is nothing political about my posts. However, I am routinely dragged into political discussions and am not willing to lie about my views to please some anti-Western students or scholars.

[Aubstopper]

Just so you know, you cannot go into Saudi Arabia with an Israeli visa on your passport (same goes for Syria, Lebanon, many of the gulf countries as well as some African countries); i'd suggest getting separate visa papers for Israel to stamp so you can travel without restrictions. 

Tel Aviv University is not a bad school in the least bit and Israeli scholars, I think, are among the most underappreciated scholars (due to some US universities having academic/cultural boycotts), though I've noticed many who do half time at a US university and half time at an Israeli university. Given my specific area of study (modern Jewish thought), going to a PhD program in Israel is not a completely bad idea---however, they just don't have the funding that American schools tend to have....and the political extremes I was forced to choose between made me very uncomfortable.  

All I'm saying is that some people can separate their politics from their work, some can't, and to some, their politics are their work. If you feel uncomfortable being able to freely express your views in certain places in academia, look to where you'd be happy and accepted. When you're out there, reach out to academics in your area of interest and see what they say regarding where you should go/what direction you should take your research (ie polysci, history, nelc, etc).
 

[KevinYoungX]

Aubstopper - I know that I can't go to Saudi Arabia (or many Islamic countries) with an Israeli stamp. However, Israel stopped stamping passports (at least they haven't stamped mine).

[Aubstopper]

Apologies...I was under the impression that you were going there to study not just visit. I kinda just ignored the parts of the thread that looked potentially volatile. I was warning you because when I lived and studied there, my student visa was taped right into my passport, which limited my travel.

 

[KevinYoungX]

No worries - thanks for your thoughts!

[KevinYoungX]

To clarify: I will study abroad in Jerusalem, then visit Jordan, West Bank, and maybe Saudi Arabia or Egypt (while studying in Jerusalem).

Edited February 10, 2015 by KevinYoungX

[farsoodgee]

Studying Arabic in Israel would be a big mistake. Many better places in the ME to study Arabic (that make much more sense).

[KevinYoungX]

Farsoodgee - I have to disagree with you there. Israel is 20% Arab and I will be studying Arabic at the best university in the Middle East. (Also, East Jerusalem is mostly Arab, although that should have no effect on the quality of the program).

 

But if you really feel that way, could you try to give some suggestions for where in the Middle East a gay guy like myself should study Arabic?

[Stephαnie]

Hi, it seems like your interests are all over the place, but if you're interested in going this route:

 

• Development & evolution of gender, religion, culture, and nationalism

 

I would suggest literature or cultural studies, basically a field that seeks to describe what's there. That would open up more options for you professionally.

 

You also don't necessarily have to travel to any country you don't want to go to. Muslims travel just like anyone else, and there are diasporic communities everywhere. Any big city in the U.S., Canada, England etc. will have mosques, restaurants, and citizens who identify with Islam in all sorts of diverse ways. This personal essay, called "Practicing Islam in Short Shorts," is an example: http://truestories.gawker.com/practicing-islam-in-short-shorts-1683991294

 

It does take a certain level of trust and humility to walk into a space where white males aren't the majority, but once you are willing to do that, you might be surprised at what you discover. Just sit down, enjoy the food, listen to the conversations around you, and observe the clientele. Believe it or not, people who run restaurants are there to make money, not to kill customers.

 

Anyway. It's something to think about.