Lab mate continually steals ideas?

[harrisonfjord]

Have you ever had a colleague who tried to take your ideas and pass them off as their own? How did you handle it?

 

One of my lab colleagues completely stole one of my ideas and now he is receiving credit for it. I realize now I made a huge mistake because I never sent him emails indiciating that this was my idea in the first place. How do you deal with shady people like this? I sort of want to confront him about it but he's also the "lab manager" and I don't want to make the rest of my time in the lab miserable. This is sadly not the first time it has happened.

Edited March 25, 2015 by harrisonfjord

[Eigen]

Have you talked to your PI about it?

 

Sadly, there's probably nothing you can do now, especially if you have no data/haven't pursued the idea and they have, but it's a good lesson for the future.

 

Science can attract a lot of sadly competitive people- keeping your ideas dated in a notebook or an electronic notebook system, or email your ideas to colleagues/CC your PI.

[fuzzylogician]

I don't know what your situation is like. Sometimes you have a conversation with someone - they say something, you say something, then they pick up on the thing you said and develop it into a project of their own, or incorporate it into their already ongoing project. In that case, if it were me, I don't expect much of them, maybe an acknowledgement that I suggested they look at X, but it's really their thing and I don't now forever expect to be a co-author on their work or anything. If that's the kind of situation you are in, the best I can say is don't get into that kind of exchange of ideas with this guy; but also, that's really how advances are made in science so that's too bad.

 

If we're talking about a more serious situation where you are working on a project and have some results which you discuss with this guy, and then he takes over and pretends he did all the work, then there should be some kind of proof that you did the work. In that situation I'd ask to speak to the PI confidentially and try and approach it as gently as possible given the circumstances, but try and get the situation clarified so he can't just go on and claim my work. Or, if it's not worth the trouble, I'd let it go but keep better records of my work that I could use to prove who did what if anything like this ever happened again, and stay the hell away from this person as much as possible.

[TakeruK]

I'm sorry that you are experiencing this I think venting can be a healthy way to release built up frustration/emotions/worries but since you also ask for advice, thinking about the following might help too (even though some of it might not be what you want to hear, sorry). Since not very many details are provided, some of them might not apply to your specific case!

 

1. I don't think science works well if we act as if scientists can "own" ideas the same way that artists "own" copyright to their works. I don't think it is reasonable for the person that comes up with an idea to have exclusive privilege to follow through on it. On the other hand, science also does not work if people are constantly worried about ideas being stolen that they never brainstorm or bounce ideas of each other.

 

In an ideal scenario, when two colleagues bounce ideas off each other, if Person A comes up with an idea and then Person B decides to execute it later, Person B should ask Person A if they want to collaborate. If A declines (because of other commitments etc.) then the two of them should work out some kind of compromise (perhaps they will work on it in X months etc.) Ultimately though, if A does not want to work on it at all, Person B should inform A that they will follow through with that idea and I think that's fine and not "stealing". However, it sounds like in your case, Person B went ahead with your idea without talking to you first? That's pretty shady  

 

Unfortunately, the best advice in this case is to stop collaborating with Person B. In my field, from talking to other people, I know a few people like "Person B" that will either steal your idea outright, or bully you into being a coauthor or risk not getting any credit at all. I know to avoid these Persons B. If you tell other people about your Person B, be careful about how you present the facts so that it does not come back to hurt you though.

 

2. Are we talking about Person B stealing your ideas/concepts and running their own experiments/analyses based on your ideas? Or, are they just parroting your ideas to the PI or the rest of the lab group and getting credit for coming up with the ideas. If it's the former, then see #1 above. If it's the latter, then this is really despicable. Unfortunately, I can't really see a way for you to regain credit for your own ideas without damaging your relationship with Person B and hurting you more in the long run. Maybe you can talk to another lab member or another professor you trust for some advice/thoughts. If you decide that pursuing this further is not worth it, then perhaps the best plan is to just not tell this person your ideas anymore.

 

3. Overall, it sounds like the environment is not very healthy and feels very competitive that someone would do something like this. I'm not trying to excuse Person B's behaviour, though, to be clear. But if you want to do something but do not want to confront Person B / make life harder for yourself, then perhaps you can do something to address the competitive environment? I feel that my department is a very supportive place where grad students look out for each other. We take extra efforts to point out each other's ideas and successes to other people in our department and ensure that people get credit where credit is due. Because of this, I feel that it is very easy for us to just walk into each other's offices and talk about current problems and come up with solutions together. I always offer my perspective and advice when asked and I feel that others are also eager to help me too (whether it's how to write a piece of code, how to perform a statistical analysis, how to phrase a particular sentence, or even just general proofreading). I feel that we are all invested in each other's success and I think that's an important part of a good grad school experience. Academia is already a tough enough place that I want to know that my colleagues always have my back. 

