Decisions 2015

[JTE]

Question: What is the best way to look at placement statistics for departments and individual POI?

[dr. t]

Your POI should list all the dissertations she or he advised. Plug those names into The Great Google. The department should maintain a similar listing.

[Chiqui74]

Most of the schools I looked into had their placement information on the website.  Placement rates for specific professors is a bit trickier to find.

[JTE]

Thanks!

[ashiepoo72]

I would ask outright if you can't find any statistics on the website.

[FTofHistory]

I've never posted here, but after receiving the majority of my decisions I have a question.

 

I've been accepted into several history PhD programs with full funding. My top two choices of the programs I've been accepted to are University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign) and Minnesota-Twin Cities. 

 

Today I received my rejection from UofChicago, but was accepted with full tuition to their MAPSS 1 year program (Masters of Arts in Social Sciences). Is it worth it to consider a program like this from a school with as strong a reputation as Chicago? Will attending a program like this make my application stronger should I apply again to the "very top" programs in the country? I'd love to go to either of my top choices, but part of me wonders if its worth it to try again with a strengthened resume in order to increase my chances of getting hired when all of this is over and done with. 

 

I just wanted to get an opinion from people who seem to know more about this whole process than I do. 

[ashiepoo72]

UIUC and Minn are pretty cream of the crop in my opinion. They aren't top 10, but both are within the top 30 (which if you've read, telkanuru showed that's where the "prestige factor" is)

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend anyone turn down funded, well-ranked PhDs that also happen to be their top choices. Even with a MAPSS degree, that won't guarantee you get in ANYWHERE next application season, let alone improve on what you've done this season. There are people on this board with MAs from prestigious programs that didn't get accepted anywhere because it's a crapshoot. I personally wouldn't risk it if I got into great programs already.

On another note, are you visiting Minn? I'll be out there at the end of March and I'm ecstatic. I've only heard great things. Maybe we will see each other

Congrats on your success this season!

[FTofHistory]

That's what I thought, but I wanted to ask! Do you know where telkanuru made this "prestige post?" i'd be interested in reading it.

 

And yes, I'll be attending Minn's weekend! I'm very excited for it, and I'm certain we'll see each other then.

[ashiepoo72]

Here it is:

I guess I'll be seeing you in a few weeks! What's your field?

[FTofHistory]

Modern American, Mostly cultural/social history. You?

[ashiepoo72]

Modern US, WWII and the Cold War, mainly the intersection of social and political in a global context. I'm getting into transgenerational migration lately.

[jpb]

I've never posted here, but after receiving the majority of my decisions I have a question.

 

I've been accepted into several history PhD programs with full funding. My top two choices of the programs I've been accepted to are University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign) and Minnesota-Twin Cities. 

 

Today I received my rejection from UofChicago, but was accepted with full tuition to their MAPSS 1 year program (Masters of Arts in Social Sciences). Is it worth it to consider a program like this from a school with as strong a reputation as Chicago? Will attending a program like this make my application stronger should I apply again to the "very top" programs in the country? I'd love to go to either of my top choices, but part of me wonders if its worth it to try again with a strengthened resume in order to increase my chances of getting hired when all of this is over and done with. 

 

I just wanted to get an opinion from people who seem to know more about this whole process than I do. 

 

The MAPSS program has a high rate of success when it comes to getting applicants into high-level PhD programs, including UChicago itself. They have a lot of freedom and support to pursue whatever they'd like for their thesis. The sticking point for you, though, is that they require a gap year before professors will be recommenders for your PhD applications. They (rightfully) argue that they cannot possibly know your work prior to the completion of your first term -- thus, it essentially becomes a two-year program. If you don't want to wait that long, I'd look at accepting one of your PhD offers, no matter how good UChicago's faculty may be.

