Nothing but bad news... so now what?

[ellebe]

That seems like a dangerous road to go down, Ellebe. Can anyone back me up that a second MA would be a waste of time and money?

 

From the sounds of it, your concrete areas for improvement come mostly from certified, reported things such as language credits and GRE. I had a similar flaw in that my Latin proficiency is not illustrated on my transcript, and my writing sample used mostly Norman French and Middle English. It is unfortunate, but such is the way of things. I imagine that the 4.0 writing score is the big killer. If you do plan to retest, remember to write in algorithms, rather than they way you are accustomed to.

 

Yeah, it seems counterproductive to put life on hold for another stepping stone to the end goal, right?

 

Did you do a GRE prep course? It was my first standardised testing experience, so I did Kaplan and tried to follow their advice to the letter. Spent ages studying the "best" examples of essays. My work is mostly for big brands, so enforcing "template" style writing/tone of voice - basically, replicating a formula - is literally my job. Figured I had that shit down. 

 

Super impressed by your languages, by the way. 

 

I once asked the DGS at Notre Dame how they valued the writing component of the GRE, as I had gotten a 4.5 and wanted to know if I should retake. His response? "That's the bit that's out of six, right?" 

 

Told me everything I needed to know.

 

So that's a no?

[a.rev]

I was told not to stress the writing part of the GRE. Very few people do well under pressure and if they want to know how well you can write they'll just look at your writing sample. 

[ForlornHope]

Super impressed by your languages, by the way. 

 

Thanks. Shame no admissions committees felt the same way. 

Though, I will add that some medieval languages just require a good dictionary.

 

 In my instance, I was mostly advised that stellar GRE scores could help balance out mediocre GPA. I had a rather unfortunate freshman year and ended up switching majors. I scored well on each section, but forcing myself to write in such a strange way was quite painful. In the end, it didn't really matter, so I can't say too much more on it.

Edited March 4, 2015 by ForlornHope

[sankofa]

I've applied to a program to obtain my teachers certificate. Thankfully the deadline had been extended. Must have been fate.

I am seriously re evaluating if obtaining a phd in history is what I want. This is my second time applying and I have to remin myself I'm still quite young. All in all, I am glad I wasn't offered admission. I need to do some soul searching because I think I got too caught up in wanting an acceptance. I know people in history phd programs who are unhappy or who have the exact same job outlooks I have with a Masters.

Not to be a Debbie downer to the rest of you guys. But I have realized quite a few things during this process. I will be going on with my life and figuring out what I want and don't.

Best of luck to you all.

Edited March 4, 2015 by sankofa

[Sigaba]

I'm still in my undergrad but have a job as a technical writer for government. If I were not accepted into a program next fall, I was considering doing a graduate certificate in professional writing. I know technical writing does not sound very exciting, but it is a start and can open the door to many other writing positions. 

 

Sorry to hear about the outcome of your applications this year.

 

K--

 

Consider doing more in technical writing for your "outside field," maybe even earning that certificate. The skill set will you find work while you're completing your degree and may open up other opportunities directly related to history (e.g. editing professors' manuscripts).

[a.rev]

Is editing a professor's manuscript something worth noting on an application? I had a professor ask me to do it last year but I just did it as a favor, mainly to pick out things that seemed inconsistent and strange wording.

[Sigaba]

Is editing a professor's manuscript something worth noting on an application? I had a professor ask me to do it last year but I just did it as a favor, mainly to pick out things that seemed inconsistent and strange wording.

MOO, it would serve you better if the professor mentioned it in a LoR. (Provided that you offered substantive comments and suggestions as opposed to scrubbing the copy for grammatical errors alone.)

ETA: I mentioned this benefit as something in the good deed/own reward category. You can learn a lot if the professor asks you for comments.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Sigaba

[a.rev]

MOO, it would serve you better if the professor mentioned it in a LoR. (Provided that you offered substantive comments and suggestions as opposed to scrubbing the copy for grammatical errors alone.)

