To MTS or not to MTS that is the question.

[truthseeker]

I need some help/advice.  I am 34 years of age, married, two small children and currently I Pastor a small church.  I graduated from undergrad with a Biblical Studies degree, and then went back and got my Masters in Counseling (completed in 2007).  I always felt like I'd go back (some day) and get a second (Theological) Masters to make myself eligible for a Ph.D.  I would really like to teach at some point, not to mention that I believe that I really would really like the academic rigor of the Ph.D pursuit.

 

My dream would be to teach during the week and preach on the weekends.

 

Here is my problem.  The demands of being a small church Pastor are immense.  I cannot imagine doing another master's degree with my current schedule/responsiblities, let alone a Ph.D.  There is a decent MTS program in my current city, but it would probably take me 4-5 years to complete, and I would not be able to produce my best work.  I don't believe in that situation I would get accepted into any of the Ph.D programs I would want to.  

 

So, just to see what would happen, I applied to a top tier MTS program (out of state) this winter, and I got in.  Today I found out that they are going to fund me 60% (now this is feeling real).

 

I know that no one can answer this question for me, but would I be crazy to quit my job at the church to pursue this?  My wife has a professional job where she could work almost anywhere.  We have family in the area we'd be moving to, so that would be nice bonus as we have lived apart from family for the last 10 years.

 

I am a bit worried about leaving the church (known quantity) and moving into being a full time student again at 34 (unknown quantity).

 

Any advice, experience or prayers would be much appreciated.

 

 

[Body Politics]

I don't think there's any way for me (or anyone here, really) to give you a definitive answer, or even a good one. Nonetheless: If you are comfortable with the language of "calling" (and I suspect you are), do you feel "called" to pursue the vocation of an academic? If so, go for it.

 

One thing I will note, as a current PhD student and friend of many Christian professors: The balance you would like to strike as a professor and preacher will be significantly difficult to attain. The two vocations you feel drawn to, teaching and ministering, are both full-time gigs. Pastoral ministry (as you know) is much more than just preaching on weekends, just as teaching is much more than showing up to lecture on Tuesdays and Thursdays. What I'm trying to say is: be careful. That is a huge load you are looking to take on.

[truthseeker]

I don't think there's any way for me (or anyone here, really) to give you a definitive answer, or even a good one. Nonetheless: If you are comfortable with the language of "calling" (and I suspect you are), do you feel "called" to pursue the vocation of an academic? If so, go for it.

 

One thing I will note, as a current PhD student and friend of many Christian professors: The balance you would like to strike as a professor and preacher will be significantly difficult to attain. The two vocations you feel drawn to, teaching and ministering, are both full-time gigs. Pastoral ministry (as you know) is much more than just preaching on weekends, just as teaching is much more than showing up to lecture on Tuesdays and Thursdays. What I'm trying to say is: be careful. That is a huge load you are looking to take on.

 

Thanks Body Politics for your response.  I do understand that (depending on the context) attempting to be a full time Pastor and Professor could be too much (although I had a number of undergrad profs who pulled it off.)  That wouldn't be my plan, when I mentioned "preach on the weekends", I was referring to a ministerial position where a church needed the pulpit filled, and not necessarily being the sole Pastor on staff.  Many churches are now dividing up the responsibilities of the Pastorate, so my "dream" would be in the context where I was limited to a "Teaching Pastor" role.

 

I'm not looking for a definitive answer on this, just if any of you have experience with someone leaving a ministry position to pursue a Graduate Degree.  I'm struggling with this decision as I feel like I'm taking a step or two backwards to take a step forward in a couple of years time.  I want to be a good steward of what God has given me and my family.

 

 You asked about calling, and I do feel called.  My sense of it is that I am called to use my gifts to further the Kingdom, and right now I am trying to discern how best to do that.

[JimmyLLang]

I need some help/advice.  I am 34 years of age, married, two small children and currently I Pastor a small church.  I graduated from undergrad with a Biblical Studies degree, and then went back and got my Masters in Counseling (completed in 2007).  I always felt like I'd go back (some day) and get a second (Theological) Masters to make myself eligible for a Ph.D.  I would really like to teach at some point, not to mention that I believe that I really would really like the academic rigor of the Ph.D pursuit.

 

My dream would be to teach during the week and preach on the weekends.

 

Here is my problem.  The demands of being a small church Pastor are immense.  I cannot imagine doing another master's degree with my current schedule/responsiblities, let alone a Ph.D.  There is a decent MTS program in my current city, but it would probably take me 4-5 years to complete, and I would not be able to produce my best work.  I don't believe in that situation I would get accepted into any of the Ph.D programs I would want to.  

 

So, just to see what would happen, I applied to a top tier MTS program (out of state) this winter, and I got in.  Today I found out that they are going to fund me 60% (now this is feeling real).

 

I know that no one can answer this question for me, but would I be crazy to quit my job at the church to pursue this?  My wife has a professional job where she could work almost anywhere.  We have family in the area we'd be moving to, so that would be nice bonus as we have lived apart from family for the last 10 years.

 

I am a bit worried about leaving the church (known quantity) and moving into being a full time student again at 34 (unknown quantity).

