How to ensure department pays for visit after acceptance?

[ritapita]

I have been accepted to a program that I now have reason to believe does not fund visits for accepted students.  This program is in one of those cities that regardless of how close you are, it is a pain to fly to because it is not a major hub, and tickets are stupidly expensive because of the location.  There is no way I can go out of pocket several hundred dollars to visit a program that I may or may not attend. If it was like a $300 ticket, okay maybe.  Honestly, one of the deal breakers for this program will be if they are unwilling to fund a visit for me to decide, especially if they do expect me to accept and I then have to spend at least a couple grand moving there. For me, it makes the statement that their students should want the program more than the program wants the students.  I am all for going out of pocket if I chose to visit a program before I apply or before they accept me, and have done so a few times, but if a programs accepts you, isn't it kind of standard protocol for them to host a visit? Am I way off base with this? Recommendations on how I go about tactfully asking for them to fly me out?

[geographyrocks]

All of that goes through the graduate department (most of the time).  They may or may not give departments the funds to have students visit.  The easiest solution is to simply ask your POI or the graduate coordinator if they cover the cost of a visit.  That's what I had to do.  And they didn't act like I was a crazy person for asking. 

[MathCat]

I have been accepted to a program that I now have reason to believe does not fund visits for accepted students.  This program is in one of those cities that regardless of how close you are, it is a pain to fly to because it is not a major hub, and tickets are stupidly expensive because of the location.  There is no way I can go out of pocket several hundred dollars to visit a program that I may or may not attend. If it was like a $300 ticket, okay maybe.  Honestly, one of the deal breakers for this program will be if they are unwilling to fund a visit for me to decide, especially if they do expect me to accept and I then have to spend at least a couple grand moving there. For me, it makes the statement that their students should want the program more than the program wants the students.  I am all for going out of pocket if I chose to visit a program before I apply or before they accept me, and have done so a few times, but if a programs accepts you, isn't it kind of standard protocol for them to host a visit? Am I way off base with this? Recommendations on how I go about tactfully asking for them to fly me out?

Can you not afford to go? If so, explain that. They will understand, even if they can't reimburse.

 

Do you just not want to pay to go (but could)? If so, it still doesn't hurt to ask, but there may be many reasons beyond just the program having the attitude you suggested. One of the schools I was accepted to simply doesn't have very much money to fly prospective students out on visits. They do reimburse a bit, but it is only about 1/3 of my costs. They were very apologetic that they could not cover more. If this is the case for you, I would suggest you re-evaluate. I would personally feel pretty silly to not even consider a program just because it would have cost me to visit, when I could have afforded it. It will look like such a minor expense in a few years. You did choose to apply to this school for a reason, and I would keep that in mind.

[BeatrizBear]

Just ask. If the department has the funds for it, then they will help you either by giving you a stipend or paying all the costs. Not all departments can afford to pay their students' travel costs. It's not that they don't want to, but it's just that they can't.

[Eigen]

This is hugely field dependent, but I'd be quite leery of a department that wouldn't pay at least some of the costs of a visit for accepted students. 

 

There is no program at my school that doesn't do at least something towards travel costs, and most fund it completely. 

 

The fact that they don't would make me worry a bit about what their budget will be like for other common things down the road (conference travel, bringing in seminar speakers). 

[ritapita]

This is hugely field dependent, but I'd be quite leery of a department that wouldn't pay at least some of the costs of a visit for accepted students. 

 

There is no program at my school that doesn't do at least something towards travel costs, and most fund it completely. 

 

The fact that they don't would make me worry a bit about what their budget will be like for other common things down the road (conference travel, bringing in seminar speakers). 

 

This is exactly my concern.  If they only accept a handful of students but are either unable or unwilling to fund a visit of a few hundred dollars, it makes me extremely concerned about how funding and student support will be handled during my time there.  I also have a major problem with either side willing to commit to the other site unseen.  I will be dependent upon this department to support my research for several years and I will carry this experience through to my future beyond the PhD.  I feel uneasy about making a commitment to a program without being able to at least see the facilities or meet the faculty.  And if they are willing to commit to me without meeting me first, it makes me feel a bit like a quota.  

 

As MathCat mentioned above, yes it is a very minor expense in the long run, but I think the effort of the program in this regard speaks volumes.  And no, I am not really in a position to spend several hundred dollars on a ticket, plus hotel fees, plus food for a visit.  It might be a great place once I get there, and I might not regret shelling out money I I don't really have, to do a meet and greet before I decide, but it seems a bit one-sided to me.  I did indeed apply to the program for a reason. It seems to have a lot to offer. However, now that I am 'in' and logistics such as this are a bit questionable, I feel it is certainly worth potential reconsideration. It is a dealbreaker to me to commit to several years in a program, several years of my life and time, to have a program feel I need to make this massive decision site-unseen.