ETA: I mentioned this benefit as something in the good deed/own reward category. You can learn a lot if the professor asks you for comments.

 

Ok good, that's basically how I treated it (learning experience, building brownie points, etc.) When I saw your comment I started questioning myself because I thought it would be really strange and...boastful (?) to mention it in a statement, but obviously I'm not an expert at applying to PhD programs so thought it might be something widely acceptable that I somehow I missed. I know that I receive a shout-out in his acknowledgements but can't say whether or not he mentioned it in his letter. I did enjoy the process through, despite having very different writing styles.

Edited March 5, 2015 by a.rev

[Kleio_77]

K--

 

Consider doing more in technical writing for your "outside field," maybe even earning that certificate. The skill set will you find work while you're completing your degree and may open up other opportunities directly related to history (e.g. editing professors' manuscripts).

 

I am attending school next fall, that was just my own personal back up plan!

Edited March 5, 2015 by Kleio_77

[Sigaba]

I am attending school next fall, that was just my own personal back up plan!

K, I understood that it was your plan B. I am suggesting that your plan A might benefit if technical writing is a part of it.

[Kleio_77]

K, I understood that it was your plan B. I am suggesting that your plan A might benefit if technical writing is a part of it.

 

Thanks, I don't have enough time to finish a professional certificate, otherwise I would definitely pursue it! I believe my current employment helped my applications, as I began the position as an intern and was then hired on full-time. I also work from home quite frequently, and I used one of my undergrad professors as a reference for my internship, which he mentioned my professional success in his letter of recommendation for me. 

Anyways, this was a suggestion for the OP. Writing skills can pay well, you just have to branch out. I research and write about a mapping project, and I know very little about maps. 

[ellebe]

I've applied to a program to obtain my teachers certificate. Thankfully the deadline had been extended. Must have been fate.

I am seriously re evaluating if obtaining a phd in history is what I want. This is my second time applying and I have to remin myself I'm still quite young. All in all, I am glad I wasn't offered admission. I need to do some soul searching because I think I got too caught up in wanting an acceptance. I know people in history phd programs who are unhappy or who have the exact same job outlooks I have with a Masters.

Not to be a Debbie downer to the rest of you guys. But I have realized quite a few things during this process. I will be goinI g on with my life and figuring out what I want and don't.

Best of luck to you all.

 

Congrats on the new plan, it sounds like a really positive alternative. 

 

There's been so much chatter lately across my social networks about where academic career paths are headed (because of the Toronto TA strike). It's not surprising; grad students and adjuncts and even my letter writers have initiated really frank conversations about how damn hard this life will be. 

 

There will always be other options for those who seek them, though. It's just a matter of figuring out which aspects of academia you're most passionate about and finding - or making - an opportunity that suits. Most of us are probably gunning for TT positions, but it helps (I think) to go into this with a long list of backup possibilities. Then again, I did articulate this on one application that ended up rejecting me. So maybe I'm way off

[sankofa]

Congrats on the new plan, it sounds like a really positive alternative.

There's been so much chatter lately across my social networks about where academic career paths are headed (because of the Toronto TA strike). It's not surprising; grad students and adjuncts and even my letter writers have initiated really frank conversations about how damn hard this life will be.

There will always be other options for those who seek them, though. It's just a matter of figuring out which aspects of academia you're most passionate about and finding - or making - an opportunity that suits. Most of us are probably gunning for TT positions, but it helps (I think) to go into this with a long list of backup possibilities. Then again, I did articulate this on one application that ended up rejecting me. So maybe I'm way off

Elle,

I totally agree. I think we all will get where we want eventually. As for me, I had to remember if teaching is really what I want to do it shouldn't matter if I do not have the prestige of a phd right now. I should be focusing on where change can happen-- with our youth.

Good luck to you and everyone reading this forum (in secret or not) and feeling down. It's not the end of the world--just reevaluate.