 

The above advice was generally "avoid Person B" but if you want to go and do something, maybe you can work on improving the grad student community in your lab/hallway/department (whatever size/scale makes sense). Some ideas on what you can do are: 1) start a once-a-week coffee break with free donuts or something to get people together and talking/collaborating more (maybe you can get funding); 2) start a regular discussion group to talk about recent developments in your field and to bounce ideas off one another; 3) start a tradition of senior students helping the junior ones prepare for comps/quals/candidacy etc. 

 

Maybe the general atmosphere is already really good and it's really only Person B that is the problem. But if you are worried that Person B represents a trend/decline of cooperation in your department, perhaps some of these "community building" things can make a difference!

[Eigen]

I'll also add that I've seen cases where person A has a very general idea that they never follow up on, and person B gets interested, does research, refines it, and then gets accused of stealing the "idea". 

 

An idea, in my opinion, has to be fairly well refined to be owned- and not just refined, but you actually have to have intent and interest in following up on the idea. 

 

Additionally, as partly echoed above, it's not alway the intent of a collaborator to steal an idea. Ideas evolve fast, and we don't alway remember where the initial impetus came from- it may have been a conversation, or that conversation may have sparked an interest in the general field, and we began formulating a similar idea as we read more. 

[St Andrews Lynx]

I'm sorry you're in an environment like that, OP. 

 

The only advice I can give is that you avoid discussing research with this individual and limit the amount of interactions you have with them. It doesn't mean being rude, but don't hang around chatting to them.

 

Think about ways to secure your physical & online data so that it is kept safe when you aren't around, and that there's a solid paper trail. As others have advised, have a discreet word with the PI to at least let them know what is going on. 

[harrisonfjord]

Thank you all for your input. It has all been really valuable.

 

This isn't just a general idea that we discussed. The case is more of what TakeruK stated, this individual is taking my ideas that we discuss in the lab for the design of a study, and is parroting them to the PI rest of the lab. Then from there, because he is the lab manager, he "removed" me from that project and tasked me with something else to do. I am also 5th author on a paper that I wrote the entire discussion for, despite the fact that when we had the authorship conversation, I was originally going to be third author. I am getting really fed up with this abuse of authority essentially. I was going to talk to my PI, but since I have no email or written records to prove the conversations we had, and the already existing designs I developed, there is no way for me to "prove" that these were my ideas. The worst part is that I'm a master's student and this student recently graduated with his undergraduate degree, and will not officially be working as a graduate student until fall. It's like he seems to find pleasure in the fact that he can order me around and take my ideas with no repercussions. He's a shady person.

Edited April 2, 2015 by harrisonfjord

[TakeruK]

That's a crappy thing for that person to do. I think at this point, the best thing to do is to stop talking science to this person. Also, if you feel it's an okay thing to do, I think you should push a little further on the authorship for that paper already written (if it's not already submitted). Mention that you were 3rd author in the original discussion. If you get pushback, I would stand down but then request that future collaborations have a written, signed authorship agreement prior to major work in the project. That is, I would only push a little on the already written paper so that your lab agrees to have written authorship agreements in the future. 

 

It's up to you if you want to pursue this path though. If these agreements are not standard in your field, then you might be breaking the norms too much and it might not be worth it. For my field, while these contracts are not the norm, they are also not so rare/weird that anyone would object to them (my first project involved a complicated authorship contract). Also, in my field, 3rd author is a huge difference over 5th author, because some citation systems use "1st, 2nd, 3rd et al." 

[Maxtini]

Thank you all for your input. It has all been really valuable.