[kyjin]

Echoing advice of the others, it doesn't hurt to ask your POI or the graduate advisor if they have any funds to help. If you have clear amounts in mind (airfaire tix price, etc.) these can also help negotiations. When I applied for PhDs, I was in Canada finishing my MA, and one of my accepted institutions invited me down for their visit weekend, but said in their email that while they could cover domestic affair, food, and hotel, they couldn't cover international airfare . I ended up contacting the graduate advisor with tix prices that I had found from my location (~$700, which was actually some of the cheapest flights I found.) They ended up covering my flight, no problem. I now attend said institution.

 

The fact is some programs do not have much money for these visits, but just ask, and you never know what will happen! But I wouldn't say not providing money for a visit is indicative of future support; it all depends on how they allocate their money. Perhaps by not offering flights for their visiting prospective students, they are able to fund more research funds for their current students!

Edited February 11, 2015 by kyjin

[MathCat]

But I wouldn't say not providing money for a visit is indicative of future support; it all depends on how they allocate their money. Perhaps by not offering flights for their visiting prospective students, they are able to fund more research funds for their current students!

This. It may be that the program just doesn't have much money for anything, which is worrisome, but I wouldn't assume that's the case without more to go on. One of the best funding offers I've gotten (which is the best by far) comes from the program that will only cover ~1/2 of my visiting costs, and they also have good support for travel, etc. for current students. They just seem to prioritize funding enrolled students over prospective ones - which is not really a bad thing.

[BiochemMom]

I just called the dept graduate secretary and asked straight up, "I was actually calling to inquire about the visitation days for accepted students. Is that funded by (school) or self funded?" And she immediately told me the school pays up to (it was $350 for them) in order to visit.

[TakeruK]

I just called the dept graduate secretary and asked straight up, "I was actually calling to inquire about the visitation days for accepted students. Is that funded by (school) or self funded?" And she immediately told me the school pays up to (it was $350 for them) in order to visit.

 

I think this is the most effective/direct way to go about this. There's no need to dance around the bush, both parties know that finances may be tough for both the school and the student. This approach worked really well for me when I wanted to make alternate plans to have a more affordable visit. For example, one school only reimbursed up to $300 for flight (full reimbursement for all local expenses) but flying from Eastern Canada is easily twice that. By asking for the maximum number up front, I was able to combine the visit with another school and also negotiate for an extra $100 towards the flight if I stayed at a friend's place (also a grad student in the same program) instead of the hotel. Everyone agreed and it all worked out but that was really only possible because everyone communicated clearly to each other

 

While I'd second Eigen's concerns about the program not being able to pay for travel of other things (e.g. seminar speakers) if they did not cover any part of the visit, I definitely would not phrase this as "ensuring" or "making" the department pay! We're not entitled to it, but we do (and should) factor in their ability to pay (and flexibility**in how they pay) when making our own decisions. 

 

 

(** This is actually pretty important. Private schools seem to be a lot more flexible with how they spend their money, e.g. we generally expense meals on a per diem basis at my program, but in past public schools, I had to have itemized receipts for every expense! Understandable, but it means I'm often paying out of pocket for gratuities, and if the place does not split bills.)

[ritapita]

Thank you for all the 'positive' responses, and as an incoming grad, understanding my concerns.  There is a lot to consider when accepting a programs offer, and I know better than to just take things for face value, thus asking for advice from those that have been-there-done-that is super helpful.  

 

GradSec - helpful comments and advice are always happily received.  

[Eigen]

Ahahahahahahahaha! You do know you're not a special snowflake, right? 

 

Also, you may find this link useful:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=university+budgets&safe=off&tbm=nws

 

I normally agree with what you have to say, but in this case, I think you're a bit off base. 

 

Generally, along with travel for current graduate students and funds to bring in speakers, recruitment money (largely used to fly in prospective grad students) is one of the major line items in any decent graduate schools budget. 

 

And I stick by the idea that I would be very worried about the financial state of the department if they wouldn't pay some/part of your travel. Even our most financially strapped departments will piece together the money to fly in accepted students if they really want a chance at getting them in.

[TakeruK]

And I stick by the idea that I would be very worried about the financial state of the department if they wouldn't pay some/part of your travel. Even our most financially strapped departments will piece together the money to fly in accepted students if they really want a chance at getting them in.

 

Another way I might think about this is that in terms of budget priority to the department. Graduate students are not generally very high on the priority list (compared to other things), but you're much higher as a prospective student than when you have enrolled. So if they are not covering anything now, what will it be like when you are even less of a priority? 

 

That said, I wouldn't reject a school solely because they did not offer to pay for my visit. There were two schools that only offered $300 total towards the trip (not $300 for just the flight, $300 total; this was a concern for me since it's $120 to get from my non-hub town to a hub airport). One school was in a very high cost of living area where even a $30k/year stipend meant students had to take out loans and another school's POI told me they had no money for research so I would have to TA extra (and the financial package was below the poverty line). So it's in combination with these other factors that made the decision for me. That is, very little or no funding for travel would be a flag that would cause me to be concerned and look deeper for other potential problems. But if everything else does check out, and the rest of the program is a great fit, then I wouldn't completely rule the program out yet. 