 

Any advice, experience or prayers would be much appreciated.

 

If that is really what you feel like you want to do then obviously go for it. My situation is somewhat similar to yours so I can resonate somewhat with what you are feeling. I would throw out a word of caution though. I assume by Phd you want to get into a top tier funded program. Correct? If so then I assume you do realize that the majority of applicants get rejected. Correct? You can go get an MTS but it will not automatically get you into School X for a PhD. Just want to make sure that you think about these things carefully before jumping in. 

[newenglandshawn]

My gut reaction is to go for the MTS! If you only have a Masters in counseling, I would highly doubt that would be enough to get into an academic PhD program. And if your wife has a full-time job that can go anywhere, and it would be close by . . . all this seems like a no-brainer to me (even if you don't like the idea of going through another Masters)!

[truthseeker]

If that is really what you feel like you want to do then obviously go for it. My situation is somewhat similar to yours so I can resonate somewhat with what you are feeling. I would throw out a word of caution though. I assume by Phd you want to get into a top tier funded program. Correct? If so then I assume you do realize that the majority of applicants get rejected. Correct? You can go get an MTS but it will not automatically get you into School X for a PhD. Just want to make sure that you think about these things carefully before jumping in. 

 

Thanks for your insight Jimmy, I do realize that road of academia is paved with disappointment and tears so I am not going into this blind.  I have applied to a top MTS program, and I got in with decent funding, so I hope that if I do my best work I can graduate tops and pursue a Ph.D.  However, I also feel that even if I don't end up pursuing a Ph.D there is sufficient enough reason for me to complete an MTS.  I won't bore you with those reasons, but my point is that I'm not going into this thinking "Top Ph.D. Program or Bust"

[Rabbit Run]

Thanks for your insight Jimmy, I do realize that road of academia is paved with disappointment and tears so I am not going into this blind.  I have applied to a top MTS program, and I got in with decent funding, so I hope that if I do my best work I can graduate tops and pursue a Ph.D.  However, I also feel that even if I don't end up pursuing a Ph.D there is sufficient enough reason for me to complete an MTS.  I won't bore you with those reasons, but my point is that I'm not going into this thinking "Top Ph.D. Program or Bust"

[HNV721]

I need some help/advice.  I am 34 years of age, married, two small children and currently I Pastor a small church.  I graduated from undergrad with a Biblical Studies degree, and then went back and got my Masters in Counseling (completed in 2007).  I always felt like I'd go back (some day) and get a second (Theological) Masters to make myself eligible for a Ph.D.  I would really like to teach at some point, not to mention that I believe that I really would really like the academic rigor of the Ph.D pursuit.

 

My dream would be to teach during the week and preach on the weekends.

 

Here is my problem.  The demands of being a small church Pastor are immense.  I cannot imagine doing another master's degree with my current schedule/responsiblities, let alone a Ph.D.  There is a decent MTS program in my current city, but it would probably take me 4-5 years to complete, and I would not be able to produce my best work.  I don't believe in that situation I would get accepted into any of the Ph.D programs I would want to.  

 

So, just to see what would happen, I applied to a top tier MTS program (out of state) this winter, and I got in.  Today I found out that they are going to fund me 60% (now this is feeling real).

 

I know that no one can answer this question for me, but would I be crazy to quit my job at the church to pursue this?  My wife has a professional job where she could work almost anywhere.  We have family in the area we'd be moving to, so that would be nice bonus as we have lived apart from family for the last 10 years.

 

I am a bit worried about leaving the church (known quantity) and moving into being a full time student again at 34 (unknown quantity).

 

Any advice, experience or prayers would be much appreciated.

 

If you do not mind me asking, where did you apply?

[truthseeker]

.

Edited February 22, 2015 by truthseeker

[Duns Eith]

Truth seeker:

I just graduated from a top evangelical/ non-denom reformed school with a master of arts in religion (theological studies emphasis).

First I wanna say, I think that is the equivalent of a MTS, and I think it is manageable for taking classes and being in a pastorate (many of my classmates did this, some even went for an MDiv instead of the MTS). I found it a HUGE help in thinking through not only theology, but how to navigate texts faithfully to the authors in a way that can be accessible to congregations. ...I say that even though I didn't have any preaching classes (since I was not an MDiv)!

That said, if you have a masters in counseling maybe you want to consider a Doctor of Ministry (a DMin) for doctoral work.

PhD is a whole different matter.

What kind of study do you want to do, that you would be competent to teach as a Prof?

The prospect of teaching systematics or biblical studies are kind of stacked against you. I have friends going into OT and they, since they are considered conservative evangelical, will have an up hill battle landing a job at a decent Seminary or Christian college.

But before I say anything more: does any other pastor (at your church or nearby, or even another pastor you keep in touch and maybe keeps you accountable) not only see your desire, but also your gifting and personality fitting with your goals?

You sound either like you don't want to shepherd anymore (teaching=/=shepherding), but you do want to edify others with speaking opportunities that communicate biblical matters; OR you are burnt out at your current position (like, the congregation is getting stagnant or they are not following your lead, or they are moving much more slowly than you want), and taking a break to fill up/recharge is over due.

[Duns Eith]

PS

Why are you worried about the church?