 

This isn't just a general idea that we discussed. The case is more of what TakeruK stated, this individual is taking my ideas that we discuss in the lab for the design of a study, and is parroting them to the PI rest of the lab. Then from there, because he is the lab manager, he "removed" me from that project and tasked me with something else to do. I am also 5th author on a paper that I wrote the entire discussion for, despite the fact that when we had the authorship conversation, I was originally going to be third author. I am getting really fed up with this abuse of authority essentially. I was going to talk to my PI, but since I have no email or written records to prove the conversations we had, and the already existing designs I developed, there is no way for me to "prove" that these were my ideas. The worst part is that I'm a master's student and this student recently graduated with his undergraduate degree, and will not officially be working as a graduate student until fall. It's like he seems to find pleasure in the fact that he can order me around and take my ideas with no repercussions. He's a shady person.

When you want to formulate your idea or asking someone about their opinion, make sure that you made it publicly known (to all members in your lab) that you're the one pursuing that idea first. You don't need to talk about that in details, just some vague idea to make sure everyone takes a hint. This way, when someone in your lab try to "steal" or "hijack" your idea, you will be better positioned to defend yourself.

 

Never, ever talk about your idea to someone in private, even to your PI before that happen. That is from my own experience.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Maxtini

[TakeruK]

When you want to formulate your idea or asking someone about their opinion, make sure that you made it publicly known (to all members in your lab) that you're the one pursuing that idea first. You don't need to talk about that in details, just some vague idea to make sure everyone takes a hint. This way, when someone in your lab try to "steal" or "hijack" your idea, you will be better positioned to defend yourself.

 

Never, ever talk about your idea to someone in private, even to your PI before that happen. That is from my own experience.

 

It could really depend on field here, but I don't think this is a good idea in mine. Conversations are easily forgotten and people can easily confuse who said what. Also, if these conversations with your group are not recorded somewhere, then there's no way to confirm this later if a dispute does come up. And finally, not everyone "takes a hint" the same way, especially if working with people from different backgrounds/experiences. 

 

Instead, I would recommend that you formulate ideas via email. However, if you feel that someone in your group might steal ideas, then perhaps not collaborating with them is the best bet. I don't think I would enjoy working with people that will steal ideas!

[Eigen]

Just for the record, having proof that an idea was yours will do you very little good in the long run. 

 

Journals really don't care who originated the idea, it's the first person to get a publishable manuscript in. 

 

It's why many research groups won't present findings at meetings that are unpublished/not close to publication. I've had friends present unpublished data at a conference, have someone snap pictures of their poster, take the idea and push it through to publication first. 

 

An email record can be nice for, say, convincing your PI that you thought of the idea, but in the broader community it really won't do any good. 

 

Sharing ideas is always a calculated risk... Someone might take your work. Someone might take an idea and develop it. Share ideas with the people you trust, and work with good collaborators. Getting scooped happens. It sucks, but you move on.

[ss2player]

Just for the record, having proof that an idea was yours will do you very little good in the long run. 

 

Journals really don't care who originated the idea, it's the first person to get a publishable manuscript in. 

 

It's why many research groups won't present findings at meetings that are unpublished/not close to publication. I've had friends present unpublished data at a conference, have someone snap pictures of their poster, take the idea and push it through to publication first. 

 

An email record can be nice for, say, convincing your PI that you thought of the idea, but in the broader community it really won't do any good. 

 

Sharing ideas is always a calculated risk... Someone might take your work. Someone might take an idea and develop it. Share ideas with the people you trust, and work with good collaborators. Getting scooped happens. It sucks, but you move on.

 

Accidental downvote click! I actually really agree with this, as I've naively been very open about my ideas in the past and the other folks benefited HARD. Nowadays, when trying to collaborate, I'm very vague about my ideas until it comes time for the nitty-gritty. Then I draft a formal proposal and have them look it over and we all sign it. Obviously it's not a legally binding document, and if something is very promising I'd suggest trying to get a patent first!

[Eigen]

Yeah, we play patents very close to the chest, with a preliminary patent application filed at the same time as the first publication submission, with no presentations of "useful" material on the project until that point. 

[rising_star]

There was a guest post today on Tenure, She Wrote that addresses the topic of having one's work stolen. People may want to check it out since it discusses the lasting career impact the theft of one's ideas early on can have. In the author's case, this theft occurred early while she was on the tenure-track but, I don't see why the consequences wouldn't also be true of someone in graduate school. https://tenureshewrote.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/guest-post-when-its-not-just-students-who-plagiarize/

 

I think the takeaways are to be careful with your ideas and work, to be cautious about presenting novel work at a conference and then not getting it published quickly, and to be wary of your colleagues and their interest in your ideas.

[TakeruK]

When I read that Tenure, She Wrote blogpost, I thought of this thread too!