[Eigen]

No, I definitely wouldn't use it as a primary judgement, but it would be a red flag of funding issues for me. 

[Eigen]

I don't personally think much of departments that accept students who they don't really want to court, I think it leads towards bitter graduate students with little departmental support who are little more than warm bodies. It ends up leading to the department (and school) spending more money than an adjunct, or even non TT teaching faculty would cost, for graduate students who will have a very low chance at finding a good job post-graduation. But that's not really an argument for this thread.

 

It does, however, lead back to my initial comment, that I would see it as a red flag. Either the department doesn't have the resources, in which case it's in pretty bad financial hardship (red flag) or it doesn't consider you as worth spending the money on, which will probably continue to be the case post acceptance (red flag). 

[tristansmells]

So I'm British, and there is no way on God's green earth that a British university would *pay* to help someone come visit them. Are you seriously telling me that if I ask WashU for some money to come visit... they might give it to me?

 

There are no words to describe how blown my mind is.

[fancypants09]

On 2/15/2015 at 4:47 AM, tristansmells said:

So I'm British, and there is no way on God's green earth that a British university would *pay* to help someone come visit them. Are you seriously telling me that if I ask WashU for some money to come visit... they might give it to me?

 

There are no words to describe how blown my mind is.

 

Most likely yes but you should ask to be sure. I'm flying out to LA from Korea and the department is providing financial support that covers part of the cost for the trip. 

[ritapita]

On 2/15/2015 at 4:47 AM, tristansmells said:

So I'm British, and there is no way on God's green earth that a British university would *pay* to help someone come visit them. Are you seriously telling me that if I ask WashU for some money to come visit... they might give it to me?

 

There are no words to describe how blown my mind is.

Definitely ask!  After posing my original question, I have seen a lot of stuff on here about people getting partial funding for international airfare.  Good luck!

[tristansmells]

I was too chicken to ask for money so instead I just asked if I could come visit. Hopefully they'll get the hint.

[rising_star]

This is exactly my concern.  If they only accept a handful of students but are either unable or unwilling to fund a visit of a few hundred dollars, it makes me extremely concerned about how funding and student support will be handled during my time there.  I also have a major problem with either side willing to commit to the other site unseen.  I will be dependent upon this department to support my research for several years and I will carry this experience through to my future beyond the PhD.  I feel uneasy about making a commitment to a program without being able to at least see the facilities or meet the faculty.  And if they are willing to commit to me without meeting me first, it makes me feel a bit like a quota.  

 

I'm going to disagree some with Eigen and TakeruK here. My PhD program doesn't fund visits. Yes, as Eigen points out, it is a line item in the budget. But, the department uses that money in other ways (primarily because it's a travel budget so they use it to fund graduate student travel). I'm in the social sciences where many students aren't on research grants that would pay for travel to a conference to present. As a result, those reallocated funds are many people's main source of travel funds (you can also apply for funds from a couple of places on campus depending on the focus of your presentation and of the conference). So, in that case, there's actually more support for admitted students than for prospective students. YMMV obviously but it is not unilaterally true that not paying for you to visit means the program doesn't want you or want to support you.

 

By contrast, I visited a program that gave me an all expenses paid trip after accepting me. Flight, private room at a B&B, provided every meal, paid students to take me out on the town, drove me around, etc. That program offered me the lowest stipend, by far of any program I applied to. So, they had money to woo me, but I would've gotten less money each month had I gone there. There is no universal rule that willingness to pay for a visit = well supported students throughout the program.

[TakeruK]

rising_star is right and it's definitely important to compare against the norms in your field before making judgements based on these actions!

 

I will qualify my earlier statements that if you are in a field where research is generally funded by grants (i.e. it would be extremely worrisome if a graduate student had to fund their own work related travel), then it would be a red flag if the school did not offer some money towards visits!

[Eigen]

Definitely some degree of field specificity, but I can also say at my university the funds aren't field specific, as they come from the Provost's office, and are pretty even between disciplines.

 

I know a number of schools also have the funding come down from the Graduate School, if there is one, making it less field specific.

 

As mentioned though, there's a great deal of discrection in use of the funds, and the department may not view it as the best use.

 

Sadly, the programs at our school that choose to use less of it for prospective graduate students don't divert it to current graduate student travel, but rather give it to faculty members to "recruit" at conferences.

 

The bottom line for most of these questions comes down to nothing in graduate admissions being universal- each school is a bit different in policies, organization, and structure. As long as you ask politely and in a non-pressuring, non-entitled way, you can find out what the school you're interested in does as far as policies, both for visits and availability of funding for current students.