[historygradhopeful]

Great advice and ideas here, as usual.  I hope that everyone else has found interesting and positive things to do in light of rejection.

 

As for me, I've decided to reject the 200k of debt that would come from getting another Master's at Columbia and do a career switch.  I've been good with computers for a while and I'm going to enroll in an accelerated computer programming sequence at a local University and then apply for Master's programs in computer science the year afterward.  I'll apply to many more schools (at least 15+) so that I won't have this situation happen again.  The job security, salary, and lifestyle of computer programming is all attractive, but I'll be damned if I won't miss teaching History.

[Gambaosaka1]

Oh man, guys. This. All of this stuff is twisting me up like crazy. 

 

I want to teach and write history more than anything else in the world. I get paid to write about eating, drinking, hotels and travel. It's fun, but it's not satisfying.

 

I bloody love the eureka moments when you're reading a text and an idea comes to you and you fill up a page with tangents before finally articulating that one really satisfying thing you're going to contribute to a discussion. And teaching. Those moments when a student really gets it and you want to jump up and down and fight back a few lame ass tears pricking the back of your eyes.

 

After a long, rocky job hunt, I can tell you this: if you're gonna fight for a job, make it the job of your dreams. I'm starting my new role next week and I feel heavy and tired and awful all the time. Without an acceptance to focus on, this next step just sucks. (I tend to get a little too intense about this stuff. I am aware.)

 

I fully intend to apply again next year because... well, what else can you do? The problem is, I don't know how to fix the things that might be holding me back. 

 

1) Undergrad GPA: started out mediocre, finished strong, balanced out to a meh GPA. (Friggin U of T and their science credit requirement...)

 

2) MA grades: really great essay marks all year, but those don't count towards your final. It's all exams and dissertation. I suck at exams and screwed up my dissertation. A very medium finish. 

 

3) My background's pretty all over the place. I'm kind of switching fields, too. My project carries on a post-war memory/identity theme I've based most of my academic choices around, but the US-specific context is new. Considering how competitive American history spots are... I'm probably not ideal.

 

4) The only language component of my project would potentially be French. I'm Canadian, I lived in Switzerland, I've had French clients. There are no French courses on my transcript because I already had a pretty solid working knowledge. 

 

5) GRE scores. I got a 168 verbal, the exact same as my first diagnostic score. A 152 quant, a hell of an improvement but maybe not enough. And the kicker: 4.0 on the essay component. Apparently my exam writing skills haven't improved. Not what a committee wants to see, right?

 

I don't know what to do at this point to make myself a more attractive candidate. I can't turn back time and fix the bumps in my past, only learn from them and come out stronger. And there are good points, too: teaching experience, an undergrad publication.

 

Maybe I should use a different writing sample, one that did well the first time around? I mean, should I be considering a second MA? And then how much further down the line does the PhD actually happen?

 

I'm stressing guys, sorry. It's just nice to put this out there to an audience that may actually have some answers. 

 

Hey ellebelle:

 

Really sorry it didn't work out for you this semester. I don't have any experience being anywhere near admissions committees so can only speak from my own experience and from what Professors told me. 

 

I think I was in a similar position to you with regards to my grades: I was decent in both undergrad and Masters but did not excel. My Japanese isn't up to scratch like others, however, I think I have a really unique/understudied topic which is timely and have an 'interesting' background (where I come from originally, what other native language I speak, and when/where I happened to intern that happens to connect with my research somehow) and worked for a news organization post-MA.

 

My MA professor said I was a "non-traditional" candidate and so it is even harder to judge how my cycle would go and so I should a) have a wide-range of places to apply b)focus on selling my USP (feels yucky to write it) and my "story" in my SOP and c) really work hard on making contact with places I have a good research fit. My area is so small it is bound to help if I can find the research connection.

 

In addition to his advice I felt my writing sample wasn't strong enough so wrote a literature review of my research area from scratch and I think that might be something you might want to do? Aside from having a great writing sample if it connects with your SOP it might help alleviate any issues about your interests being all over the place maybe?