 

To put this in perspective, I'm currently finishing an MA degree at the University of Chicago in a different field than US History, but I'm looking to transition over to US History for my PhD. My lack of history coursework on my transcript (as it has all been this year) is the reason UChicago denied me, despite having multiple recommendations from the faculty. We've talked a lot about the MAPSS program as a one-year solution for me before reapplying. So I'm quite familiar w/ the workings of the MAPSS program and the quirks of it.

Edited March 6, 2015 by jpb

[disposableheroes]

After visiting UCSB, I have to say its pretty difficult to say no to such a beautiful city and campus. Another program offers me a better package and perhaps more funding opportunity in the summer, but it looks like I'll move to CA.  I know there was a thread/post on how to politely decline offers, does anyone remember where?

[mvlchicago]

I am unsure if this is actually a decision to make, but I'm wondering if anyone had input as to what specifically a masters program would have to offer in order to take it over a Ph.D. Context: I have a Ph.D offer from Brown, and I'm speaking tomorrow with someone at Yale tomorrow about a Masters there + the funding they can allocate to me. I feel a 'lil bad if they're making massive amount of effort for me, and want to give them some consideration, but I honestly don't know what all they could give me to turn down Brown #crowdsourcing . 

[Chiqui74]

I'd take a PhD at Brown over an MA at Yale.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Chiqui74

[jpb]

I am unsure if this is actually a decision to make, but I'm wondering if anyone had input as to what specifically a masters program would have to offer in order to take it over a Ph.D. Context: I have a Ph.D offer from Brown, and I'm speaking tomorrow with someone at Yale tomorrow about a Masters there + the funding they can allocate to me. I feel a 'lil bad if they're making massive amount of effort for me, and want to give them some consideration, but I honestly don't know what all they could give me to turn down Brown #crowdsourcing . 

 

This may not pertain to you, particularly, but I turned down a PhD offer to take an MA offer at a better program. Obviously, Brown is a lovely school. You don't really have that concern. However, I'm thankful I did take my MA offer because my interests have shifted dramatically over the past two years, which has been a product of my particular research projects, conversations with professors, etc. I'd be nearing my comps in a PhD program right now, and I'd have no opportunity to act upon my growth and evolution as a scholar.

 

As my thesis advisor told me last week: "Too many graduate students are concerned about finishing coursework early. Coursework is how you prepare for your research, how you learn to be in academia, how you prepare yourself for a future role as an educator, and how you find yourself as a scholar. Don't be so quick to leave it."

 

For some people, the MA program can be transformative. It was for me.

 

EDIT: However, my transformative experience is primarily why my applications weren't particularly strong this year. I was in flux. So maybe it wasn't a great thing, after all. 

Edited March 6, 2015 by jpb

[mvlchicago]

I'd take a PhD at Brown over an MA at Yale.

 

That's where I am right now, outside of an obscene funding offer + guarantee of phd admission so long as I keep on track. Just wondering if there would be some *thing* that would make people change their mind (Yale buys you a personal library, gives you 40k/year with tuition waived, etc.)

This may not pertain to you, particularly, but I turned down a PhD offer to take an MA offer at a better program. Obviously, Brown is a lovely school. You don't really have that concern. However, I'm thankful I did take my MA offer because my interests have shifted dramatically over the past two years, which has been a product of my particular research projects, conversations with professors, etc. I'd be nearing my comps in a PhD program right now, and I'd have no opportunity to act upon my growth and evolution as a scholar.

 

As my thesis advisor told me last week: "Too many graduate students are concerned about finishing coursework early. Coursework is how you prepare for your research, how you learn to be in academia, how you prepare yourself for a future role as an educator, and how you find yourself as a scholar. Don't be so quick to leave it."

 

For some people, the MA program can be transformative. It was for me.

 

EDIT: However, my transformative experience is primarily why my applications weren't particularly strong this year. I was in flux. So maybe it wasn't a great thing, after all. 

This is actually a really helpful thought. I'm definitely at least attending their visitation day, and speaking with a few faculty members. I think they'd still have to make an enormously strong case for it, but this definitely was an interesting perspective from which I'll think more . 

