Are the majority of apps to top schools that good?

[JimmyLLang]

As I think about the top schools and hundreds of apps and acceptance of like 5 percent I wonder are all apps worthy of applying there? I know there is really no way to know a reasonable answer. I guess since only 10 get picked out of 200 then we know that the answer is no all should not apply. But I wonder does everyone that applies to Duke have a masters or two or three with 3.8 gpa? Consider myself I have or will an MDiv evangelical school ThM different evangelical school highly respected for language, an MA in linguistics from a regionally accredited linguistics only school. All my gpa's will be 3.8 or more. I have strike against me for age. I have 12 years as senior pastor does that count for anything? I have read yes and no.  Am I wasting my time? lol.

[MidwesternAloha]

You can usually read this information in a school/program's annual report. I know Duke has their statistics posted for each program, usually if you dig a little bit on the website you can find it. You'll see average applicant stats (usually more varied), average offers, and average matriculated. For the most part, people apply where they think they have a competitive advantage (or chance)

[xypathos]

It's a matter of applying broadly and catering each application to each school, and if the school encourages it - reach out to PoIs, share your interests and a quick numerical breakdown (GGPA: 3.5, 164V, etc). If they respond with something like "Are you familiar with the work of XYZ?" take that as a hint that they're suggesting you not apply and maybe XYZ is a better fit. Some PoI are matter of fact and will invite you to explain more about your interests and others will be frank about your chances. Utilize them! From my own experience, keep intro emails concise and no more than two paragraphs, probably one, really.

 

Usual advice of when contacting LOR writers - ask them what kind of letter they might write or what kind of student they think you are in terms of % that they've had before. For example, if they say you're in the Top 25%, you'll want to find yourself a different writer. From here at VDS/GDR and friends at PTS and Yale, Adcoms expect LoRs to praise you as the second coming of Jesus, everyone does it. So, ask the writer to quantify you in terms of percentages - Top 10%. As per faculty I've spoken with, "LoR can only hurt you. Nearly every LoR writer is too generous with praise so we have to learn to read between the lines for criticism, and when we see it, it's like sharks drawn to blood. Ask your writers to stick fairly quantifiable terms and if they say you're a "Top 25% student," take it as you need to find a different writer or maybe you're not ready to apply yet."

 

Where are you looking to apply to Jimmy, as far as fields go? We have older students in their 30s and 40s here at VDS so it's certainly possible.

 

As far as VDS and apps go, about 200 for 9-12 spots every year. A handful are automatically declined every year because they send VDS/GDR the wrong stuff - like an essay about why you want to study at Duke, or that you want to study XYZ when there is no faculty member interested in that field, etc. Advice given to current students and those that email in - 90%+ on V-GRE, UG grades aren't given much weight at all (surprisingly), and individual courses on the transcript are almost never looked at.

 

If you have more questions I can probably answer them as they relate to VDS. I presume to some degree what works at VDS also holds for other schools, to a limited degree - I realize VDS is more or less T2 depending on field. 

[sacklunch]

As I think about the top schools and hundreds of apps and acceptance of like 5 percent I wonder are all apps worthy of applying there? I know there is really no way to know a reasonable answer. I guess since only 10 get picked out of 200 then we know that the answer is no all should not apply. But I wonder does everyone that applies to Duke have a masters or two or three with 3.8 gpa? Consider myself I have or will an MDiv evangelical school ThM different evangelical school highly respected for language, an MA in linguistics from a regionally accredited linguistics only school. All my gpa's will be 3.8 or more. I have strike against me for age. I have 12 years as senior pastor does that count for anything? I have read yes and no.  Am I wasting my time? lol.

 

As you said there is no way to really know the quality of the apps overall. Your background seems strong and I imagine it will set you apart from many of the applicants. To my mind, the biggest 'strike' against you will be your age, since I'm assuming you are well into your 30's+ if you have 12 years of work experience. It's not to say this experience isn't useful for your proposed study, in so far as you want to study 'theology'. Though, again, some may conclude that this will make you less open (academically and personally). Your prospective adviser (at a TT school) will likely expect you to produce some good scholarship when you finish and that prospective questioned if the student is older. 

[Aubstopper]

It really depends on the school. I was lauded by several POIs for taking time off between my MA and applying to PhDs to work and pay down my loans. I've been almost 4 years out of academia and have been saving up for applications over the past year. Not everyone has the opportunity, financial or otherwise, to go directly from one degree to the next with no gaps-- especially since we're in the Humanities. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by Aubstopper

[marXian]

It's hard to say whether or not a majority of apps are competitive (though if we're talking strictly more than 50%, I'd have to say yes.) When I was applying (2011), I was told by a DGS at a TT program that they do get a sizable fraction of applicants who have absolutely no business applying, either because their GRE scores or GPA(s) were incredibly low, they had degrees that were way out of field, and any number of other reasons one could think of. So if a school gets 200 applications the year you apply, you're not going up against 199 other people who have exactly your credentials or better. If you have a M* degree or two, your application is likely going to get a good look.

 

Looking up program statistics reports is a good idea. You'll see that acceptance rates do vary year to year, but it will give you an idea of the range and average. Most don't break down the rates by track, so you're looking at the overall acceptance rate, which could be a bit misleading in some cases depending on your specific field.

Edited February 3, 2015 by marXian

[theophany]

I have 12 years as senior pastor does that count for anything? I have read yes and no.  Am I wasting my time? lol.

 

 

Everyone else has pretty thoroughly responded to your other questions, so I'll take this one. Yes and no is the right answer, but needs some elaboration. If your interest is in practical theology or you're applying to schools with more or less of a confessional/religious ethos, then in some cases having experience as a pastor might help (especially if you're of the same denomination as the school). If you're applying to programs that are secular, then it's probably not going to sway one way or another. If you're applying to a secular program and you talk your ministry in your application or your project seems to ministerial, then it very well may work against you. Because of your talk of languages, I'm assuming you're in Bible, which splits into wings that very much are confessionally-focussed and those that are rather aggressively anti-confessional. Ultimately though, your question "Does it count for anything?" the long and short is no, not in an academic environment. 

[JimmyLLang]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. Most of this lines up with what I have read previously. As far as my ministry experience tying into field of study (theology). No, I am not inclined that direction. I assume therefore it is of virtually no use. I guess I was just wondering if they would look at that like " oh you have a family, full time ministry, full time student, and good grades. Yes that shows you are not flippantly doing things". Probably all depends on season of app, poi, school, etc. All I think we can ever know is that we do not know. I would add to answer some of the points. I am not looking for a confessional place necessarily. I have not really thought VDS was a fit for me. 

[xypathos]

As far as VDS, it really depends on what you want to do within theology. If you're talking something more traditional - there's DeHart and Morrill. I haven't taken a class with either so I can't comment personally, I know DeHart is interested in God-centered theology (trinity, God's relation the created order, etc) and Morrill is interested in liturgy and sacraments. Morrill's added bonus is being a Jesuit priest and while he's on leave this year, I've been told he's an amazingly humble person that genuinely cares about discussing how these ideas affect students on a personal level.

 

Armour does feminist theology. Feminist theology isn't my field but her students adore her.

 

Meeks is retiring at the end of the year.

 

If you're more interested in practical theology, that's over in the RPC Department.