 

I haven't done incredibly well like Ashiepoo for example but considering my limitations at the moment I am more than happy (especially with UNC which is the dream fit for me).

 

Don't dwell on the past grades, I think nailing an interesting research topic +  strong writing sample is what will make the difference. If they need proof that you have ability as an aspiring historian that they can't see from your grades then that is what they might look at.

 

Having French is great and if you can add some Spanish (for example) that would really add to your CV. Also selling your years away from academia might be something you could look at it. Do you think that came off OK in your SOP?

 

Either way, I am certainly NO expert...just my uneducated 2 cents

Edited March 14, 2015 by Gambaosaka1

[ellebe]

Hey ellebelle:

 

Really sorry it didn't work out for you this semester. I don't have any experience being anywhere near admissions committees so can only speak from my own experience and from what Professors told me. 

 

I think I was in a similar position to you with regards to my grades: I was decent in both undergrad and Masters but did not excel. My Japanese isn't up to scratch like others, however, I think I have a really unique/understudied topic which is timely and have an 'interesting' background (where I come from originally, what other native language I speak, and when/where I happened to intern that happens to connect with my research somehow) and worked for a news organization post-MA.

 

My MA professor said I was a "non-traditional" candidate and so it is even harder to judge how my cycle would go and so I should a) have a wide-range of places to apply b)focus on selling my USP (feels yucky to write it) and my "story" in my SOP and c) really work hard on making contact with places I have a good research fit. My area is so small it is bound to help if I can find the research connection.

 

In addition to his advice I felt my writing sample wasn't strong enough so wrote a literature review of my research area from scratch and I think that might be something you might want to do? Aside from having a great writing sample if it connects with your SOP it might help alleviate any issues about your interests being all over the place maybe?

 

I haven't done incredibly well like Ashiepoo for example but considering my limitations at the moment I am more than happy (especially with UNC which is the dream fit for me).

 

Don't dwell on the past grades, I think nailing an interesting research topic +  strong writing sample is what will make the difference. If they need proof that you have ability as an aspiring historian that they can't see from your grades then that is what they might look at.

 

Having French is great and if you can add some Spanish (for example) that would really add to your CV. Also selling your years away from academia might be something you could look at it. Do you think that came off OK in your SOP?

 

Either way, I am certainly NO expert...just my uneducated 2 cents

 

Thanks Gambaosaka

 

I felt pretty great about my SOP, but on reflection I wonder if it may have been a bit too project-centric. It's good to be excited about your research topic, but I think I may have been too fixated on the little details. Next time around I'll try to do a better job with the broader context. (Another issue on that front is that there are several broader contexts, which vary by school - I guess I'm still pulled in too many directions, so maybe I need to narrow it down instead of hoping admits will decide for me.)

 

I also dug out an essay from my MA course which connects closely with the overarching theme that ties together past and future research. It's going to need some supplementary primary material though. It kind of kills me not to use my MA thesis considering the hours spent in archives (and traveling to/from), but this paper definitely does a better job selling my "story." (You're right, it sucks, but my new job is editing marketing content. It's the grind.)

 

This feels really cheeky to ask, but would anyone be willing to cast an eye over my 2014/15 SOP? I had a friend (finishing her PhD at Cambridge) look over it and she gave it her blessing, but my MA advisor is absolutely killing it with speaking engagements etc. lately, so I didn't bug her with it. I'd like to fix it up before bothering her for feedback!

 

Thanks again to everyone for all the support throughout the waiting game. I wish I'd joined earlier in the cycle - it's hard not to feel like a bit of an impostor now we're all looking ahead 

[mvlchicago]

Thanks Gambaosaka

 

I felt pretty great about my SOP, but on reflection I wonder if it may have been a bit too project-centric. It's good to be excited about your research topic, but I think I may have been too fixated on the little details. Next time around I'll try to do a better job with the broader context. (Another issue on that front is that there are several broader contexts, which vary by school - I guess I'm still pulled in too many directions, so maybe I need to narrow it down instead of hoping admits will decide for me.)