[ashiepoo72]

I'd consider an MA only if I couldn't get into a well ranked and fully funded PhD program, but we all have our own criteria. 

 

Don't get me wrong--there have been moments where I wondered if I did this again next year, if I could aim even higher and try to break the top 10. But honestly, that's not as important to me. I'm ecstatic about the programs that've accepted me, and they are all better fits for me than any of the top 10 programs. I know I emphasize prestige less than many people--this isn't to say I'm not aware that it matters, and that rank won't factor into my final decision. Ultimately, however, Brown is a well regarded program by any estimation. It would be a different story if you got into a lower-ranked program with poor job prospects at the end of it.

[Joan Callamezzo]

I've never posted here, but after receiving the majority of my decisions I have a question.

 

I've been accepted into several history PhD programs with full funding. My top two choices of the programs I've been accepted to are University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign) and Minnesota-Twin Cities. 

 

Today I received my rejection from UofChicago, but was accepted with full tuition to their MAPSS 1 year program (Masters of Arts in Social Sciences). Is it worth it to consider a program like this from a school with as strong a reputation as Chicago? Will attending a program like this make my application stronger should I apply again to the "very top" programs in the country? I'd love to go to either of my top choices, but part of me wonders if its worth it to try again with a strengthened resume in order to increase my chances of getting hired when all of this is over and done with. 

 

I just wanted to get an opinion from people who seem to know more about this whole process than I do. 

I am in Art History (so YMMV..) but I know a couple people from undergrad who did MAPSS and and pretty familiar with the program. Full tuition at MAPSS is practically (entirely?) unheard of, so you should take the offer as a HUGE endorsement of your preparation and potential. Are you applying straight from undergrad? This may not be the popular opinion, but if you can manage it financially and don't already have a masters I would choose the MAPSS over your PhD acceptances. If you were able to get into two respectably ranked programs with only your undergrad qualifications, a masters at Chicago could land you in the top tier for your next round. 

 

We all know it is unwise to take on significant debt or pay out of pocket for a humanities degree, but I know from experience that it can sometimes pay off. I was accepted into what I thought was a fully funded MA program, but in my second year our department experienced major budget cuts and my fellowship was converted into a TAship. During my last semester I opted to turn down my TA funding and pay out of pocket because my teaching load was outrageous and preventing me from doing my best work on my thesis. It was a scary decision but it paid off because I am now deciding between multiple Ivy league PhD offers. If you decide to take the MAPSS use the added financial burden as a motivator to do your best work and make the absolute most out of your year at Chicago. 

[FTofHistory]

I am in Art History (so YMMV..) but I know a couple people from undergrad who did MAPSS and and pretty familiar with the program. Full tuition at MAPSS is practically (entirely?) unheard of, so you should take the offer as a HUGE endorsement of your preparation and potential. Are you applying straight from undergrad? This may not be the popular opinion, but if you can manage it financially and don't already have a masters I would choose the MAPSS over your PhD acceptances. If you were able to get into two respectably ranked programs with only your undergrad qualifications, a masters at Chicago could land you in the top tier for your next round. 

 

We all know it is unwise to take on significant debt or pay out of pocket for a humanities degree, but I know from experience that it can sometimes pay off. I was accepted into what I thought was a fully funded MA program, but in my second year our department experienced major budget cuts and my fellowship was converted into a TAship. During my last semester I opted to turn down my TA funding and pay out of pocket because my teaching load was outrageous and preventing me from doing my best work on my thesis. It was a scary decision but it paid off because I am now deciding between multiple Ivy league PhD offers. If you decide to take the MAPSS use the added financial burden as a motivator to do your best work and make the absolute most out of your year at Chicago. 

 

I finished my undergraduate degree in May 2014 (I didn't want to apply until I completed my senior thesis and I am currently working at a non-profit law firm. I felt like working in another field history majors go into would help me ensure that getting a PhD was what I wanted), so yes, basically applying straight out of undergrad.

 

I think you bring up a lot of the points I was thinking about. I could handle the financial burden of living in Chicago for a year - I just don't want to risk not getting in anywhere the next time I apply if that makes sense. I applied to quite a few of the top ten schools this round and was rejected from all of them, so I have to wonder if a MAPSS degree will cause them to change their minds. 

 

Thank you for the reply though. I definitely won't make a decision until I visit programs, but any advice, especially from multiple voices, is helpful.

Edited March 6, 2015 by FTofHistory

[ashiepoo72]

I have to respectfully disagree. The only reason I got an MA--and the debt that came with it--was because I couldn't get into a well-ranked PhD without it. I would never, ever, ever recommend an MA--even if tuition is covered, because you will go into debt for the rest of your costs--to someone who was accepted at a place like Brown, which is ranked 18! Unless you have a ton of money saved to pay your way through an MA, I wouldn't do it. I would not wish the level of unsubsidized debt that I have on anyone, even my own worst enemy. Grad students only get unsubsidized loans, which means interest starts racking up immediately, and then is added to the principal loan when you graduate, so you'll start getting interest fees that include your past interest and principal. In math terms, this equals shitshow.

 

You have your own decision to make, but I honestly would not recommend an MA to someone who got into a top 20 program. You're in the sweet spot rank-wise, and Brown is a well known, excellent program that applicants with MAs would love to get accepted by.

[jpb]

I have to respectfully disagree. The only reason I got an MA--and the debt that came with it--was because I couldn't get into a well-ranked PhD without it. I would never, ever, ever recommend an MA--even if tuition is covered, because you will go into debt for the rest of your costs--to someone who was accepted at a place like Brown, which is ranked 18! Unless you have a ton of money saved to pay your way through an MA, I wouldn't do it. I would not wish the level of unsubsidized debt that I have on anyone, even my own worst enemy. Grad students only get unsubsidized loans, which means interest starts racking up immediately, and then is added to the principal loan when you graduate, so you'll start getting interest fees that include your past interest and principal. In math terms, this equals shitshow.

You have your own decision to make, but I honestly would not recommend an MA to someone who got into a top 20 program. You're in the sweet spot rank-wise, and Brown is a well known, excellent program that applicants with MAs would love to get accepted by.

As someone who has enjoyed his MA experience, as mentioned above, I agree with this.

[turnings]

FTofHistory: I would accept the MAPSS offer, provided you can swing it financially. I know a number of people who completed the MAPSS degree and now attend top ten doctoral programs. They would all say that Chicago got them there (indeed I've heard it said by more than one person that their year there was the most intellectually stimulating of their career).

 

I would not turn down a PhD offer from Brown.

 

(to clarify: by "swing it financially" I meant not taking on any debt whatsoever).

Edited March 6, 2015 by turnings

[ashiepoo72]

Not to derail the conversation here, but is anyone else visiting Davis this weekend? And, if so, who will join me in partaking in beer?

[dr. t]

I have to respectfully disagree. The only reason I got an MA--and the debt that came with it--was because I couldn't get into a well-ranked PhD without it. I would never, ever, ever recommend an MA--even if tuition is covered, because you will go into debt for the rest of your costs--to someone who was accepted at a place like Brown, which is ranked 18! Unless you have a ton of money saved to pay your way through an MA, I wouldn't do it. I would not wish the level of unsubsidized debt that I have on anyone, even my own worst enemy. Grad students only get unsubsidized loans, which means interest starts racking up immediately, and then is added to the principal loan when you graduate, so you'll start getting interest fees that include your past interest and principal. In math terms, this equals shitshow.

 

You have your own decision to make, but I honestly would not recommend an MA to someone who got into a top 20 program. You're in the sweet spot rank-wise, and Brown is a well known, excellent program that applicants with MAs would love to get accepted by.

 

As someone who did an MA first, I also agree with this. Remember that Yale and Harvard both have many reciprocal agreements with Brown and are pretty near by, so there's still plenty of opportunity to make strong connections.