 

I also dug out an essay from my MA course which connects closely with the overarching theme that ties together past and future research. It's going to need some supplementary primary material though. It kind of kills me not to use my MA thesis considering the hours spent in archives (and traveling to/from), but this paper definitely does a better job selling my "story." (You're right, it sucks, but my new job is editing marketing content. It's the grind.)

 

This feels really cheeky to ask, but would anyone be willing to cast an eye over my 2014/15 SOP? I had a friend (finishing her PhD at Cambridge) look over it and she gave it her blessing, but my MA advisor is absolutely killing it with speaking engagements etc. lately, so I didn't bug her with it. I'd like to fix it up before bothering her for feedback!

 

Thanks again to everyone for all the support throughout the waiting game. I wish I'd joined earlier in the cycle - it's hard not to feel like a bit of an impostor now we're all looking ahead 

I have no idea what your field is, but I'm always willing to read through stuff you're willing to send! My expertise is limited to a couple of admissions over two cycles, but yknow, the more people who read something, the better the weighted average of feedback, right?

More generally, I forget where this was posted, but someone mentioned on another thread the value of really considering what you want out of the history degree: is it the opportunity to publish? Is it the chance to revolutionize critical theory through genealogy? Is it just to teach undergraduates the ropes when it comes to worthwhile study? These are the sort of questions that ought to be a part of casting your net of Ph.D applications in the future, since if all you want to do is teach, then I doubt you need admission to Harvard if you're willing to teach at respectable private high schools, for example. If you want to publish generally, again your Ph.D just sort of needs to exist. The TT position straight out the gate is really, I think, the only goal where prestige needs to be an element of your calculations. I'm at as much a loss to explain the current admission trends as anyone else caught in the pool, but if other industries are any hint, we're all going to learn how to adapt to the rapidly changing modes of education and getting things done.

[ashiepoo72]

ellebe, PM me if you want me to look over your SOP and writing sample, we can exchange emails. I'm on spring break so I have plenty of time and would be happy to help

[ellebe]

Thanks MVLChicago and Ashiepoo! (I ran out of upvotes just in time for your post, ARGH!) I would love any feedback you have the time to share

 

MVL, that's really great advice to echo, because it's bound to help future applicants as well. All of my LOR writers also asked those questions, did anyone else have that experience? 

[Gambaosaka1]

Thanks Gambaosaka

 

I felt pretty great about my SOP, but on reflection I wonder if it may have been a bit too project-centric. It's good to be excited about your research topic, but I think I may have been too fixated on the little details. Next time around I'll try to do a better job with the broader context. (Another issue on that front is that there are several broader contexts, which vary by school - I guess I'm still pulled in too many directions, so maybe I need to narrow it down instead of hoping admits will decide for me.)

 

I also dug out an essay from my MA course which connects closely with the overarching theme that ties together past and future research. It's going to need some supplementary primary material though. It kind of kills me not to use my MA thesis considering the hours spent in archives (and traveling to/from), but this paper definitely does a better job selling my "story." (You're right, it sucks, but my new job is editing marketing content. It's the grind.)

 

This feels really cheeky to ask, but would anyone be willing to cast an eye over my 2014/15 SOP? I had a friend (finishing her PhD at Cambridge) look over it and she gave it her blessing, but my MA advisor is absolutely killing it with speaking engagements etc. lately, so I didn't bug her with it. I'd like to fix it up before bothering her for feedback!

 

Thanks again to everyone for all the support throughout the waiting game. I wish I'd joined earlier in the cycle - it's hard not to feel like a bit of an impostor now we're all looking ahead 

 

Hey, of course! Sorry I've been AWOL for a couple of weeks (language exams + had to move + cherry blossom viewings).

 

PM me and we can exchange emails maybe? Would love to read it